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My Nuts Are Flat
Apr 18, 2002
18,045
0
Towing the party line.
i ordered my demo frame in early october, i was told it would be here in late october. i talked to the shop yesterday (east coast) and they said there is no sign of it coming. i know its not riding season or anything, but i also ordered a p3 frame, which i planned on using through out the winter, there is also no sign of that. maybe im just over anxious, but its starting to irritate me.
You knew it was the bike industry, and "2 weeks" is the standard answer. You also knew this would probably be the most popular DH frame of 2011... what did you think would happen?
 

Inclag

Turbo Monkey
Sep 9, 2001
2,326
46
MA
You knew it was the bike industry, and "2 weeks" is the standard answer. You also knew this would probably be the most popular DH frame of 2011... what did you think would happen?
Maybe it's because there's 2 feet of snow out right now and I haven't mountain biked since May, so even though there has been a delay, at least it has been for us here in the Northern Hemisphere where it is typically winter for most folks. If the delayed orders turn into middle of the riding season Pre-Stickman Intense, Santa Cruz, Iron Horse, or Turner delays, then I'll quietly go into the corner and insert foot in mouth.

It's a bit of a bummer for sure, but at this point I don't quantify the delay as one that parallels some others I've seen in the past.
 

FOXROX

Turbo Monkey
Jun 23, 2007
2,119
0
hambur,nj
You knew it was the bike industry, and "2 weeks" is the standard answer. You also knew this would probably be the most popular DH frame of 2011... what did you think would happen?
i dont think "the bike industry" is a very good excuse. 3 months is pushing it, especially when there is no sign of it anywhere, im assuming it will be at least another month. that means i have an entire park bike in my basement minus a frame, pretty much ruins my winter..... but then again the industry doesn't revolve around me... which i understand... but still.
 

ianjenn

Turbo Monkey
Sep 12, 2006
2,486
283
SLO
i dont think "the bike industry" is a very good excuse. 3 months is pushing it, especially when there is no sign of it anywhere, im assuming it will be at least another month. that means i have an entire park bike in my basement minus a frame, pretty much ruins my winter..... but then again the industry doesn't revolve around me... which i understand... but still.
HAHAHAAH it is not a Bugatti for crying out loud!
 

Transcend

My Nuts Are Flat
Apr 18, 2002
18,045
0
Towing the party line.
i dont think "the bike industry" is a very good excuse. 3 months is pushing it, especially when there is no sign of it anywhere, im assuming it will be at least another month. that means i have an entire park bike in my basement minus a frame, pretty much ruins my winter..... but then again the industry doesn't revolve around me... which i understand... but still.
3 months for a bike being built and shipped from asia, labeled as a 2011 model, is too much? Last I checked, it isn't 2011 yet.
 

jonKranked

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Nov 10, 2005
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also, I'm pretty sure that Specialized sells far, far, more road bikes than they do mountain bikes. Wouldn't surprise me one bit if, in terms of production, road bikes are priority over mountain.
 

jonKranked

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Nov 10, 2005
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Actually, I'm pretty sure $375 hardrock's and hybrids take precedence over anything else. Low end bikes = highest profit margins; by far.
Thanks for pointing this one out Fras. Bread and butter items go without saying. Should have noted that my comment was in regards to high end offerings. Doesn't change my point though, in that there are other items that take priority.
 

jonKranked

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Nov 10, 2005
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i dont think "the bike industry" is a very good excuse. 3 months is pushing it, especially when there is no sign of it anywhere, im assuming it will be at least another month. that means i have an entire park bike in my basement minus a frame, pretty much ruins my winter..... but then again the industry doesn't revolve around me... which i understand... but still.
I'm sure if you called around you could find a shop or company that would be able to get you set up with a hardtail park frame. Had you already put money down for the p3 with the LBS? If no, couldn't you just cancel it?
 

FOXROX

Turbo Monkey
Jun 23, 2007
2,119
0
hambur,nj
I'm sure if you called around you could find a shop or company that would be able to get you set up with a hardtail park frame. Had you already put money down for the p3 with the LBS? If no, couldn't you just cancel it?
riding out of a spesh shop. im not going to pay for something else, when i get it at cost.
 

BOOMSLANG

Chimp
Apr 6, 2009
95
0
Morgan Hill
Both framesets and complete bicycles have came and went worldwide. Demand has vastly exceeded supply. Of course there are more in the pipeline. Sorry that we couldn't meet everyone's hopes and needs with the first shipment.

Jason C
 

FOXROX

Turbo Monkey
Jun 23, 2007
2,119
0
hambur,nj
Both framesets and complete bicycles have came and went worldwide. Demand has vastly exceeded supply. Of course there are more in the pipeline. Sorry that we couldn't meet everyone's hopes and needs with the first shipment.

Jason C
any idea on the second shipment?
 

mtg

Green with Envy
Sep 21, 2009
1,479
828
Denver, CO
i dont think "the bike industry" is a very good excuse. 3 months is pushing it, especially when there is no sign of it anywhere, im assuming it will be at least another month. that means i have an entire park bike in my basement minus a frame, pretty much ruins my winter..... but then again the industry doesn't revolve around me... which i understand... but still.
If they tell you "late October", it's fair for you to expect it to show up around late October. End of December with "no sign" does not equal "late October. The bike industry needs to get with the program and learn how to give realistic time line estimates.

Now, back to that BB. BB30 is not a "pressfit BB", there's no cup in a BB30. The bearings slip fit into the shell, and are held in place by a combination of snap rings and axial preload from the crank (so it seems). Does anybody have any pics of this adapter that comes with the frame? I'm thinking it's basically a flanged reducer.
 

jvnixon

Turbo Monkey
May 14, 2006
2,325
0
SickLines.com
Now, back to that BB. BB30 is not a "pressfit BB", there's no cup in a BB30. The bearings slip fit into the shell, and are held in place by a combination of snap rings and axial preload from the crank (so it seems). Does anybody have any pics of this adapter that comes with the frame? I'm thinking it's basically a flanged reducer.
You are correct, it is not a BB30. It is a Pressfit 30 (PF30) BB. Here is a shot of the stock PF-30 bb adapter that is installed in a demo 8 that comes with the frame.



See more - http://www.sicklines.com/2010/08/11/video-2011-specialized-demo-8-details/
 

Inclag

Turbo Monkey
Sep 9, 2001
2,326
46
MA
If they tell you "late October", it's fair for you to expect it to show up around late October. End of December with "no sign" does not equal "late October. The bike industry needs to get with the program and learn how to give realistic time line estimates.
If you could make with the precision what you consider "realistic" timeline estimates on Chinese/Taiwanese manufactured parts, you would probably be making a good bit of money.

So far, with how Specialized has managed this as far as the time of year it is up here in the states and the deviation from the original ETA, I would consider this acceptable for the consumer.

Unacceptable in my mind is them missing a target and getting burned by the Chinese New Year, or delivering during what is generally accepted as the riding season.
 

FOXROX

Turbo Monkey
Jun 23, 2007
2,119
0
hambur,nj
If you could make with the precision what you consider "realistic" timeline estimates on Chinese/Taiwanese manufactured parts, you would probably be making a good bit of money.

So far, with how Specialized has managed this as far as the time of year it is up here in the states and the deviation from the original ETA, I would consider this acceptable for the consumer.

Unacceptable in my mind is them missing a target and getting burned by the Chinese New Year, or delivering during what is generally accepted as the riding season.
being in north nj, we dont really get to much snow (although we just got a foot the other day, but lets not get into that) i could potentially be riding for 9-10 months out of the year. is that not still considered my riding season ? its not like anything can be done, im not mad, just anxious to have it built. having all these parts sitting here with no frame it torture.
 

demo 9

Turbo Monkey
Jan 31, 2007
5,911
45
north jersey
I hate to jump on the mad at spesh bandwagon, but i agree with foxrox and a few others. I dont understand why its late october (and i was told mid sept) Only to have it be january with no sign of them. I neither will be able to ride it, but i dont understand why the bike industry can just say, whenever we get to it, and everybody says ok. If a pipe bursts in my house, the plumber cant say "two weeks" because its the plumbing industry. Same deal with cars/trucks. I waited 3 months for my truck, but it was put on the list of "to build" and started withing a few days of me ordering it. (and you will get an american truck in half the time)

I like spesh, i have owned 6-7 of their bikes at this point, but i still dont understand why they can say, "we make bikes, we can take our time" If it takes "X" months to make frames, tell people X months and than a little bit for some wiggle room. Granted, spesh IS better than alot of other companys (hint hint DW-DHR) but still, make a release date thats almost close to accurate, or at least provide an excuse.
 

mtg

Green with Envy
Sep 21, 2009
1,479
828
Denver, CO
You are correct, it is not a BB30. It is a Pressfit 30 (PF30) BB. Here is a shot of the stock PF-30 bb adapter that is installed in a demo 8 that comes with the frame.
Ahhh, thanks. I misread the Spesh website as saying it had a "custom BB-30 DH". Woops, that would explain my confusion.

Either way, it looks like a better design than threaded cups with outboard bearings, imo.

And, about time lines: I understand that almost all bike companies have overseas suppliers. But, that's no excuse. If you have an unreliable supplier in your supply chain, you need to account for that in your ETA's.
 

jonKranked

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Nov 10, 2005
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Just out of curiosity, what are you using to base that assertion?

Jason C
several years working in shops. everything from the college town shop where the bulk of bike sales were hybrids and some low end mtb (trek 820's, etc) to high end shops where they kept numerous high end road bikes on the floor (high end stuff: madones, s-works, c-dale, a few serottas, and cervelo) because they would sell regularly. ...just overall sales; high end road sales just crushed high end mtb, both in number of units moved and overall sale $. and it wasn't like we didn't have high end mtb offerings (shop was an intense dealer too) or the town didn't have an active mtb community. this wasn't some small shop either, at any given time the inventory of bikes was $1-2 million, and was one of the largest trek dealers in its state.
 

jonKranked

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Nov 10, 2005
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I hate to jump on the mad at spesh bandwagon, but i agree with foxrox and a few others. I dont understand why its late october (and i was told mid sept) Only to have it be january with no sign of them. I neither will be able to ride it, but i dont understand why the bike industry can just say, whenever we get to it, and everybody says ok. If a pipe bursts in my house, the plumber cant say "two weeks" because its the plumbing industry. Same deal with cars/trucks. I waited 3 months for my truck, but it was put on the list of "to build" and started withing a few days of me ordering it. (and you will get an american truck in half the time)

I like spesh, i have owned 6-7 of their bikes at this point, but i still dont understand why they can say, "we make bikes, we can take our time" If it takes "X" months to make frames, tell people X months and than a little bit for some wiggle room. Granted, spesh IS better than alot of other companys (hint hint DW-DHR) but still, make a release date thats almost close to accurate, or at least provide an excuse.
dont like it, then take your business elsewhere. last i checked there are quite a few companies that make high end downhill race bikes.


would you rather them rush production, and put out frames that could have any of a number of issues, or take their the time to make sure everything is made right?


also, the plumber comparison is apples to oranges. you're comparing a retail product manufacturer to a service provider. with the truck comparison, you're dealing with manufacturers who have much, much greater capacity.
 
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Tom L

Chimp
Dec 29, 2010
12
0
Both framesets and complete bicycles have came and went worldwide. Demand has vastly exceeded supply. Of course there are more in the pipeline. Sorry that we couldn't meet everyone's hopes and needs with the first shipment.

Jason C
With all due respect, saying demand vastly exceeded supply seems like big under estimate by Spesh. As mentioned, the 2011 Demo 8 is one of the hottest new frames, surely there is a better way to estimate demand? I ordered my 2011 demo frameset in October, and (foolishly) sold my DH frame as the ETA for the new frames was so near. Now hopefully my frame (A large from the first UK batch) should be arriving this week, I appreciate your communication and apology, I am just trying to give a bit of feedback on how it could be handled better in the future :thumb:
 

jonKranked

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Nov 10, 2005
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With all due respect, saying demand vastly exceeded supply seems like big under estimate by Spesh. As mentioned, the 2011 Demo 8 is one of the hottest new frames, surely there is a better way to estimate demand?
sales forecasting is a fickle field. forecast too aggressively and you risk having excess inventory - money invested in product that can't sell - and may ultimately wind up being sold at a loss. Forecast not aggressively enough, and demand will exceed supply. If this is the case, there are options, one of which is to conduct an additional product run of products to meet demand.
 

TheTruth

Turbo Monkey
Jun 15, 2009
3,903
0
I'm waving. Can you see me now?
i ordered my demo frame in early october, i was told it would be here in late october. i talked to the shop yesterday (east coast) and they said there is no sign of it coming. i know its not riding season or anything, but i also ordered a p3 frame, which i planned on using through out the winter, there is also no sign of that. maybe im just over anxious, but its starting to irritate me.
Dude! I thought you got a sick deal with intense. Why don't you just ask them for a frame?
 

Tom L

Chimp
Dec 29, 2010
12
0
sales forecasting is a fickle field. forecast too aggressively and you risk having excess inventory - money invested in product that can't sell - and may ultimately wind up being sold at a loss. Forecast not aggressively enough, and demand will exceed supply. If this is the case, there are options, one of which is to conduct an additional product run of products to meet demand.
Granted, I totally agree, maybe a better way to deal with demand though?
 

captainspauldin

intrigued by a pole
May 14, 2007
1,146
71
Jersey Shore
sales forecasting is a fickle field. forecast too aggressively and you risk having excess inventory - money invested in product that can't sell - and may ultimately wind up being sold at a loss. Forecast not aggressively enough, and demand will exceed supply. If this is the case, there are options, one of which is to conduct an additional product run of products to meet demand.
Yeap, buddy of mine got a NOS '06-07 S-works enduro(forget exactly what year) for dirt cheap a year or 2 back because of bad forecast on Spec's part. With the whole "economy in the sh*tter" mentality I'm sure Specialized didn't wanna dig themselves into a hole with a overly optimistic forecast. Same buddy had the '10 Demo in september/october '09, so I don't really think Specialized was planning on the demand being so high.
 

IH8Rice

I'm Mr. Negative! I Fail!
Aug 2, 2008
24,554
487
Im over here now
forecast was conservatively low. allocation is tight. demand is high.

i see nothing wrong with that on Specialized's side. it of course does make customers upset, yet they will still probably wait.
 

Transcend

My Nuts Are Flat
Apr 18, 2002
18,045
0
Towing the party line.
With all due respect, saying demand vastly exceeded supply seems like big under estimate by Spesh. As mentioned, the 2011 Demo 8 is one of the hottest new frames, surely there is a better way to estimate demand? I ordered my 2011 demo frameset in October, and (foolishly) sold my DH frame as the ETA for the new frames was so near. Now hopefully my frame (A large from the first UK batch) should be arriving this week, I appreciate your communication and apology, I am just trying to give a bit of feedback on how it could be handled better in the future :thumb:
Production numbers are put in VERY early in the year. The production slot for X bike is mapped out well in advance and is based on last year's sales and projections for the upcoming year.

This is done months before they won 2 world championships, pushing demand through the roof.
 

EVIL JN

Monkey
Jul 24, 2009
486
18
After what happend to some Evil customers a i have made a policy for myself to not sell my current frame before i have the new one in my hand. It really doesnt matter what kind of excuse/apology a company give you no matter how relevant they may be since in the end it sucks not being able to ride. I got mine in early dec and except for a alignment issue on the stay to the shock yoke which is being taken care of i am really stoked on the frame.
 
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