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2015+ fox 36 harsh

djjohnr

Turbo Monkey
Apr 21, 2002
3,062
1,775
Northern California
I have two 36s. One of them feels awesome everywhere as long as it's rebuilt often. The other one feels good on medium to large bumps, but doesn't smooth out the cattle trampled sections of my local trails as well (basically supporting what 92SE-R states). However, it's not bad, and doesn't feel any worse then my last 36 Van or Mattoc Pro did on the same trails.
 

jackalope

Mental acuity - 1%
Jan 9, 2004
7,655
6,034
in a single wide, cooking meth...
I have two 36s. One of them feels awesome everywhere as long as it's rebuilt often. The other one feels good on medium to large bumps, but doesn't smooth out the cattle trampled sections of my local trails as well (basically supporting what 92SE-R states). However, it's not bad, and doesn't feel any worse then my last 36 Van or Mattoc Pro did on the same trails.

:ban:
 

92SE-R

piston slapper
Feb 5, 2004
272
13
San Diego, CA
I dont think they can swap in 18 parts. I think the transfer port is in stanchion.

That's the part I hate the most about my fork. It feels ok till I'm going fast riding thru baby heads, then it jackhammers!

My fork just got to Fox today so hopefully they will give me a call and I'll see if they can swap in the 18 parts.
 

HAB

Chelsea from Seattle
Apr 28, 2007
11,583
2,013
Seattle
The downside is that it makes it a lot harder to change the travel too. I'm running one at 120mm on my hardtail, and that doesn't sound like it'll be an option on the 2018. I guess you could make a custom shorter air shaft, then run about 1000 air volume spacers so that it ramps up, but it's not as easy as it used to be.
 

mrgto

Monkey
Aug 4, 2009
295
118
Sounds like a lot of work to get the fork do what it's supposed to do out of the box. :think:
I agree but the Fox platform is the only fork that still has str8 1.125 steer, 26" wheel and 20mm axle.

I may be stuck in my ways but FFS I'm not buying new bike. My GG MT is 1 year old and is a 26". Fuck you bike industry, it's not like it's a 5 year old bike that I'm clinging to.

15mm QR axles suck dick. 20mm QR axles are better but still suck. 20mm bolt on/clamped axles still rule or the downhill world would have adapted.

Please MRP listen. I would buy a fork from you tomorrow since I've heard great things but I don't weigh a buck fity so I want a man sided axle with clamps.

p.s. I don't give a fuk about taking the front wheel off to get it in my car because I drive a truck!

Rant off...
 

StiHacka

Compensating for something
Jan 4, 2013
21,560
12,506
In hell. Welcome!
I agree but the Fox platform is the only fork that still has str8 1.125 steer, 26" wheel and 20mm axle.

I may be stuck in my ways but FFS I'm not buying new bike. My GG MT is 1 year old and is a 26". Fuck you bike industry, it's not like it's a 5 year old bike that I'm clinging to.

15mm QR axles suck dick. 20mm QR axles are better but still suck. 20mm bolt on/clamped axles still rule or the downhill world would have adapted.

Please MRP listen. I would buy a fork from you tomorrow since I've heard great things but I don't weigh a buck fity so I want a man sided axle with clamps.

p.s. I don't give a fuk about taking the front wheel off to get it in my car because I drive a truck!

Rant off...
MRP stage + carbon rim here and I cannot detect a bit of torsional flex, and I lack finesse and I am not a lightweight rider either. I just don't believe it is a practical issue and I switched from an overbuilt XFusion Vengeance and the old Lyrik before that.
 

mrgto

Monkey
Aug 4, 2009
295
118
MRP stage + carbon rim here and I cannot detect a bit of torsional flex, and I lack finesse and I am not a lightweight rider either. I just don't believe it is a practical issue and I switched from an overbuilt XFusion Vengeance and the old Lyrik before that.
I still ride a Vengeance on my hardtail and it flexes more than my 36. I assume it's because of the QR system but I can def feel
It in the rough stuff. Carbon wheels definitely make things more noticeable fosho.
 

Udi

RM Chief Ornithologist
Mar 14, 2005
4,917
1,211
Yeah 20mm with pinchbolts is definitely stiffer and I'm happy to support manufacturers that stick with it.

I definitely don't think Fox are perfect, but I like supporting them because they stick with what is best from a performance standpoint for as long as possible until pressure from other manufacturers' marketing BS forces them to change. They maintained a coil DH fork (as the only option) until 2013, have kept 20mm axles in their AM/EN fork longer than everyone else, have offered full HS/LS adjustable + conventionally shimmed dampers in the 36/40 lineup for a very long time while other mfgs made various sacrifices, and have stuck with stiffer / larger stanchions in the face of lighter forks from the competition that look better on paper.

They've also run larger lower lubrication oil quantities than RS for entirety, but sadly like everything else, this number has been dropping with each new design to contend in the weight-on-paper department.

With that said, the new 36s (2015-2017) have definitely had more friction across the board than the new Pike/Lyrik, so it'd be cool if 92SE-R's piston sorted it out. In my book, the only significant problems are the ones you can't fix yourself. :)
 

HAB

Chelsea from Seattle
Apr 28, 2007
11,583
2,013
Seattle
Jesus... the Fox 36 version is $179 us.
The Fox version is more complicated because it (presumably) has to replace the entire spring assembly, not just the top cap. The RS air spring has the transfer port in the stanchion (like the 2018 36), whereas the earlier 36 has a transfer shaft that's attached to the spring side top cap to handle equalization of the positive and negative chambers at top out. The ramp control for the 36 would have to replace both the top cap/transfer shaft assembly and the main spring sealhead/shaft assembly. I assume it then adds a second air valve to the bottom of the spring side leg to pressurize the negative chamber. This also does away with the extra dynamic seal on the transfer shaft, as Fox has done for 2018, but has separate valves for the positive and negative springs, instead of having a transfer port.
 

Metamorphic

Monkey
May 12, 2015
274
177
Cackalack
How do you change travel now with mrp? Also how is negative volume increased?
Not sure on travel, but the valve you install on spring side (3:00 mark) would pop out the bottom of spring side lower right? I imagine it'll just have a threaded cover, and you could hook up and pressurize.
 

92SE-R

piston slapper
Feb 5, 2004
272
13
San Diego, CA
You can only go 10psi over the positive air side. Doesnt seem to do anything for volume.

Not sure on travel, but the valve you install on spring side (3:00 mark) would pop out the bottom of spring side lower right? I imagine it'll just have a threaded cover, and you could hook up and pressurize.
 

HAB

Chelsea from Seattle
Apr 28, 2007
11,583
2,013
Seattle
Travel spacers should work the same as they always have with the MRP system. They just make the fork top out sooner, so it can't extend fully. With the Fox spring design, you then also needed to change the length of the transfer shaft so that the two chambers would equalize properly, but the MRP does away with all that.

Negative spring volume won't change appreciably.
 

HAB

Chelsea from Seattle
Apr 28, 2007
11,583
2,013
Seattle
Well yeah, you'd want to set the positive pressure first regardless of spacer config.
 

92SE-R

piston slapper
Feb 5, 2004
272
13
San Diego, CA
Theyre here.



Interesting observation. The fox rebound is pretty good. Each click makes a noticeable difference. I couldnt tell before from the stiction i guess. Im about 8 psi higher than before, more in line with foxs recommendations for my weight. Im loving just slamming into every little thing. It just works.
 
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jstuhlman

bagpipe wanker
Dec 3, 2009
16,923
13,452
Cackalacka du Nord
Theyre here.



Interesting observation. The fox rebound is pretty good. Each click makes a noticeable difference. I couldnt tell before from the stiction i guess. Im about 8 psi higher than before, more in line with foxs recommendations for my weight. Im loving just slamming into every little thing. It just works.
if extras available, plz pm with details. thx.
 

92SE-R

piston slapper
Feb 5, 2004
272
13
San Diego, CA
This is made out of a high end plastic that is chemical resistant and dimensionally very stable. It doesnt swell from chemicals and machines well so you are able to hold tight tolerances with it. The first pictures were of a prototype i ran made out of aluminum lying around machine shop. If the main air seal fails, there is potential for scoring on the inside of the stanchion. That is why Fox and Rockshox also use plastic. They either cheaped out on their plastic or cheaped out on machining labor for keeping tight tolerances, or maybe a combination of both.

I didnt want to do backup rings because thats just a pain in the ass.
 

profro

Turbo Monkey
Feb 25, 2002
5,617
314
Walden Ridge
Can someone summarize this for me as I am latecomer. I am also new to Fox. I have a 36 Performance with a Avy cart on a 2017 Yeti SB6 and the damn this is so harsh. I have had Avy dampers in the past and I can't believe its that. It also seems to be getting worse. Did a race yesterday (endubro) and only managed to get around 3" of travel all day.
 

mrgto

Monkey
Aug 4, 2009
295
118
Basically the air seal head on forks that are harsh may have bad tolerances and cause a ton of stiction if I understand correctly. The link a page back to 92SE-Rs post on mtbro sums it up pretty good as well.
Can someone summarize this for me as I am latecomer. I am also new to Fox. I have a 36 Performance with a Avy cart on a 2017 Yeti SB6 and the damn this is so harsh. I have had Avy dampers in the past and I can't believe its that. It also seems to be getting worse. Did a race yesterday (endubro) and only managed to get around 3" of travel all day.
 

mrgto

Monkey
Aug 4, 2009
295
118
Just got my 36 back from Fox today. I'm gonna give it a go on Thursday and see if it's any better.

I'm pretty sure they think I am full of shit when I tell them this fork is harsh. I got the fork back with nothing in a form of response or anything after I spelled out specifically what I was experiencing. The tech guy I talked to before I sent it in was a douche, basically saying I wasent riding it hard enough. I guess riding Windrock trails on a single crown fork at 240lbs is taking it easy on a fork.....

I'm gonna change the part out that 92SE-R made after I give the rebuilt fork a thrash and compare.