[demo 9]

Trek has input from neko, needles, mosley, and justin leov, who does KONA have? Robbie bourdon? I would think if the new kona was so good,(like the rest of them-lol) there would be 3 pages praising it, not 3 pages warning not to get it

isnt the trek a DW bike, that should make it instantly better anyway

EDIT yes yes, have your laughs, its early

 

[daisycutter]

who does trek have? neko, needles, mosley, and justin leov, lol

 

[worship_mud]

who does trek have? neko, needles, mosley, and justin leov, lol

ok, understood, but the question is still:

WHO DOES TREK HAVE?????

 

[Mo(n)arch]

Demo9 posting about Treks racing heritage is hilarious, considering Konas 2 world Champs to Treks...well none I think.

Well, Trek has at least one world champ title. Mosley 2010

And is it possible, that a certain Aaron Gwin is riding Trek in 2011???

 

[KavuRider]

I hope you are kidding about this. My friend's Kona Coilair from last year. Kona replaced it under warranty.

I don't have any pictures, but I too broke my 2009 CoilAir. Kona sent a whole replacement rear end for that bike.

My friend broke his near the CNC'd shock "cage", cracked it in a few places, but Kona upgraded him to a Stinky frame.

So, they really did alright, considering we both abused the hell out of them (and told Kona the same).

 

[IH8Rice]

When Fabien Barel was on the team, I'm sure he had a big influence on the stab, and I don't think my insinuation is too far, especially in a small community of mountain bikers.

youre right. the 2007 Konas set the standard for the geometry for all DH bike thanks to Fabien.

 

[demo 9]

youre right. the 2007 Konas set the standard for the geometry for all DH bike thanks to Fabien.

who also jumped ship

 

[IH8Rice]

who also jumped ship

well i dont think that was because of the bike. he did win a World Champs on their older design

 

[TheTruth]

Remember this?

 

[captainspauldin]

yeah, this thread went south pretty quick..
Here's my quick 2 cents:
-Like most things 1st year products aren't usually a good thing to jump on, the Kona looks nice, but it's a bit of a gamble.. I'm sure Kona WILL back you up if you have any issues it's not like it's a small boutique brand that doesn't have replacement parts.
-The Trek is a bit more refined, as I think they had denting issues w/the first year Sessions(now I think they have a shield right?)

Sidenote seeing Joe Smith rip hard on a Kona def. gets me interested in the Operator.

 

[jonKranked]

isnt the trek a DW bike

you really don't pay attention, do you?

:facepalm:

 

[IH8Rice]

its not really a "new" design is it? its just improving on their design that has worked for years. its got some curvy tubes but nothing major
one thing i dont get is how inserting the axle on the driveside helps to tighten the main pivot

and an axle that slides in from the drive side of the bike so you can adjust/tighten the main pivot

 

[captainspauldin]

its not really a "new" design is it? its just improving on their design that has worked for years. its got some curvy tubes but nothing major
one thing i dont get is how inserting the axle on the driveside helps to tighten the main pivot

Well I mean it looks like a major re-design based on the curvy tubes and super short headtube, but everything behind the the front triangle looks like "business-as-usual" for kona.

Found this, interestingly enough they compare it to the session, although it's a bit short:
http://www.konaworld.com/documents/Operator_dirt_2011.pdf

 

[KavuRider]

It cracked me up that Graham Agassiz broke his Operator practicing for Rampage, since that is now their replacement for the Stinky/Stab.

I think it looks legit though and I'm most likely going to grab the FR version when I get some cash built up. I rode an '09 Stab last year for a bit and really liked it.

 

[captainspauldin]

It cracked me up that Graham Agassiz broke his Operator practicing for Rampage, since that is now their replacement for the Stinky/Stab.

To be fair, Cam broke a Session @ the rampage in 2008. Doesn't really say much, not to mention Agassiz is a beast!

 

[4130biker]

youre right. the 2007 Konas set the standard for the geometry for all DH bike thanks to Fabien.

Missing the point completely once again. At least you sound cool with your with your predictable condescending post.

 

[IH8Rice]

Missing the point completely once again. At least you sound cool with your with your predictable condescending post.

no, i got it. evil, spesh and devinici all followed Kona's led in geometry w/ low BB's.
we should all stop and take a minute to recognize Kona's contribution to the world of modern DH geometry.

keep trying to make your comment make more sense then it really does. its funny

edit: i can do this all day toots

 

[demo 9]

you really don't pay attention, do you?

:facepalm:

not DW link, designed by DW, rather, "stolen" by DW, remember bradflyn?

 

[KavuRider]

To be fair, Cam broke a Session @ the rampage in 2008. Doesn't really say much, not to mention Agassiz is a beast!

Oh I know. I don't blame the bike, I just thought it was funny.

As I said, I dig the Operator, I want the polished one!

 

[demo 9]

Not aimed at anybody specifically, but i wouldn't discredit ANY company that broke down at rampage, modern bikes are really not meant for it (not saying bender's karpy should be brought back either) Thats a kind of hurt that not many people are going to put their bike through.

 

[Inclag]

Saving 1K with the Kona sounds like a no brainer to me. That money can be used for a season pass, an second wheelset, extra brake pads, and a bunch condition specific tires. You'll prevent yourself from having downtime during the riding season and increase the amount of time riding and grinning.

 

[4130biker]

no, i got it. evil, spesh and devinici all followed Kona's led in geometry w/ low BB's.
we should all stop and take a minute to recognize Kona's contribution to the world of modern DH geometry.

keep trying to make your comment make more sense then it really does. its funny

edit: i can do this all day toots

Ok then, lets make this productive. What companies that had 2007 geometry that hold up to 2011 standards.

Orange and Kona come to mind, what else?

 

[cableguy]

Ok then, lets make this productive. What companies that had 2007 geometry that hold up to 2011 standards.

Orange and Kona come to mind, what else?

Iron Horse Sunday. Sam Hill destroying competition with this bike is what started the trend IMO.

 

[monkeyfcuker]

Dirt have compared the Kona/Trek in this months mag. Not read it just looked at pictures....

 

[IH8Rice]

Ok then, lets make this productive. What companies that had 2007 geometry that hold up to 2011 standards.

Orange and Kona come to mind, what else?

Intense, IH, SC..plenty
hell IIRC, the Sunday's geometry didnt change much (if at all) since it was first made

 

[Pslide]

Dirt have compared the Kona/Trek in this months mag. Not read it just looked at pictures....

The nod went to the Trek, but they didn't have anything bad to say about the Kona.

 

[Pelle]

Iron Horse Sunday.

65 HA, 13.9" BB
Thats an AM bike by todays standards

The bike Barel rides in the vid on the other page has a crazy 60 degree HA and BB was super low too.

 

[demo 9]

The bike Barel rides in the vid on the other page has a crazy 60 degree HA and BB was super low too.

you kidding me right? crazy 60 degree HA? super low BB with him on it riding? do you know the measurements?

As far as kona leading the market with the 2007 stab, i dont even know where to begin with this 1, so i wont

 

[captainspauldin]

you kidding me right? crazy 60 degree HA? super low BB with him on it riding? do you know the measurements?

I remember reading/hearing awhile ago that Fabien's Stab had custom geometry that wasn't found on the normal bikes.. can't confirm it though, but it isn't that hard to believe w/how his mondraker is set up.

 

[Pelle]

you kidding me right? crazy 60 degree HA? super low BB with him on it riding? do you know the measurements?

As far as kona leading the market with the 2007 stab, i dont even know where to begin with this 1, so i wont

It´s all in a Dirt article from 2007.

Barels bike in 2005.
WB 1217mm
HA 60 with 170mm fork with flat crowns.
BB drop 17.5mm

 

[demo 9]

I remember reading/hearing awhile ago that Fabien's Stab had custom geometry that wasn't found on the normal bikes.. can't confirm it though, but it isn't that hard to believe w/how his mondraker is set up.

Could be very true, but, that doesnt mean that the production bikes had it,(and i dont blame them either) i spent a significant amount of time on an 08 stab, hated it, it was long, and didnt track well at all (maybe why it was so long?) It had ok geo, it wasnt anything crazy modern, if anything, it felt "old" and this was only a few months ago. The bikes i was riding at the time, were a demo 9, and a '10 jedi, fork all the way down. I didnt see any crazy modern geo, but i guess i wasnt looking for it either. I found it exceptionally good in the first 3 inches of travel, but after that it kinda turned into sh!t.

I dont think the operator is terrible, i do think its laughable comparing it to a trek(especially since its a 3 year bike now) I have found kona to be a company about "just enough" That could be good or bad, but IMO, the operator would have never happened if they didnt get too behind in sales, we see other big companies like spesh putting new bikes out all the time, yeti and intense come to mind as well. I fail to understand why kona cant push the R&D a little bit more, they have all 12 trillion canadians on PB drooling over them, but they just "dont" seem to ever want to push it, i dont see the operator changing for another 4-6 years minimum, im not a gambling man, but it wouldnt surprise me if spesh does some "fix ups" to the new demo (which seems to be the most popular frame of 2011?) Maybe its a cocky attitude, maybe ill always have the stigma of konas snapping the whole time when i was getting into the sport. However, this is merely my observation of a company that i dont work for, but, that said, i do stand behind my opinions, i bought my GF a stinky and the seat collar nails into the rear triangle when it bottoms out, thats almost as bad as a jamis, I dont plan on owning a kona any time soon, but thats merely my opinion.

If i had to pick a bike that led the Geo, id take my yeti DH-9

^ and that was in 2003

 

[demo 9]

It´s all in a Dirt article from 2007.

Barels bike in 2005.
WB 1217mm
HA 60 with 170mm fork with flat crowns.
BB drop 17.5mm

this is his current bike 59 degrees (retarded)

This was a picture taken of his bike, uploaded to PB in 2005

Maybe its just me, but they dont look even relatively close

 

[Pelle]

Haha that Summum just looks wierd!

They messed around alot with the geometry on the Stab so who knows what version is in that pic. But no it doesnt look like a 60 degree HA compared to the Mondraker.

 

[dropmachine]

 

[Evo.]

 

[Evo.]

Thanks for the replies...

Just an FYI, I will not be racing anytime soon nor do I have any desire to hit a 1200ft gap over the grand canon...

I am pretty sure Sam Hill, Steve Smith, Gee Atherton, etc.., could take either one of these bikes and still kick ass.

Anyways, thanks for the advice and comments.

 

[demo 9]

Dont know that it matters to you, but the trek will have a higher re-sale value, while the kona will be more likely to sell (to a young kid)

Food for thought

 

[FlipFantasia]

for what it's worth, I saw at least half a dozen treks being wheeled through the village here in whistler with broken chainstays (both sides) last season alone, never mind the previous two seasons....never saw anyone with broken kona's......demo_9, you continue to be the biggest laugh on this forum.

 

[Inclag]

demo_9, you continue to be the biggest laugh on this forum.

+rep

However, you do realize that you are like the old man yelling at a kid for lighting a bag of poo on his porch. If he says "ah shucks" and lets it slide or just ignores it, the kid will eventually loose interest and move onto other things. Voicing displeasure will only reinforce to him that acting like a dolt will provide that attention he's looking for.

 

[FlipFantasia]

+rep

However, you do realize that you are like the old man yelling at a kid for lighting a bag of poo on his porch. If he says "ah shucks" and lets it slide or just ignores it, the kid will eventually loose interest and move onto other things. Voicing displeasure will only reinforce to him that acting like a dolt will provide that attention he's looking for.

very true....unfortunately someone has to call bull**** on know-it-alls that actually don't know-it-all....