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2015+ fox 36 harsh

Lelandjt

adorbs
Apr 4, 2008
2,568
916
Breckenridge, CO/Lahaina,HI
I used to loosen the lowers to burp my forks till someone showed me the zip tie trick. I use a bench mounted belt sander at the shop to smooth and thin the tip and then keep that special zip tie in my tool box. Living at high altitude every new fork needs a burp and most ridden forks have built up pressure.

When a fork comes into the shop feeling like ultra-progressive poo the first thing I do is burp the seals, then flip it over and hit the schrader valve to squirt oil out of the air chamber that's been sucked in from the chassis. Those 2 things usually make such a difference.
 

djjohnr

Turbo Monkey
Apr 21, 2002
3,064
1,775
Northern California
Going to install 92SE-R9s mod this weekend. In the meantime I demo'd a bike that had the '18 36 on it over the weekend; it did move through it's travel easier than my '15s do, and it didn't appear to have been rebuilt recently either. It wasn't a nice and day difference, but it was noticeable. Not a fan of the bike it was on (Ibis HD4).
 

SuboptimusPrime

Turbo Monkey
Aug 18, 2005
1,663
1,644
NorCack
For anyone who has had trouble burping using the zip tie trick, I had a much easier time after sanding down the tip of the zip tie and dipping it in slick honey. Didn't get much from mine, seemed like just a tiny hiss on the spring side. I wonder a little if people whose rides routinely involve significant changes in altitude have more of this going on--my rides bounce between 200-400 above sea level.
 

marshalolson

Turbo Monkey
May 25, 2006
1,772
523
For anyone who has had trouble burping using the zip tie trick, I had a much easier time after sanding down the tip of the zip tie and dipping it in slick honey. Didn't get much from mine, seemed like just a tiny hiss on the spring side. I wonder a little if people whose rides routinely involve significant changes in altitude have more of this going on--my rides bounce between 200-400 above sea level.
I think this is it, but for me it's way worse in my 36 than my Lyrik. My rides have 4000+ Ft vert of elevation delta (live at 6000 feet, mosts rides start at 7000 feet, up to 10,000 feet and back).

I burp my 36 every 3-4 rides. My Lyrik only needs to be burped every 20-30 days.

Like Kidwoo, I get air in both legs, so it must be getting sucked through the dust and oil seals? I don't seem to loose air pressure in the spring...?

Excited to finally get my air piston installed Thursday, and a bunch of miles fri/sat/sun.
 
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Happymtb.fr

Turbo Monkey
Feb 9, 2016
1,987
1,352
SWE
for me it's way worse in my 36 than my Lyrik.
Same here, my 36 is getting way more air in than my Yari.
I live nearly at sea level and the highest point is at about 100m (which should be around 300 of somebody's feet, YMMV) so not much altitude induced pressure variations in my case.
Dust seals on RS and Fox are made by SKF so that I don't think that they would make a big difference... maybe the kashima coating is the culprit? #speculation
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
21,369
6,432
borcester rhymes
For anyone who has had trouble burping using the zip tie trick, I had a much easier time after sanding down the tip of the zip tie and dipping it in slick honey. Didn't get much from mine, seemed like just a tiny hiss on the spring side. I wonder a little if people whose rides routinely involve significant changes in altitude have more of this going on--my rides bounce between 200-400 above sea level.
if you're still struggling to get it in, you can try taking your fork out for a nice dinner starting with raw oysters and some red wine at the end. A few cocktails after the two of you get home, and your zip tie should slide right in.
 

SuboptimusPrime

Turbo Monkey
Aug 18, 2005
1,663
1,644
NorCack
if you're still struggling to get it in, you can try taking your fork out for a nice dinner starting with raw oysters and some red wine at the end. A few cocktails after the two of you get home, and your zip tie should slide right in.
I'm surprised it took someone so long to go there... :monkeydance:
 

slyfink

Turbo Monkey
Sep 16, 2008
9,575
5,356
Ottawa, Canada
if you're still struggling to get it in, you can try taking your fork out for a nice dinner starting with raw oysters and some red wine at the end. A few cocktails after the two of you get home, and your zip tie should slide right in.
red wine and oysters??!?! amateur. oysters call for white wine or champagne.
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
21,369
6,432
borcester rhymes
red wine and oysters??!?! amateur. oysters call for white wine or champagne.
RED WINE AT THE END, FOOL. You start with the oysters and a nice sauv blanc. then you shift to the red meat to get the testosterone going. then you put the lime in the coconut and mix it all up.
 

slyfink

Turbo Monkey
Sep 16, 2008
9,575
5,356
Ottawa, Canada
RED WINE AT THE END, FOOL. You start with the oysters and a nice sauv blanc. then you shift to the red meat to get the testosterone going. then you put the lime in the coconut and mix it all up.
red meat??!

One goes straight from the oysters to dinner at the Y.
 

FarkinRyan

Monkey
Dec 15, 2003
611
192
Pemberton, BC
How many of you out there with a mysteriously harsh 36 also find that you have to burp it frequently or find that there is built up air in the lowers when you do burp it? If the two correlate then you'd have to assume that it is down to negative air spring leakage into the lowers when the fork is being ridden.
 

jackalope

Mental acuity - 1%
Jan 9, 2004
7,659
6,038
in a single wide, cooking meth...
So what do I do if @SuboptimusPrime burped my fork with his magic fork porker zip tie and no air came out?? To add to my misery, the fork feels great aside from the occasional crown creak when I make bad decisions (a 2 plus year old fork that's had the ever living fuck beat out of it). Can I put an Avy cart in both legs? I'm a huge fucking fan of mid-valves, as well as 2/3rds valves.
 

marshalolson

Turbo Monkey
May 25, 2006
1,772
523
Sweet! Can you share your settings before and after and how much you weigh?
2015 rc2 at 140mm
205lbs rider

Before:
100psi
LS and HS: both 4 from open

After
105psi (also added 2 orange volume spacers would be at 115psi with same spacers)
LS: 13 from open
HS: 10 from open

Descended 13k of fast rough natural trails on Sunday with no hand pump. Previously had hand pump after 2000 vert.
 
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djjohnr

Turbo Monkey
Apr 21, 2002
3,064
1,775
Northern California
Finally installed 92SE-R9's piston on one of my 36s (150mm) and got some ride time.

- Install was easy, same process as changing travel with additional steps to unscrew the piston bolt, swap the piston, swap the seal and thread the piston bolt back on. Adds maybe 2 minutes to the process.

- Upon cycling the piston there is a noticeable decrease in resistance.

- If you do the test shown in the video earlier in this thread (cycle suspension standing on the pedals, stop and shift weight forward), there's still a decent amount of friction present before the suspension breaks away. On my fork I think there's some binding in the compression damper, as that's where I feel the most drag when I have the fork apart; especially if I side load it at all.

- Setting up the fork after installing I landed on 5 more PSI than I ran previously to prevent dive. Fork was noticeably smoother through the mid-stroke. Not a night and day difference, but apparent.

- Did a 4 hour ride on rocky terrain. I felt the most benefit through rock gardens where the amount of feedback I felt on successive baby heads was decreased, giving me a little more margin for error. Overall my hands felt better at the end of the ride than they would have previously.

tl;dr - it was worth the $
 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
I installed a talas cartridge in mine based on how unbelievably awesome another one I have is. Felt great in the garage.

Then I got hit by a 17 year old girl running a stop sign who completely destroyed the front of my bike 200ft from my driveway, totaling the fork. I think it would have worked better though.
 

Nick

My name is Nick
Sep 21, 2001
24,365
15,367
where the trails are
I installed a talas cartridge in mine based on how unbelievably awesome another one I have is. Felt great in the garage.

Then I got hit by a 17 year old girl running a stop sign who completely destroyed the front of my bike 200ft from my driveway, totaling the fork. I think it would have worked better though.
dude, wtf? are you ok? which bike were you riding?
 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
I'm fine. I jumped off the bike kinda onto her hood and off to the side. Made some very loud sounds with my mouth and told her to call the police. No witnesses and a cop with a swear about an IQ of 50 just gave me a report with 'no fault' since she denied running the stop sign. Fucking watched her do it and turn so hard her tires were whistling.

It's my patrol. The fork is fucked as it went right under a wheel. I *think* the frame is fine. But that's the fun with carbon. I won't know until the headtube flies off. I'm trying to find some parts to get it running again for the GG monarch thing this weekend.


But anyway. I think the easiest way to fix one of these floats right now is to put a talas cart in. The newer ones really do feel as light off the top as the RS air forks. They sucked so badly for so long nobody believes me until they ride one.

Once 92SE gets his coil option going, that'll be the other way.
 
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Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
55,096
20,991
Sleazattle
I'm fine. I jumped off the bike kinda onto her hood and off to the side. Made some very loud sounds with my mouth and told her to call the police. No witnesses and a cop with a swear about an IQ of 50 just gave me a report with 'no fault' since she denied running the stop sign. Fucking watched her do it and turn so hard her tires were whistling.

It's my patrol. The fork is fucked as it went right under a wheel. I *think* the frame is fine. But that's the fun with carbon. I won't know until the headtube flies off. I'm trying to find some parts to get it running again for the GG monarch thing this weekend.
If it makes you feel any better a few years ago I got rear ended by a Semi at a stop. Semi then proceeded to push my car a few hundred yards down the road. The car was entangled in some giant hooks on the bumper and He couldn't see me over the hood. The trucker only stopped because a cop witnessed the whole thing and pulled him over. The cop issued no tickets to the driver.

Glad you ain't ded

Was the chick hot?
 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
If it makes you feel any better a few years ago I got rear ended by a Semi at a stop. Semi then proceeded to push my car a few hundred yards down the road. The car was entangled in some giant hooks on the bumper and He couldn't see me over the hood. The trucker only stopped because a cop witnessed the whole thing and pulled him over. The cop issued no tickets to the driver.

Glad you ain't ded

Was the chick hot?
WTF could possibly be the reason for not giving that guy a ticket?



Don't know what she looked like. This is all I could see.

punch.jpg
 

Udi

RM Chief Ornithologist
Mar 14, 2005
4,917
1,211
a cop with a swear about an IQ of 50 just gave me a report with 'no fault'
Ah that sucks man, what a joke. Glad you're okay though, a few hundred bucks down is not cool but injuries are so much worse and sometimes no amount of money can make that right.
 

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
19,454
10,089
AK
I installed a talas cartridge in mine based on how unbelievably awesome another one I have is. Felt great in the garage.

Then I got hit by a 17 year old girl running a stop sign who completely destroyed the front of my bike 200ft from my driveway, totaling the fork. I think it would have worked better though.
That sucks. Maybe unfortunately due to the state of things, I know how to handle these situations from my job as an investigator, it bugs the hell out of me that shit like this happens and people don't know what to do or how to make authorities accountable. That isn't your fault, it's their fault for not doing their damn job and you shouldn't have to take evidence as if you are preparing to take the other party to court...but these days, sometimes you have to. The last recourse is to collect all this information so your insurance company can go after the other party. If they know the license plate of the other vehicle, they can usually get their insurance to pay your deductible. The insurance company has investigators too, but IME they are pretty good at sorting through BS and figuring out what happened. It's usually pretty hard for the other party to ever defend a rear-ending.
 

profro

Turbo Monkey
Feb 25, 2002
5,617
314
Walden Ridge
Update:

I ordered a piston from 92SE-R9, and while it was definitely plusher, it really through off my setting from Avalanche cartridge which Craig sets according to weight and riding style and is certainly dependent on spring rate/shape, etc. The larger negative chamber changed the initial spring rate and the ramp up. Not bad things, but it really through my baselines off with my current setup. I still rode it for the better part of the summer, but what I have noticed irregardless of piston (stock or 92SE-R9) is that the equalization between the positive and negative chambers gets really inconsistent. I notice that the fork doesn't return to full length on its own and no amount of me pushing the lowers down won't equalize the chambers. Finding a consistent sag setting is really hard. It gets so bad that when I take the top cap off the transfer rod requires me pulling pretty hard to release the vacuum from the negative chamber. Usually an audible "pop" is heard when the transfer rod is finally removed. The dimple is full of grease and I assume is keeping the equalization from happening. If I clean the rod and reassemble with Slick Honey only above the dimple the fork comes back to life.

What the hell? Is this an expected behavior for this vintage and do I need to bi-weekly rebuild the air spring to keep this fork running good?
 
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HAB

Chelsea from Seattle
Apr 28, 2007
11,583
2,013
Seattle
Update:

I ordered a piston from 92SE-R9, and while it was definitely plusher, it really through off my setting from Avalanche cartridge which Craig sets according to weight and riding style and is certainly dependent on spring rate/shape, etc. The larger negative chamber changed the initial spring rate and the ramp up. Not bad things, but it really through my baselines off with my current setup. I still rode it for the better part of the summer, but what I have noticed irregardless of piston (stock or 92SE-R9) is that the equalization between the positive and negative chambers gets really inconsistent. I notice that the fork doesn't return to full length on its own and no amount of me pushing the lowers down won't equalize the chambers. Finding a consistent sag setting is really hard. It gets so bad that when I take the top cap off the transfer rod requires me pulling pretty hard to release the vacuum from the negative chamber. Usually an audible "pop" is heard when the transfer rod is finally removed. The dimple is full of grease and I assume is keeping the equalization from happening. If I clean the rod and reassemble with Slick Honey only above the dimple the fork comes back to life.

What the hell? Is this an expected behavior for this vintage and do I need to bi-weekly rebuild the air spring to keep this fork running good?
No, that's not normal. How much slick honey are you using? Because you don't need much at all. If it's filling up to the point that it doesn't equalize, I think you might be going overboard
 

profro

Turbo Monkey
Feb 25, 2002
5,617
314
Walden Ridge
No, that's not normal. How much slick honey are you using? Because you don't need much at all. If it's filling up to the point that it doesn't equalize, I think you might be going overboard
I am using less and less to test this hypothesis, but even with just minimal amounts it seems to still be migrating and building up on the dimple. This last rebuild I only put the minimal amount above the dimple, none below. We shall see.
 

Lelandjt

adorbs
Apr 4, 2008
2,568
916
Breckenridge, CO/Lahaina,HI
I have a 2018 160mm 36 RC2. I just replaced the air piston with a 2019 170mm and rebuilt it with much less grease than the factory used. I replaced the damper with a 2019 Grip 2. The fork is definitely less harsh and I think the damper is an improvement but it could also be the extra cm of travel that let me drop pressure from 78 to 74. I like the dual rebound control. I'm getting really good traction while still having pop.
 

buckoW

Turbo Monkey
Mar 1, 2007
3,814
4,817
Champery, Switzerland
I have a 2018 160mm 36 RC2. I just replaced the air piston with a 2019 170mm and rebuilt it with much less grease than the factory used. I replaced the damper with a 2019 Grip 2. The fork is definitely less harsh and I think the damper is an improvement but it could also be the extra cm of travel that let me drop pressure from 78 to 74. I like the dual rebound control. I'm getting really good traction while still having pop.
I did the same and have a similar experience. The new air spring seems a lot better and I also use less grease to avoid blocking the transfer port.