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2011 Intense M9 -vs- 2012 Canfield Jedi -vs- older 2008 Foes DHS 2.1

ChrisRobin

Turbo Monkey
Jan 30, 2002
2,996
55
Vancouver
I know how people don't necessarily like these threads but I haven't been on ridemonkey in a while, so I can be excused.... ;) Plus in good ol' Ridemonkey tradition, this thread might end up as a cluster of e-engineering, e-nerding and e-bashing, and that's always entertaining when that happens.

So I've realized my initial idea of finding something lower budget to get me back in DH was pointless. I might as well just jump back in with something newer. I've run across the following that tickle my fancy and I'd like to see what people think (It'll be for Whistler next season btw and I also know these bikes are somewhat different from eachother):

2011 or 2012 medium Intense M9 (demo bike):
-Yeah I know about all the adjustments and I think that's great! Should be able to last a long time regardless of what new trends start showing up in the next couple years in the sport because of all the adjustments. Plus maximum of 9.5" travel; like Bullcrew said: 'trophy truck'. The parts list is really good. Nothing to upgrade...for now.

2012 large Canfield Jedi (lightly used):
-Love these things. With a large, I think it'll be good for Whistler: still stable (not as much as the M9) and really nimble. I loved my BB7 back in the day and I liked the whole rearward arc of the wheel. Will have to throw on an angleset to slacken it out a bit. Again, a bike that could last a long time with its 8.5 travel and rearward travel. Again, parts list is awesome and nothing to upgrade.

*Btw, this one is roughly $300 more than the M9, not counting the angleset*


Last but not least...

2008 medium Foes DHS 2.1 Mono "yes I know it's old" (needs to be cleaned up a bit and modernized):
-Always had an eye for these. 10" of travel of plow-ability. The geometry isn't all that bad either. Throw on a 1-1/8 adjustable headset with 1 degree slacker, that'll be on par with newer bikes. This Foes is much cheaper but that will open up the budget to:
-new powder coat and stickers
-pick up a cheap boxxer/40/888 and put in an Avalanche cartridge
-new bits and pieces (handle bars, stem, grips, drivetrain, front wheel to match...etc etc etc).
-helmet, armour and maybe even the Whistler season pass!

All in all, the Foes would come out cheaper than the M9 or Jedi. Oh, it's just the Curnutt shock that scares me. I don't like the whole platform idea. I've already asked Craig if he could make a custom shock and he said no (I would have to work on him).

So yeah... thanks in advance!
 

Inclag

Turbo Monkey
Sep 9, 2001
2,325
46
MA
Foes without a doubt, but screw repainting it.

Why? Most all modern dh bikes kick ass when set up properly and you can save a ton of money which will let you ride and have a ****-ton of fun. Just make sure you get your suspension and controls setup well and get a cache of good tires.
 

IH8Rice

I'm Mr. Negative! I Fail!
Aug 2, 2008
24,554
487
Im over here now
i had a 2007 DHS (same as the '08) and have a '10 M9 now and its really hard to compare the two. even with an angelset of some sort and the adjustable shock eyelet, the Foes's geometry isnt really up to "modern" standards but will still perform fine. its an extremely tall bike and with it's stock HA it is a VERY nimble bike for how large it is....but that can be said for any Foes that ive had. they are built like a tank and can take a beating (trust me.) i kept the bike around when i went through all my Revolt issues and used it as a back up bike when i didnt have a frame for months.
yeah it can be considered a "plow" bike, but with it being so nimble, you can pick and choose your lines pretty damn well.
i was also extremely pleased with the coil Curnutt. it performed very well and didnt give me any problems..dare i say i liked it more then the RC4 WC i had. the Curnutt Air i had performed fairly close but had some stiction to overcome in it's initial stroke. Craig at Avy wont touch them and i wouldnt consider putting a "custom" shock on there (making something with a 16"ish i-t-i would probably cost a ton too.)

the M9 seems offers a ton of adjustments (most arent necessary,) pedals great and is very firmly planted on the ground. with it being so slack, it really isnt as nimble as the DHS but if you change your riding style, you can compensate for that.

i love them both but i am ready for a new bike so im getting the new Hydro at the end of the year.


the setups were fairly similar

 

ChrisRobin

Turbo Monkey
Jan 30, 2002
2,996
55
Vancouver
Well this is a start.... thanks so far

As far as the Foes goes, I just checked the updated website and it still shows the DHS at 14.9" BB height. I'm wondering if the M9 sits high in its travel while the Foes is meant to sag a little more??
 
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ChrisRobin

Turbo Monkey
Jan 30, 2002
2,996
55
Vancouver
That's what I was thinking... what's turning me off is having to get my hands on new springs. Ti springs will be stupid expensive and then it'll become a question of getting steel springs. Ah we'll see...
 

invol2ver

Chimp
Aug 23, 2010
65
0
jedi. that thing gives you the confidence to take lines you have never taken. it's just so smooth through the rough.
 

norbar

Turbo Monkey
Jun 7, 2007
9,496
314
Warsaw :/
That's what I was thinking... what's turning me off is having to get my hands on new springs. Ti springs will be stupid expensive and then it'll become a question of getting steel springs. Ah we'll see...
To be honest unless you go cash to spare or a deal screw ti springs. The weight saving is big but since it's centralized it's not noticeable and very expensive if you pay msrp.
 

descente

Monkey
Jul 30, 2010
430
0
Sandy Eggo
the m9 is without a doubt one of the raddest bikes ever. i think the real point behind all the adjustability is that you can adapt it more to YOUR style vs constantly changing it for different courses. find what works, set it, forget it, shred!

h8rice, why does your back tire look like a 650? looks huge compared to the front
 

nowlan

Monkey
Jul 30, 2008
496
2
Well this is a start.... thanks so far

As far as the Foes goes, I just checked the updated website and it still shows the DHS at 14.9" BB height. I'm wondering if the M9 sits high in its travel while the Foes is meant to sag a little more??
VPP is meant to sit low in its travel.
 

blackohio

Generous jaywalker
Mar 12, 2009
2,797
120
Hellafornia. Formerly stumptown.
the jedi is an awesome bike, but I've never ridden an M9 so I cant compare the two. Ive done the Sunday>Revolt>Jedi>One Ghost Musashi>Undead path with my DH bikes.

The Jedi and Musashi felt the best through the rough, The sunday, Revolt and Undead felt the liveliest and most fun.

The jedi is downright fas through things that tend to slow bikes down.
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
15,829
938
01776
sounds to me like you want the foes but you can't figure out how to make it work for you. that makes me think you should stick with a newer bike. The worst idea for pretty much any mountain bike ever is proprietary gear. Nothing is worse than being stuck with the only one of something for 700 miles in any direction.

I really like the foes, i think it's a cool bike and I love that it's made in the US by people, but they stuck with that curnutt idea and it just wasn't a good one compared to other shock options. Plus, the 2:1 concept is debatable.

Tell your heart to shut up and buy the m9...that's my opinion...unless you can confirm that the spring rate and shock damping will suit your style and you'll never want to change it.
 

ChrisRobin

Turbo Monkey
Jan 30, 2002
2,996
55
Vancouver
Yeah... well the Jedi is most likely out because having that thing brought into Canada from the US is expensive. I just got off the phone with Canada Border Services and I'd have to pay 13% tax, plus 13% duty. Since the Canfield frames aren't made in the US, NAFTA goes out the window. That sucks...

The M9 is local in BC (where I live) and the DHS 2.1 is local in Montreal (where I am now visiting friends and family).
 

ChrisRobin

Turbo Monkey
Jan 30, 2002
2,996
55
Vancouver
That was the plan. Go down, pay the dude and then throw it in the car and drive back... but I'd still have to tell the border guards how much it was and where it's made. Best case scenario is I only play 13% taxes. Worse case (and usually with our Canadian border guards, worse case is always the case), I get taxed the 13% PLUS another 13% because it's made in Taiwan. That option doesn't really make sense to me.
 
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ChrisRobin

Turbo Monkey
Jan 30, 2002
2,996
55
Vancouver
i had a 2007 DHS (same as the '08) and have a '10 M9 now and its really hard to compare the two. even with an angelset of some sort and the adjustable shock eyelet, the Foes's geometry isnt really up to "modern" standards but will still perform fine. its an extremely tall bike and with it's stock HA it is a VERY nimble bike for how large it is....but that can be said for any Foes that ive had. they are built like a tank and can take a beating (trust me.) i kept the bike around when i went through all my Revolt issues and used it as a back up bike when i didnt have a frame for months.
yeah it can be considered a "plow" bike, but with it being so nimble, you can pick and choose your lines pretty damn well.
i was also extremely pleased with the coil Curnutt. it performed very well and didnt give me any problems..dare i say i liked it more then the RC4 WC i had. the Curnutt Air i had performed fairly close but had some stiction to overcome in it's initial stroke. Craig at Avy wont touch them and i wouldnt consider putting a "custom" shock on there (making something with a 16"ish i-t-i would probably cost a ton too.)
Thanks for the info... I'll be calling Craig this week anyway to order a cartridge for my Fox 36 RC2 and I'll ask him what he knows about the internals of the Curnutt. Also, from what I understand, Foes can still 'tune' the shock based on rider weight and terrain.
 
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blackohio

Generous jaywalker
Mar 12, 2009
2,797
120
Hellafornia. Formerly stumptown.
drive across without a bike on, re-enter with bike on roof rack, when asked what you did in the us by your agents, say "i went to ride port angeles, or some other trail"

make no mention of buying the bike and re-enter like a boss.
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
15,829
938
01776
for the US, there's a certain level below which you get an exemption on duty. So, if I were to head to canada eh and buy a $2500 bike, I'd pay duty on $500. There may be something similar for Canada, sorry.

Regardless, I'd give it a shot as blechohio suggested above...it's a used bike, how can you pay duty on a used item...

But yeah, another thing to note is the lifetime of the items you're buying. I have a hard time buying anything that comes from BC as the use that the item undergoes is probably harder and longer than virtually 99% of other locales....so moontrail might be a better place to grab it.
 

ChrisRobin

Turbo Monkey
Jan 30, 2002
2,996
55
Vancouver
Well I just got off the phone with the CBSA (Canada Border Services Agency) to confirm what I was suspecting...

I explained to the officer the situation and she confirmed I'd have to pay taxes on a 'used mountain bike'.

Then she asked where it was made: I said "designed in the US, but made overseas."....She said: "Ewwwwwww...."

She told me I'd have to pay duty on the full amount regardless if it's used or not, and regardless on the cost of the item.

Damn....

Now why don't they make **** in Mexico??!?!
 

slyfink

Turbo Monkey
Sep 16, 2008
5,809
1,600
Ottawa, Canada
But yeah, another thing to note is the lifetime of the items you're buying. I have a hard time buying anything that comes from BC as the use that the item undergoes is probably harder and longer than virtually 99% of other locales....so moontrail might be a better place to grab it.
the thing with Montreal is, the bikes have likely been ridden in Bromont and Mt Ste Anne. Both of those places are murder on bikes. Not only because of the terrain, but also because we get lots of water mixing with the decomposing granite. Other close-by mountains are Whiteface and other New England mountains, which are also pretty hard on bikes.

If the bike hasn't been ridden too much, they yeah, I agree with Sammwich. But there is the possibility of really ragged rigs 'round here too....
 

ChrisRobin

Turbo Monkey
Jan 30, 2002
2,996
55
Vancouver
Good point... I remember riding a lot at Bromont and yup, it can get rough. When I first rode at Whistler, I couldn't believe how well groomed things were. Compared to Whistler, all the 'eastcoast' trails look like someone cut some trees down in the forest and said "there you go...".

This M9 I'm referring to is a demo bike. So it shouldn't have been beaten.
 

IH8Rice

I'm Mr. Negative! I Fail!
Aug 2, 2008
24,554
487
Im over here now
h8rice, why does your back tire look like a 650? looks huge compared to the front
:clue:

Also, from what I understand, Foes can still 'tune' the shock based on rider weight and terrain.
yeah. they can tune it however you like and possibly exchange springs for you (that have for me in the past.)
i used a 175# spring when i weighed 215# and had it
This M9 I'm referring to is a demo bike. So it shouldn't have been beaten.
:rofl:
 
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joelsman

Turbo Monkey
Feb 1, 2002
1,369
0
B'ham
i know many people who have bought bikes or sold bikes across the border. bring gear with you, tell them you are going to test ride a bike(or shopping), then on the way back say you went for a ride at a nearby trail..

even new bikes have been taken into canada, just with a little mud added. no taxes.
 

Gurney

Chimp
Jan 14, 2010
32
0
Yeah... well the Jedi is most likely out because having that thing brought into Canada from the US is expensive. I just got off the phone with Canada Border Services and I'd have to pay 13% tax, plus 13% duty. Since the Canfield frames aren't made in the US, NAFTA goes out the window. That sucks...

The M9 is local in BC (where I live) and the DHS 2.1 is local in Montreal (where I am now visiting friends and family).
I purchased my Jedi direct and had it shipped to the LBS in Saskatoon. I used all their information for shipping and had no extra charges upon arrival. Maybe a friend in the right place can help you out because the bike is fantastic and the company is almost better.
 

ChrisRobin

Turbo Monkey
Jan 30, 2002
2,996
55
Vancouver
Yeah I know it can be done and it's tempting... It's just not an option for me given the line of work I'm in the Vancouver area.

Buying the Jedi would be a private thing. No LBS that I can deal with.

Thanks for all the input though!
 
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demo 9

Turbo Monkey
Jan 31, 2007
5,911
45
north jersey
Smuggle it in, the jedi is worth it, Proud owner of 3, its unreal in the rough and the chatter-gets built up pretty light too if your into that sorta thing.

 

Pegboy

Turbo Monkey
Jan 20, 2003
1,137
21
New Hamp-sha
I'm about to pull the trigger on a bike for my son with a seller in BC who would be shipping it to New Hampshire. Are the issues with tax and import fees the same coming in to the US? It's a private seller so I am hoping this would be no different than a relative sending me something..wishful thinking?
 

ChrisRobin

Turbo Monkey
Jan 30, 2002
2,996
55
Vancouver
I'm about to pull the trigger on a bike for my son with a seller in BC who would be shipping it to New Hampshire. Are the issues with tax and import fees the same coming in to the US? It's a private seller so I am hoping this would be no different than a relative sending me something..wishful thinking?
I'm not sure... call your border agency and they'll be able to tell you right away. I bet it's easier bringing something in as the Canadian gov't doesn't like to do anything that makes sense.
 

demo 9

Turbo Monkey
Jan 31, 2007
5,911
45
north jersey
Not that i have crossed into/out of canada, but why not just have no receipt and leave the bike in your car when you drive back in? Its not like they check for the receipt of your other stuff, like your car, bags and other stuff. Dont they have to prove that your bringing it in, rather than you proving your not.
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
15,829
938
01776
It's sounds like ripping off customs is not really an option for CR. I suggest therefore that you hold out a bit longer and see what comes around at the end of the season. There are usually a few more bikes that pop up that are worth checking out. I still like the demo intense, personally, but if you have your heart set on the foes, I think it would be a fun bike too.