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2012 team rumour and speculation

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davet

Monkey
Jun 24, 2004
551
3
Bedlam said:
Like I said, legality aside it's still a douchy move and I can see why TWR would be butthurt about it.

I highly doubt that Gwins deal with TWR would have been worse for 2013 if he'd been straight with them from the beginning and just said "Hey guys, I've got an offer from Specialized which seems pretty sweet and I'm thinking of taking them up on." I don't think TWR would kick out their most successful athlete ever on that basis, especially as they they said they tried to come to an agreement with him. And if they still couldn't come to an agreement, they'd part ways with no hard feelings..
FYI, this is how I feel you should act towards your employer as well, and if your employer doesn't see it your way he's an asshole and you want out of there anyways.
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how do you know that isn't how AG approached them.

you don't. no one does. it's all speculation and dreamed up opinions of what actually happened

it'll all come out soon enough I imagine, but lets not form personal opinions on a guy based on the internet's version of what happened behind the scenes.
 
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Bedlam

Monkey
Feb 13, 2010
240
0
Under ground
davet said:
how do you know that isn't how AG approached them.

you don't. no one does. it's all speculation and dreamed up opinions of what actually happened

it'll all come out soon enough I imagine, but lets not form personal opinions on a guy based on the internet's version of what happened behind the scenes.
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It's just based off the story told by TWR. I'm man enough to change my opinion if someone else steps up with an explanation, but if the TWR story is true then my opinion stands. And I highly doubt that AG or Spec would come out with "Yeah, sorry, our bad. We acted like assholes, sorry..."
 
dhbrigade

dhbrigade

Chimp
Feb 21, 2006
89
2
norbar said:
As for Elliot Jackson - half of the Norwegian Biathlon team has astma and they can train using medication. I'm really surprised that's the reason unless that's some extreme case.
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If you look at the roadie circus everybody has asthma. They get this attested by their team medics so they can use asthma pharmaceuticals. On healthy persons they are enhancing the oxygen uptake. Some kind of "legal" doping.
 
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Bedlam

Monkey
Feb 13, 2010
240
0
Under ground
rpet said:
Exactly
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Like I said, if the other side of the story shows something completely different, I'll retract my statement, but there is little reason not to think what TWR said was true. The other possible explaination would be that Spec told Gwin to act like he did, and then I'm guessing neither of them are going to come forward.

Sorry, I guess it's just me having a hard time accepting that the sport I've come to like for being open and Bro is chainging into the classic factory racing where teams are rivals and not buddies off the circuit as well.. Heading for the olympics 2018 perhaps?
 
norbar

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
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dhbrigade said:
If you look at the roadie circus everybody has asthma. They get this attested by their team medics so they can use asthma pharmaceuticals. On healthy persons they are enhancing the oxygen uptake. Some kind of "legal" doping.
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Yeah but if it's that much of an echancement wouldn't it make your fitness somewhat normal if you really have astma? Though I suppose it may not be super healthy if you use the stronger meds.
 
Mo(n)arch

Mo(n)arch

Turbo Monkey
Dec 27, 2010
4,471
1,469
Italy/south Tyrol
Well, Eliot has real asthma:
http://www.vitalmtb.com/features/Eliot-Jackson-Retires-from-World-Cup-Downhill-Racing,424

It's crazy. If I come down from a race run I just cough. I can't stop coughing and I have to go and lay down, it's just crazy. Even if I were to keep going, it's just frustrating because I'll never be able to train hard enough to do good, like I just can't train physically as hard as those guys, like Gee and Aaron. And then racing is just frustrating, ya know, having to deal with that, coming into a race run knowing that you're going to be super sick afterward.
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dhbrigade

dhbrigade

Chimp
Feb 21, 2006
89
2
norbar said:
Yeah but if it's that much of an echancement wouldn't it make your fitness somewhat normal if you really have astma? Though I suppose it may not be super healthy if you use the stronger meds.
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It's not that much of enhancement. It's just the tiny bit, maybe fractures of a second, that gives someone an advantage within a leveled field.

If you suffer from real asthma, in most cases you will not get as strong as a healthy person. Depends on the severity.

Mo(n)arch said:
Well, Eliot has real asthma:
http://www.vitalmtb.com/features/Eliot-Jackson-Retires-from-World-Cup-Downhill-Racing,424
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No doubt about that. Was just referring to norbars statement about the norwegian ski team.
 
E

epic

Turbo Monkey
Sep 15, 2008
1,041
21
I used to work in that field (asthma) and I'm surprised he can't find an alternative therapy that is not illegal. It seems strange that they'd have banned everything. I mean I assume we are mostly talking about albuterol rescue inhalers and there are other pathways for treating asthma. Of course I was never involved in anything where they were used for performance enhancement, but I'd be surprised if Salmeterol would have a performance enhancing effect on people without asthma. Just like how Viagra (used to work on that one too) only enhances performance for people who actually have ED.

Anyway, bummer about Elliot, I only discovered him as a rider this summer, and I was really blown away by how good he is. I had no idea.
 
jonKranked

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
89,422
27,642
media blackout
epic said:
I used to work in that field (asthma) and I'm surprised he can't find an alternative therapy that is not illegal. It seems strange that they'd have banned everything. I mean I assume we are mostly talking about albuterol rescue inhalers and there are other pathways for treating asthma. Of course I was never involved in anything where they were used for performance enhancement, but I'd be surprised if Salmeterol would have a performance enhancing effect on people without asthma. Just like how Viagra (used to work on that one too) only enhances performance for people who actually have ED.

Anyway, bummer about Elliot, I only discovered him as a rider this summer, and I was really blown away by how good he is. I had no idea.
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given how whacked our US health insurance is... it may have just been lack of access to proper treatment. Racers are (unfortunately) not know for having access to good insurance.
 
norbar

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,516
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jonKranked said:
given how whacked our US health insurance is... it may have just been lack of access to proper treatment. Racers are (unfortunately) not know for having access to good insurance.
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Can't you just pay for your own and worst case scenario buy meds in canada and do medical turism? For A few hundret $/ Year I get really good medical insurance that covers any potential surgery/othropedic visits.
 
jonKranked

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
89,422
27,642
media blackout
norbar said:
Can't you just pay for your own and worst case scenario buy meds in canada and do medical turism? For A few hundret $/ Year I get really good medical insurance that covers any potential surgery/othropedic visits.
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paying for you own is extremely cost prohibitive here unfortunately (ie - not having a group plan through work). we're talking a few hundred a month. its absolutely outrageous.
 
G

General Lee

Turbo Monkey
Oct 16, 2003
2,860
0
The 802
A few days and now everyone on Ridemonkey isn't just an engineer but also a doctor and a lawyer?

From Eliot via Vital:

Hey everyone, I know asthma is a pretty common illness that can be treated but as far as I know it can't be cured and what I had was a little different. Believe me, my family and I tried every avenue possible to be able to get this fixed, not racing was the last thing I wanted to do.

From the end of 2010 I went the the best doctors in the country(some of the leading pulmonary doctors in the world), I took every kind of test you can think of( blood, vo2 max, etc) I was on the strongest medicine that the UCI would allow, I took extra time off before and after the races to help calm it down, my team manager and my mechanic were at the bottom and the top of the track with inhalers, I tried vegan, non-dairy, glutten free, and a few other diets I cant remember haha, unfortunately a lot of the breathing techniques go out the window when you're at 190 heart rate but yes I did try a few of those also. I worked with my trainer to find things for my warm up and my off season training that didn't effect me as bad, etc etc etc.

Even after all of that, nothing seemed to help, not even a little. There are a lot of remedies that work for regular asthmatics that don't work for people with exercise induced asthma, like me, and even less that work for "world class" athletes that are training 6-7 days a week. At some point it wasnt worth it for me to come down the hill, cough until I couldnt breath anymore, throw up, and then lay in bed for a week haha. I don't have unlimited funds to keep trying to figure out what is wrong with me and even if I did what would they say? Ya know. If i'm not racing I'm 100% healthy.

I don't mean this to sound sad or anything, just want to let you guys know I'm not just quitting because I'm too lazy to try to fix it haha. I love racing the world cups and meeting new people around the world. It's been my life for 3 years and it makes me happier than anything else. You'll still see me riding with my friends and at crankworx and sea otter hanging out and doing the events for fun. I don't have any plans to do any freeride or big mountain stuff but you never know!​
 
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norbar

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,516
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That's a bummer. From that it looks like it's a real PITA what he had. To be honest It's just sucks someone with such potential can't race. Best luck to him.
 
jonKranked

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
89,422
27,642
media blackout
norbar said:
That's a bummer. From that it looks like it's a real PITA what he had. To be honest It's just sucks someone with such potential can't race. Best luck to him.
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when I was a kid my allergies were so bad that for a while the dr's thought i had asthma. apparently i was borderline, and was using an inhaler from time to time when it flared up. sh*tty stuff that I wouldn't wish on anyone.
 
norbar

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,516
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Warsaw :/
jonKranked said:
when I was a kid my allergies were so bad that for a while the dr's thought i had asthma. apparently i was borderline, and was using an inhaler from time to time when it flared up. sh*tty stuff that I wouldn't wish on anyone.
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It may be a strange question but why the hell so many people have astma in the US? I know very few people here have it. Maybe 2 friends tops. Very mild cases too.
 
atrokz

atrokz

Turbo Monkey
Mar 14, 2002
1,552
77
teedotohdot
norbar said:
It may be a strange question but why the hell so many people have astma in the US? I know very few people here have it. Maybe 2 friends tops. Very mild cases too.
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HERE

Just looking at the first 'cause' is reason enough to understand why a lot of people might have it. Then you get to the 'expressing strong emotion' part, and remember football fans at a game and it all makes sense.
 
norbar

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,516
1,738
Warsaw :/
atrokz said:
HERE

Just looking at the first 'cause' is reason enough to understand why a lot of people might have it. Then you get to the 'expressing strong emotion' part, and remember football fans at a game and it all makes sense.
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You claim US of A is full of dust and molds?
 
B

Bedlam

Monkey
Feb 13, 2010
240
0
Under ground
Huge bummer about Elliot. Seeing him roll down and huck the **** out of the huge step down in Hafjell on his first practice run was insane, boy has got style for miles.

And of course we are all engineers, lawyers and doctors, who else could afford to pay the insane, inverse proportional price-per-kilo parts we must have?
 
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