Frank's operation is a bit more involved than a shed.
I've been periodically prodding FTW to build me WTF frame for the last 10 years
2022 Racing/Team Rumors
- Thread starter Redwood Mulch Chucker
- Start date
I've been periodically prodding FTW to build me WTF frame for the last 10 years
Doubly sad because half the time they were all riding prototype Al. frames that seemed to change constantly rather than production bikes. If they limited the geometry of the bike they'll never sell based on the geometry they thought another wholly separate bike would need to be in order to sell that just dumb.
I'd assume Gwin had more say in it, but the bikes didn't seem to fit Gwin's riding style either.
DH is mostly mental(unless you are stuck on kendas) When i’ve worked with fast AF riders in the past with FTW, he always made tweaks the riders asked for to make them “feel” factory,
On Sinister that usually just meant custom geometry via custom length shockstays, and even a few custom front triangles. The R9 was so dialed, kinematically, that it was pretty much impossible to come up with a request for a custom link, especially since Frank busted his ass on the kinematic for years, under his own fast old guy ass testing and developing shock tunes with multiple vendors.
These old dawgs that have been building fs bikes for generations all have their own beliefs and riding styles, and sometimes they don’t quite grasp feedback, or conflicting visions make communication difficult. If a vendor is wed to a certain suspension system, tuning options are limited, even for protos.
I could imagine that “modern” intense is so far removed from the Intense all us old farts grew up with that it’s probably hard even for Steber to get the resources he would like to prototype. When the idiots made the decision to end manufacturing homeboy was pretty much left with a bandsaw, a vertical milling center and a large format printer. Even the tubing for the m16a’s was returned to the vendor that imported it!
As far as i can tell the new Intense is pretty much a moto industry company that sells push bikes to moto people.
On Sinister that usually just meant custom geometry via custom length shockstays, and even a few custom front triangles. The R9 was so dialed, kinematically, that it was pretty much impossible to come up with a request for a custom link, especially since Frank busted his ass on the kinematic for years, under his own fast old guy ass testing and developing shock tunes with multiple vendors.
These old dawgs that have been building fs bikes for generations all have their own beliefs and riding styles, and sometimes they don’t quite grasp feedback, or conflicting visions make communication difficult. If a vendor is wed to a certain suspension system, tuning options are limited, even for protos.
I could imagine that “modern” intense is so far removed from the Intense all us old farts grew up with that it’s probably hard even for Steber to get the resources he would like to prototype. When the idiots made the decision to end manufacturing homeboy was pretty much left with a bandsaw, a vertical milling center and a large format printer. Even the tubing for the m16a’s was returned to the vendor that imported it!
As far as i can tell the new Intense is pretty much a moto industry company that sells push bikes to moto people.
I’d never pay for an Intense, but the asian-made production frames are probably more sorted than those prototypes.
If you look at the CNC parts on the prototypes, they look significantly different to their old style too. So it is fair to assume that he hasn't the same resources anymore and has to settle for less intricate designs due to manufacturing limitations.
The trials frame?Frank's operation is a bit more involved than a shed.
I've been periodically prodding FTW to build me WTF frame for the last 10 years
One constant thought from you guy’s about the Kenda Tire. That is Gwin’s Tire that he put Alot of work into. Yeah I know,some of you think Kenda is Garbage. If it is good enough for Gwin,than it’s good enough for All of us Monday QB’s on the internet,yet alone Niko.
Last,I thought each rider had choice on sponsors? Gwin said he did not want to cut the profit of each rider on Sponser. They All 3 had different outfit’s,does it end there? Outfit? So Niko Had to run Kenda? There is more to story,and we don’t Know Shit.
Avy
Last,I thought each rider had choice on sponsors? Gwin said he did not want to cut the profit of each rider on Sponser. They All 3 had different outfit’s,does it end there? Outfit? So Niko Had to run Kenda? There is more to story,and we don’t Know Shit.
Avy
It's just that in the Downtime interview, he said that Maxxis was the first sponsor that he contacted for his new program and that he was really happy that they accepted. In fact, they did not even let him time to finish his pitch before they cut him to say yes. Then he said that "When you're running Maxxis tires, at least you're on the same level playing field with the other riders", which, in my understanding, sounds like it wasn't the case with his latest sponsor (Kenda).
I thought the latest Kenda prototype looked pretty on point though (2/3 alternating knob pattern a-la Assegai), but maybe the compounds or casings aren't up to the task or they didn't have enough good options for all conditions (something which Maxxis have).
And he also said that him and Aaron didn't really get along with the Intense bike really well. @Avy you should listen to the podcast, it's a really interesting listen!
I thought the latest Kenda prototype looked pretty on point though (2/3 alternating knob pattern a-la Assegai), but maybe the compounds or casings aren't up to the task or they didn't have enough good options for all conditions (something which Maxxis have).
And he also said that him and Aaron didn't really get along with the Intense bike really well. @Avy you should listen to the podcast, it's a really interesting listen!
He knew the Maxxis guys because they sponsor the DHSE (downhill southeast) race series the he and his family run.
Just finished it as well, very informative.
Kenda Hellkat and Pinner Pro seem to get good reviews too, so you might have a point.
What I don't get is, why the could not get the Intense frame to work. It cannot only be the VPP layout as he claims, unless Jeff was not able to manufacture everything they wanted. VPP, DW, FSR are all different ways to skin a cat and end up with similar results with regards to performance parameters.
Yes that's weird. It might not be only thing, but the V10's VPP seems to work well enough for Minaar and the Syndicate.
Maybe Neko was talking about the whole bike not being to his likings as he also alluded to TRP's drivetrain not being the best either (hence why he bought Sram parts for his new build). A bit of the frame kinematics, a bit of the tires, a bit of the drivetrain, it all adds up at this level I guess.
Maybe Neko was talking about the whole bike not being to his likings as he also alluded to TRP's drivetrain not being the best either (hence why he bought Sram parts for his new build). A bit of the frame kinematics, a bit of the tires, a bit of the drivetrain, it all adds up at this level I guess.
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One of the few geometry's that have stayed pretty much the same for quite a while
One thing that really stands out - just how hard Neko works at everything, and how much he's giving back to mountain biking. Not just a WC racer, but runs a race series, two bike parks, charity raffles, and now this. A+.
I agree, I have spent some time around Neko and he and his brother are both good dudes, doing great things for the race scene here on the east coast. Wish him nothing but the best, I am sure these FTW frames will be amazing because he is an OG himself.
Yes he's a real class act and all-around awesome human! I love the behind-the-scenes content like the Downtime Podcast and the FOX Dialed series. I feel like I've learned so much about racing and bike development/industry stuff since I've started listening to those. It's a nice time for people who enjoy everything about of mountain biking (especially downhill).
I started racing around the same time he did (although he was much younger). I'd see him and his dad and brother at just about all the races around the northeast. Back then racing was a very DIY sort of grassroots effort. His new program for the year has that same sort of vibe for sure, and is pretty refreshing imo.
Fun story: my first time meeting Frank he offered to help me and some college buddies cut up a tree we uh, found, in the platty parking lot. We were using handsaws and he busted out a chainsaw from his van. Had a good ripper of a bonfire that night and plenty of beers, as per tradition.
Can't help but to think that Neko is doing his own bike thing for business reasons as much as anything. Perhaps Intense wasn't the greatest bike supplier but I doubt some dude playing around in Linkage can do a better job than actual engineers. That being said, good on him and no matter the motivation I am glad he is doing this, find it to be interesting and will be subscribing to the newsletter.
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You put too much trust in bicycle company engineers.
The question also is, how many people and resources does Intense actually still have? Jeff is not an engineer from what I know, the kinematics design was, at least for the M29, outsourced to Cesar Rojo, the carbon layup to this Seeed company. If they have limited engineering resources, then the question is if they throw them on actual production bikes or prototypes for the team that they know they will not sell.
Fair play but Neko and FTW look to have made an impressive rig between the two of them. You'd think with Intense's heritage they couldn't really fuck it up that bad. They surely have more money and expertise at their disposal than a privateer setup.You put too much trust in bicycle company engineers.
The question also is, how many people and resources does Intense actually still have?
in his interview, Neko really only handled the kinematics and geometry, worked with an engineer in the UK for the actual frame design, and Frank did tube/material selection and fabrication. it sounds like Neko will be working with Cascade components for the links.
This is pretty Intense
INTENSE LLC - Tracking PPP - ProPublica
As part of the Paycheck Protection Program, the federal government has provided hundreds of billions in financial support to banks to make low-interest loans to companies and nonprofit organizations in response to the economic devastation caused by the coronavirus pandemic. Search more than 11...
projects.propublica.org
AARON GWIN - Tracking PPP - ProPublica
As part of the Paycheck Protection Program, the federal government has provided hundreds of billions in financial support to banks to make low-interest loans to companies and nonprofit organizations in response to the economic devastation caused by the coronavirus pandemic. Search more than 11...
projects.propublica.org
sounds a little......This is pretty Intense
INTENSE LLC - Tracking PPP - ProPublica
As part of the Paycheck Protection Program, the federal government has provided hundreds of billions in financial support to banks to make low-interest loans to companies and nonprofit organizations in response to the economic devastation caused by the coronavirus pandemic. Search more than 11...projects.propublica.orgAARON GWIN - Tracking PPP - ProPublica
As part of the Paycheck Protection Program, the federal government has provided hundreds of billions in financial support to banks to make low-interest loans to companies and nonprofit organizations in response to the economic devastation caused by the coronavirus pandemic. Search more than 11...projects.propublica.org
....crooked
unless it's covered by a patent (probably unlikely) there's nothing they can do. even if it was protected IP laws, they can't sue for a prototype, only once it's released for sale (assuming the final version includes the idler).
also it only sounded like they were only referencing the idler configuration for how it was offset from the swingarm pivot
Neko is an incredible rider. If he's putting his name out more to secure his future. It's best done out of the shadow of Gwinn
Thats the one!
a college buddy has two. a stock WTF, and a one off called the magnum opus which is just a longer version (my buddy is like 6' 6"). he says frank doesn't wanna build them because because of how long they take.
This is pretty Intense
INTENSE LLC - Tracking PPP - ProPublica
As part of the Paycheck Protection Program, the federal government has provided hundreds of billions in financial support to banks to make low-interest loans to companies and nonprofit organizations in response to the economic devastation caused by the coronavirus pandemic. Search more than 11...projects.propublica.orgAARON GWIN - Tracking PPP - ProPublica
As part of the Paycheck Protection Program, the federal government has provided hundreds of billions in financial support to banks to make low-interest loans to companies and nonprofit organizations in response to the economic devastation caused by the coronavirus pandemic. Search more than 11...projects.propublica.org
That's some bullshit right there! Because you know the bike industry took a major hit with COVID.....
Just another reason to dislike Rock Jeebus....our taxes are giving him free loans.
Transition got about the same amountThat's some bullshit right there! Because you know the bike industry took a major hit with COVID.....
Just another reason to dislike Rock Jeebus....our taxes are giving him free loans.
Should provide some fuel for the McLaren.That's some bullshit right there! Because you know the bike industry took a major hit with COVID.....
Just another reason to dislike Rock Jeebus....our taxes are giving him free loans.
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Interestingly, not seeing anything for Santa Cruz, Trek, Specialized, Yeti, Guerilla Gravity, or Cannondale.
Same with Evil Bikes.....
Interestingly, not seeing anything for Santa Cruz, Trek, Specialized, Yeti, Guerilla Gravity, or Cannondale.
It says for salary, for Gwin's. Hopefully that was him paying the team and not his pocket.
As for the others...
And these loans are mostly forgiven? I'd like one of those.
As for the others...
And these loans are mostly forgiven? I'd like one of those.
Totally. What was the distributor in the US that laid off a percentage of its employees last year, and then like a month later reported record profits?Because you know the bike industry took a major hit with COVID.....
Singletrack has a pretty neat summary of all the changes happening so far: