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Evo.

Chimp
Feb 5, 2011
35
0
Pittsburgh
I am new to DH and I have a small "hook-up" at my local Trek dealer.

Main question, is the Session 8 worth the extra $1k over the Kona Operator DH? Both bikes have the same forks and rear shocks.

What would you choose?

Thanks!
 

aham73

Chimp
Jan 28, 2011
29
0
Philadelphia/ San Francisco
I've got a 2011 Session 8, and while I haven't spent much time on it yet, it performs very well. The ground was wet and snowy so I could only really ride XC with it...Which sounds absurd, but I rode a 39 lb 8" travel bike on an XC loop with no problems. Sure I walked it up the big climbs but still, it pedaled very well in the saddle, and even out. Was trying to get the fork and shock a bit more dialed in, but it was 32 degrees out and brand new. No biggie.

Never been very fond of Kona bikes, as the frames don't seem as stiff and well designed. But I'm no expert. With the Trek, you're buying arguably one of the best DH chassis out there. Stable, light, stiff, agile. It's got all the great features. The nice thing about the Session series is they work just as well for every day joes as they do for top level DH racers.
 

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,346
1,587
Warsaw :/
Do you must buy local? There are nice builds on the rocky mountain flatlines wc 2010 on ebay. 2k and 4k both new.
 

IH8Rice

I'm Mr. Negative! I Fail!
Aug 2, 2008
24,524
494
Im over here now
keep the extra $1k in your pocket for lift tickets, gas and other expenses youll have with DH. the Operator will be more than enough for you.
 

TheTruth

Turbo Monkey
Jun 15, 2009
3,893
1
I'm waving. Can you see me now?
I say get a session 8. Those are just better frames. I work at a kona dealer and I really hate kona frames. They are heavy and built poorly. When I look at kona bikes, I think that the people who designed this frame must have thought of every possible unnecessary object that could be welded to the bike, and then they did it. Perhaps there is an endless supply of shrooms in the kona design room.


However, the konas come with gigantic bars. They come stock with 31" handlebars. I think that is 780-790mm. I measured the bars on the operator in my shop and damn, they were big.
 

cecil

Turbo Monkey
Jun 3, 2008
2,064
2,345
with the voices in my head
keep the extra $1k in your pocket for lift tickets, gas and other expenses youll have with DH. the Operator will be more than enough for you.
i agree keep the $1,000.00 in ur pocket buy a leat brace ride the kona for a couple years while you figure out your riding style and what bike works the best for you
 

Evo.

Chimp
Feb 5, 2011
35
0
Pittsburgh
Thanks for the advice.

I guess I was just hoping the Kona would get good reviews because of the price I can get on it. If I got the Kona, I would have extra money for some upgrades and a season pass to my local park.

Please keep the comments coming!
 

IH8Rice

I'm Mr. Negative! I Fail!
Aug 2, 2008
24,524
494
Im over here now
its not that the Kona is going to be a bad bike or anything. almost all new DH bikes on the market are great....especially for a beginner.
 

demo 9

Turbo Monkey
Jan 31, 2007
5,910
46
north jersey
Elaborating a little bit more, ill say this, The trek is from a better company, that updates their bikes in a timely manner, the kona is changed for the first time in 20 years, and the floater they added was designed and produced from brake therapy, they only update/fix bikes when they desperately have to. The session would be on its 3rd year, with all the bugs worked out and (supposedly) comes with a custom tuned shock for that bike. It has a racing pedigree and many users out there to help with problems/set up. I would also venture a guess that its going to have better CS from trek, as opposed to kona, but thats purely speculation.
 

tuumbaq

Monkey
Jul 5, 2006
725
0
Squamish BC
Im not sure the 2011 Session 8 comes with a custom valved rear shock like last year but if so, its not a fair comparison for the Kona.Both bikes are in a different league

Beside, apart from some marketing BS, the suspension design remains the same as before on the Kona, not bad but it as a few drawbacks.The Trek on the other hand has one of the best design out there IMO.It behaves like a single pivot ( great acceleration, track very well and super lively ) but doesnt get a lot of brake feedback ( if any ).If you can afford the Trek, dont even hesitate..
 

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,346
1,587
Warsaw :/

cecil

Turbo Monkey
Jun 3, 2008
2,064
2,345
with the voices in my head

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,346
1,587
Warsaw :/
thats still a used bike for $3100 w/ no warranty
Rocky Mountain covers your frame from the date of purchase of your Demo ROCKY MOUNTAIN® Bicycle with the same Warranty as a New Rocky Mountain Bicycle. The Frame is Warrantied according to the frame material and the type of use against defects in material and workmanship:
 

IH8Rice

I'm Mr. Negative! I Fail!
Aug 2, 2008
24,524
494
Im over here now
Rocky Mountain covers your frame from the date of purchase of your Demo ROCKY MOUNTAIN® Bicycle with the same Warranty as a New Rocky Mountain Bicycle. The Frame is Warrantied according to the frame material and the type of use against defects in material and workmanship:
from that link
Making a Warranty Claim

2.You will need to provide your authorized ROCKY MOUNTAIN® dealer with proof that you are the first owner by showing your original sales receipt.
edit: as well as:
What Will Void Your Warranty
A.Competition racing and any commercial activity i.e. Rental fleets, courier use, Police or security use.
 
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norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,346
1,587
Warsaw :/
from that link


edit: as well as:

Ask for a reciept? That ebay users is a legit store. I'm pretty sure they can give you one. As for retal/commercial use ? So what? You claim that demo bikes have and have not warranty at the same time? ;)
 

4130biker

PM me about Tantrum Cycles!
May 24, 2007
3,882
447
The Kona will be a great bike- people get so anal about this stuff, but when it comes down to it, that bike will not hold you back, nor would it hold anyone on this forum back (accept mentally).

Kona supports bikeparks, races, makes bikes that don't fall apart and get the job done well.
To answer the customer support thing here is what I have seen:
a.) I have very rarely heard of a broken Kona and never seen one, with many friends who have ridden or ride them.
b.) They have a support message board on their website with a moderator who knows absolutely everything about all of their bikes can answer any question for you if you for whatever reason, with no bs.
http://forums.konaworld.com/index.php
I asked all sorts of questions before I bought my Howler and it was awesome.
c.) A buddy of mine stripped out his rocker arm, and they sent him a new one for a fair price, part in stock, no excessive waiting. Seems like the way it should work to me...

I don't understand all of the Kona hate- it's bike rider owned, they've been around forever, they have supported our sport (even downhill!) when it was NOT COOL(from a big company money-making pespective) like it is now.

Their new design has improved upon a bike that has led the way in geometry (stab) for a while now (how about them low bottom brackets on these new demos, evils, wilsons, etc?)

Weight is an argment that has it's merits for either side. Kona has sided with durability, which I commend them for. Might not sell as many bikes, but it's not going to let as many down in the long run, either.
Sheeesh!
 
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mullet_dew

Monkey
Mar 22, 2009
224
0
Bellingham WA
Why does Kona get so much hate? They use a linkage driven single pivot just like 12345 other brands, they just happen to look similar from year to year because the tubes are in the same general place, not a totally new design every 2 years. If you want to hate on them do it for a legitimate reason, not herp derp don't like how it looks.
 

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,346
1,587
Warsaw :/
Why does Kona get so much hate? They use a linkage driven single pivot just like 12345 other brands, they just happen to look similar from year to year because the tubes are in the same general place, not a totally new design every 2 years. If you want to hate on them do it for a legitimate reason, not herp derp don't like how it looks.
Old ones used to brake (hollow link stinky, stabs at headtube). Stabs and Stinkys used to have really long CS's. Now it's fixed but I understand the hostility.
 

IH8Rice

I'm Mr. Negative! I Fail!
Aug 2, 2008
24,524
494
Im over here now
To answer the customer support thing here is what I have seen:
a.) I have very rarely heard of a broken Kona and never seen one, with many friends who have ridden or ride them.

Their new design has improved upon a bike that has led the way in geometry (stab) for a while now (how about them low bottom brackets on these new demos, evils, wilsons, etc?)
maybe the bikes of current are different but ive seen tons of older broken Konas. it was odd if they didnt break.

and that last comment is pretty funny.
 

dropmachine

Turbo Monkey
Sep 7, 2001
2,922
10
Your face.
One thing you have to keep in mind about Konas is who their target market used to be, and how the bikes were being treated. A bunch of kids on the North SHore hucking the crap out of the. Course they are going to break. The bikes that iv'e seen here only broke when you did something spectacularly stupid, like smash a tree at full tilt.

Might also want to know that a fair number of treks broke too, although like the brilliant company they are now, they've fixed the problems.

The newer Operator looks quite nicely refined, and its a decent price. Shame they ditched the floater, but oh well.
 

4130biker

PM me about Tantrum Cycles!
May 24, 2007
3,882
447
plenty of bikes before 2007 had low BB heights. get serious
I made a simple, general point about kona having good geometry early on- nice try to shift the point that you were making... I should have known that the d*ck measuring would come out with you. Get a life.
 

4130biker

PM me about Tantrum Cycles!
May 24, 2007
3,882
447
Sorry to jack your thread, evo.
My point was that the Kona should be rad- especially with the $1000 savings!
 

IH8Rice

I'm Mr. Negative! I Fail!
Aug 2, 2008
24,524
494
Im over here now
I made a simple, general point about kona having good geometry early on- nice try to shift the point that you were making... I should have known that the d*ck measuring would come out with you. Get a life.
no, you made a insinuation that the "new demos, evils, wilsons, etc" took cues from the Stab because it "led the way in geometry" in 2007 :rolleyes:
its not a dick measuring contest. its calling out dicks like you that dont even know that they made a asinine comment. big difference
 

4130biker

PM me about Tantrum Cycles!
May 24, 2007
3,882
447
I hope you are kidding about this. My friend's Kona Coilair from last year. Kona replaced it under warranty. :thumb:
Nope, wasn't kidding. Bikes break, my point was that it seems fairly rare with Kona. It's not too hard to find an example of just about any frame being broken.:thumb:
 

freeridefool

Monkey
Jun 17, 2006
647
0
medford, or
For a beginner wanting a dh bike that will last, be durable and help him get better the kona cant be beat. All the racer boys here can bash on kona all they want for whatever reason they choose. Kona probably wont ever be the sexy choice but they get the job done.

I love my demo, wouldnt buy a kona. But bashing on a company or a bike doesnt help anything. This kid has never even mentioned racing it. So demo 9 posting all the trek racing heritage crap is irrelevent.
 

4130biker

PM me about Tantrum Cycles!
May 24, 2007
3,882
447
no, you made a insinuation that the "new demos, evils, wilsons, etc" took cues from the Stab because it "led the way in geometry" in 2007 :rolleyes:
its not a dick measuring contest. its calling out dicks like you that dont even know that they made a asinine comment. big difference
I don't even know what to say. I guess I'm honored if you think I'm a dick?

When Fabien Barel was on the team, I'm sure he had a big influence on the stab, and I don't think my insinuation is too far, especially in a small community of mountain bikers.

I'm done, I've wasted too much time on you.
 

Zark

Hey little girl, do you want some candy?
Oct 18, 2001
6,254
7
Reno 911
Shame they ditched the floater, but oh well.
I saw an operator 2 weeks ago with the floater attached. I don't think it was stock and I didn't look close to see if the floater mounts were still part of the frame.

It was at a race too, defying the stereotype:rofl:
 

dropmachine

Turbo Monkey
Sep 7, 2001
2,922
10
Your face.
Demo9 posting about Treks racing heritage is hilarious, considering Konas 2 world Champs to Treks...well none I think.

But, the Trek is clearly the bike if you wanna lop off a nut, get juiced out of your mind and climb french mountains.

Thats what you meant right?