I've got almost no time on any of their recent bikes, except for the V10, so I'm totally armchair quarterbacking here, but, yeah, I didn't think about the rebound stroke. My gut feeling was that it's a small enough change that it's not a huge deal on compression, when you're bottoming out anyway, but it does make sense that it would make for a little hitch in rebound when it hits that inflection point.
2016 Uzzi
- Thread starter djjohnr
- Start date
i really like the "Super enduro design".......
top tube is meh..other wise sweet looking park bike
too many numbers and lines stacking up ITT
im outta here
top tube is meh..other wise sweet looking park bike
too many numbers and lines stacking up ITT
im outta here
ok-yes, i guess i was hung up on 26, but can be no more. enduro evo and voltage are there...but I've pedaled my old uzzi everywhere for so long with so few issues that it's hard to look elsewhere. adjustability, as it was when i originally chose the uzzi over the sx trail as my "one" (suck it up and pedal, you pansy) bike wins out. plus i fucking hate how the voltage looks.
Ack. Why the fuck would someone do that?Pretty much the same as what you got
http://www.ridemonkey.com/media/uzzi-lev.2699/full?lightbox=1&last_edit_date=1442283126
I've been geeking out on that program pretty hard over the last year due to some injuries as well as riding a shit ton of bikes looking for something pretty specific. It may not always be pinpoint accurate but for generalities between designs and curves it's pretty good and relates to some real world experience. I owned two vpp intense bikes that had curves like that, and have ridden just about every longer travel trail bike santa cruz has made lately (cept for that new bronson or 5010). What I've felt on all of them jives with that fucked up top stroke leverage. You just end up banging the living shit out of wheels on the rebound stroke on relentless successive hits. I fucking hate it. And it's not "VPP" because you get on a v10 and it doesn't do it. It hasn't with any of the models I've ridden (basically from carbon year 1). It jives with those curves. And not that I wholly trust anyone in the mtb review biz, but you look at the one complaint on the new sc bronson, and it's along the lines of "gets hung up on successive hits". Well duh. That was the biggest gripe with the 2nd gen nomad, and is way better with the current one.
As far as the progressive thing, I'm constantly trying to make bikes more progressive, both because of that top end behavior of the v10 but also because most people think 'plush' at low speeds is something to aspire towards. Based on some of the better bikes I've ridden (the single pivot dhrs, a yt tues, a v10 etc etc) it seems like an overall straightish curve with a ratio change of about 1 is pretty much my personal awesome. Most bikes are under that and I try to get them to ramp up more, some bikes like those old 951s are so progressive you have to over sag them to get full travel, or you get a good sag and then get pitched all the time because it ramps up too hard with the increased preload setup.
0.5 change not enough
Change of 2 is too mush
1.
It's easy to remember too.
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Yes.Wasn't there a pic of a Nomad proto where the shock was driven from the lower link, like a V10? That thing could be sweet.
Anyway.... FREERIDE AIN'T DEAD!
They bailed on it for some reason. The joke was that it was for a water bottle. Who knows though. If they made a 140-160mm trailbike with a leverage curve like the v10 I would skip mortgage payments to buy one. Everything else about the bikes is so good. But what that weird curve does to how they ride is so not good. And at $3k frames, I'm going to be picky.
so how does coil vs. air fix ratio on teh uzzi, etc.? moar better?
As far as ~180mm+ travel bikes with DH geometry and pedal friendly seat tubes that you can actually order easily in the US -
- Enduro EVO: the 2016 is on the Canadian site eh. BB is high stock but a 26" rear fixes it - http://www.specialized.com/ca/en/bikes/mountain/enduro
- Cube Fritzz 180: HA is 65.5 but you could slacken it out with some cups - http://www.cube.eu/uk/products/fullsuspension/fritzz/cube-fritzz-180-hpa-sl-275-metalnflashred-2016/
- Liteville 601: BB is 14", but you could fix it with a 26" out back - http://www.liteville.de/t/25_586.html
- NS Soda EVO - http://www.ns-bikes.com/soda-evo-air,1106,pl.htm
- Canyon Torque: not available in the US yet, but says they're coming. Steep HA, but should be fixable with cups - https://www.canyon.com/en/gravity/torque-ex/torque-ex-gapstar.html
- Nicolai: they'll do custom IONs. I may go this direction next.
- Canfield: Lance said a 7-8" Balance is a possibility.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- Banshee Darkside: doesn't count, not a pedal friendly seat tube
- Scott Voltage: doesn't count, not a pedal friendly seat tube
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Get a Salsa Bucksaw! It has 100 mm of frame travel + 100 mm of shitty, squishy...I mean "plush" tire travel = 200 mm of rock gobbling bliss (to say nothing of the cachet a crabon Salsa affords you with the Mecklenburg Co. dentists clique).
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Usually a coil. It at least makes the extremes at top and bottom less extreme. Both that decreasing rate at the top cuz air spring initiation (although moar volume neg chambers like the corset/debonair/foxX help negate that), and the bottom cuz hard air spring ramp up. Coils got neitherz.
for all around riding, i like a higher-than-is-hip bb and a not-as-slack-as-is-"hip" ha...13.75-14 is cool, as is 66-ish...
i've always liked the torque. interested to see next iteration.
and sorry, maybe it's 'cause i work in the arts, but i just can't warm up to the aesthetics of the cube and ns. maybe i feel like the "swoopy" top tube offers a lower standover? too lazy to look at #'s...
i've always liked the torque. interested to see next iteration.
and sorry, maybe it's 'cause i work in the arts, but i just can't warm up to the aesthetics of the cube and ns. maybe i feel like the "swoopy" top tube offers a lower standover? too lazy to look at #'s...
SOMEONE REP JACKALOPE CUZ I CAN'T...
laffcrying about meck co dentist cred....
bwahahahahahahahaha
Interesting. What else do you think is so dialed about them, apart from the V10 leverage curve? They definitely look pretty, but I haven't felt like the geometry was anything to write home about either.
Also curious as to why you called out the single pivot DHRs above, but left the DW link one off. I've ridden various generations of the SP ones a bunch and own a DW, and think it's a definite improvement.
HAB:
I still kinda view bikes as templates. The v10 "rides right". You can smash the living shit out of things with it, it's nice and progressive so really hard singular hits get gradually muted without hitting a hard late stroke ramp up or blowing through to literally bottoming, and the wheel doesn't really feel 'disconnected' from you like a lot of other bikes do, and a smooth change in travel from that progressiveness that makes loading up in turns and on lips a smooth process, no matter the shape of the riding surface. And as a template it has a straight 1.5 headtube, which means anglesets, and a high/low setting which means the right size wheels if I want to. Plus stiff as fuck and light as fuck. My only gripe so far is that shorter than should be shock.....but whatever.
The dw DHR does a lot of things better than the single pivots.....geo, braking, pedaling, stiffness (at least over the round tubers). The leverage curve is goofy though. It's super flat around sag which makes loading it up weird. You have go deep into it before you get any real ramp up. It's just a weird over engineered paper idea that doesn't really translate IMO. It's just too stagey feeling. I left it out because as far as JUST leverage curves, it's not one of the best riding designs I've had. I've found ways to work around it but it took work (and some access to good shock tunes). That jive with your experience at all?
jsthulman: Pay attention. I'm talking about riding, not pictures.
Oh.....and I did run into someone who popped off a two week old sixc handlbar at the bend. Based on the bruising all over his body and watching him walk, that dude was fucked up. Broke pulling back on them.
I still kinda view bikes as templates. The v10 "rides right". You can smash the living shit out of things with it, it's nice and progressive so really hard singular hits get gradually muted without hitting a hard late stroke ramp up or blowing through to literally bottoming, and the wheel doesn't really feel 'disconnected' from you like a lot of other bikes do, and a smooth change in travel from that progressiveness that makes loading up in turns and on lips a smooth process, no matter the shape of the riding surface. And as a template it has a straight 1.5 headtube, which means anglesets, and a high/low setting which means the right size wheels if I want to.
Plus stiff as fuck and light as fuck. My only gripe so far is that shorter than should be shock.....but whatever.The dw DHR does a lot of things better than the single pivots.....geo, braking, pedaling, stiffness (at least over the round tubers). The leverage curve is goofy though. It's super flat around sag which makes loading it up weird. You have go deep into it before you get any real ramp up. It's just a weird over engineered paper idea that doesn't really translate IMO. It's just too stagey feeling. I left it out because as far as JUST leverage curves, it's not one of the best riding designs I've had. I've found ways to work around it but it took work (and some access to good shock tunes). That jive with your experience at all?
jsthulman: Pay attention. I'm talking about riding, not pictures.
Oh.....and I did run into someone who popped off a two week old sixc handlbar at the bend. Based on the bruising all over his body and watching him walk, that dude was fucked up. Broke pulling back on them.
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Wait, you care about how it actually RIDES?? WTF?
Found it, from here:
woah.. NSMB just dropped a sweet Shock Rate article
You're right, no room for a water bottle, FORGET IT! Not Enduro enough.
wait, wait, wait...has no one commented on the new-new "js-tuned" suspension of intense bikes? assuming it's jeff steber? tune a bike, tune a guitar. same/same, right?
my sixc barz have held strong to pulling up and pushing down. over and over again. incredibru! perhaps your bud overtorx???
my sixc barz have held strong to pulling up and pushing down. over and over again. incredibru! perhaps your bud overtorx???
ON THE BEND IE: not where something clamps
That bike looks gross. Im not sure why you would deal with pedaling a 190mm VPP bike uphill when there are so many great descending bikes with 150-160mm travel that actually pedal well. That suspension sucks going downhill too.
YT Capra comes close with a 170 option.
Other options:
Radon Swoop: http://www.radon-bikes.de/en/bikes/mountainbike/superenduro/swoop-175/swoop-175-60/
Propain Spindrift: https://www.propain-bikes.com/de/shop/Freeride+Bike+-+26+SPINDRIFT-49/
Radon Swoop: http://www.radon-bikes.de/en/bikes/mountainbike/superenduro/swoop-175/swoop-175-60/
Propain Spindrift: https://www.propain-bikes.com/de/shop/Freeride+Bike+-+26+SPINDRIFT-49/
Old graphic is old.
Oh my god the Spider.
The little tail up at the end of the Bronson is derpy, but it's not actually a big change so it's probably not thaaat bad.
After all, it's 2016.
German bike companys seem to tick the "lot of travel to pedal up hill" box.
Alutech, Nicolai or Litevill come to mind. But yeah, not really mainstream.
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Can't wait for this one to come out:
A short travel trail bike and this with a 180mm fork up front would cover all the bases for me.
A short travel trail bike and this with a 180mm fork up front would cover all the bases for me.
Exactly. And given they are aiming for similar linkage behavior as the Strike, which is very similar to the SC V10, it could get seriously interesting...
The new Bronson it's almost the same, the main difference it's going to be in the shock.Old graphic is old.
After all, it's 2016.
German bike companys seem to tick the "lot of travel to pedal up hill" box.
Alutech, Nicolai or Litevill come to mind. But yeah, not really mainstream.
Interesting. I only sort of agree. You're definitely right that the leverage rate is kinda flat through the midstroke, but I'm happier with that as a compromise that it sounds like you are. It does make it a little harder to preload when trying to pump off lips and stuff, but on the other hand it does maintain traction really well when charging through choppy small to medium hits at high speed, without being a wallowy mess. To my mind it's more of a tradeoff, and one that I'm pretty happy with, than it is a straight up negative.
I don't think it's a bad bike at all, hence why I've ridden one for the last 5 years. Regarding JUST the leverage curve though, I've ridden a few bikes that are just as smash worthy, but load up a lot more evenly. That's why I didn't include it.
The FSM gave us Ridemonkey, bong shed and VPP leverage curve. Life's good. 
I had an original Uzzi VPX that JUST got retired under the guy I sold it to. It was a little flexy and the rear triangle was splayed beyond the 135/150mm it was supposed to be with the different dropouts so the rear brake was never really aligned but it never broke. And between him and I some violent things were done on that bike.
Come on, stop telling us lies! It has been established that VPP bikes are unridable, so the bike most likely was a wall ornament most of the time.
Come on, stop telling us lies! It has been established that VPP bikes are unridable, so the bike most likely was a wall ornament most of the time.
Well I did rip the derailleur hanger off at the bottom of this in the compression.
respect the fishnetz yo
All that talk about leverage curve makes me (honestly) wonder where my bike falls on the unridable scale.
It's a Pivot Mach5.7c
I absolutely love the bike, but I fear I could have actually been lying to myself all the way...
Seriously, I looked for the leverage curve for the Pivot Mach5.7c but I couldn't find it. Anybody has it? Thanks!
It's a Pivot Mach5.7c
I absolutely love the bike, but I fear I could have actually been lying to myself all the way...
Seriously, I looked for the leverage curve for the Pivot Mach5.7c but I couldn't find it. Anybody has it? Thanks!
It is reasons like this why I vomit in my mouth a little bit every time I hear this whole "air shock tuned leverage curve" ration of bullshit. The available leverage curves on bikes are still ALL over the place. Linear, hyper-progressive, progressive to regressive, regressive to progressive, hugely varying delta's across the curves. Whoever tries to say that their sick new EndurO frame "won't work with a coil because it's slightly tweaked for an air shock" needs a swift kick in the pussy. The actual wheel rate sucks 10x more with an air shock no matter what the frame is just because of the high initial force.
My Devinci Wilson has a pretty damn progressive leverage curve to it, but I just like that it's consistent. It doesn't have anything sudden happening in the stroke. The bike I had prior to that had a hard ramp in the middle, then ALL support disappeared in the end. I hated it. Worked like shit on bumps in the midstroke, and worked like shit on big compressions. Worst of all worlds really. Never knew WTF it was going to do. Sort of the opposite of a 951 where there's zero support then the hardest ramp you could imagine.
A little bit more linear on my Devinci frame would be nice, but certainly not a deal breaker as it still works great. It just has to have a lot of sag to work well in the chunder.
Linear > progressive >>> U shaped/upside down U shaped.
My Devinci Wilson has a pretty damn progressive leverage curve to it, but I just like that it's consistent. It doesn't have anything sudden happening in the stroke. The bike I had prior to that had a hard ramp in the middle, then ALL support disappeared in the end. I hated it. Worked like shit on bumps in the midstroke, and worked like shit on big compressions. Worst of all worlds really. Never knew WTF it was going to do. Sort of the opposite of a 951 where there's zero support then the hardest ramp you could imagine.
A little bit more linear on my Devinci frame would be nice, but certainly not a deal breaker as it still works great. It just has to have a lot of sag to work well in the chunder.
Linear > progressive >>> U shaped/upside down U shaped.
Another option
P