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'23 US Open

aaronjb

Turbo Monkey
Jul 22, 2010
1,105
659
Are people really transitioning to do well in unsanctioned whip-off comps?

I'd be worried about the optics of being so concerned about someone's frank and beans with a name like Butch.

We need a better, honest and science-based discussion about how and when transitioning athletes who align their sex with their chosen gender can compete in sport. What we don't need is more hate and anger directed at people who are already struggling and who are ostracized.
 

SuspectDevice

Turbo Monkey
Aug 23, 2002
4,185
401
Roanoke, VA
so.... syndicate picking up a junior for next season?
Asa is very much already under contract for next year for Frameworks, so, basically his own factory team run by Martin Whitely and Neko. I’m sure his results the last few months has helped to bring on additional financial support for the program!!
 

Fool

The Thing cannot be described
Sep 10, 2001
2,833
1,569
Brooklyn
Glad he's not ending up on the Syndicate. Look, I'm not sayin' Minnaar has a history of mental games with the younger riders on his teams, but I'm also not not sayin' it
 

HAB

Chelsea from Seattle
Apr 28, 2007
11,583
2,013
Seattle
Are people really transitioning to do well in unsanctioned whip-off comps?
Exactly.

And even if we take it for granted that a trans woman has some sort of advantage over cis women for having transitioned, people have all sorts of advantages for all sorts of reasons. Is it fair that I wasn't born into Loic Bruni's body? No, but also so what?
 

sethimus

neu bizutch
Feb 5, 2006
5,164
2,319
not in Whistler anymore :/
Exactly.

And even if we take it for granted that a trans woman has some sort of advantage over cis women for having transitioned, people have all sorts of advantages for all sorts of reasons. Is it fair that I wasn't born into Loic Bruni's body? No, but also so what?
so you would be ok with if say a top 60 dh rider, that raced all his life in the mens class, decides at 25 that he is now a woman and wins one womans race after another?
 

ebarker9

Monkey
Oct 2, 2007
861
248
Watched the Wynn TV interviews. Greg stated something to the effect of a part on his bike has broken in basically every race run this year. Wheels? Know he's had issues with flats. Just seems nuts that they haven't been able to sort out whatever it is.
 

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
86,804
25,349
media blackout
so you would be ok with if say a top 60 dh rider, that raced all his life in the mens class, decides at 25 that he is now a woman and wins one womans race after another?
if you honestly think a person would undergo years of medical treatment and at significant financial expense just to win maybe a few thousand dollars in what is basically a niche sport, then I have a nice golf course on mars you may want to consider investing in.
 

ebarker9

Monkey
Oct 2, 2007
861
248
so you would be ok with if say a top 60 dh rider, that raced all his life in the mens class, decides at 25 that he is now a woman and wins one womans race after another?
When exactly was "decides to be a woman" the bar for entry into a sanctioned race?

For a random, unsanctioned whip-off, I pretty much do not care if Jackson Goldstone wants to put on a wig and enter the women's category. For a World Cup or anything else with actual stakes and a governing body, I thought that the rules prior to the UCI's latest change seemed pretty reasonable, though I can certainly understand making adjustments as additional data becomes available (which is not at all what happened with the rules change).
 

HAB

Chelsea from Seattle
Apr 28, 2007
11,583
2,013
Seattle
so you would be ok with if say a top 60 dh rider, that raced all his life in the mens class, decides at 25 that he is now a woman and wins one womans race after another?
If they're actually transitioning / transitioned, yes. I'm not totally sure what I think the exact parameters for those requirements should be, but there's a reasonable line to draw somewhere in there.
 

Inclag

Turbo Monkey
Sep 9, 2001
2,758
446
MA
Watched the Wynn TV interviews. Greg stated something to the effect of a part on his bike has broken in basically every race run this year. Wheels? Know he's had issues with flats. Just seems nuts that they haven't been able to sort out whatever it is.
Heard in my riding circles chat channel that Maxxis was going to be retiring their DH casings and would be moving exclusively to DD with some casing updates.

This was shared before the DH season started so I've kind of been wondering if this has tied into some of the wheel/tire issues that he's been having it seems this year.
 

toodles

ridiculously corgi proportioned
Aug 24, 2004
5,703
5,063
Australia
Heard in my riding circles chat channel that Maxxis was going to be retiring their DH casings and would be moving exclusively to DD with some casing updates.
Hope the updates are good cos current DD wouldn't survive at all.
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
55,080
20,969
Sleazattle
Heard in my riding circles chat channel that Maxxis was going to be retiring their DH casings and would be moving exclusively to DD with some casing updates.

This was shared before the DH season started so I've kind of been wondering if this has tied into some of the wheel/tire issues that he's been having it seems this year.
No one else seems to be having the same problems. I just assume he is old and can't hold his lines with the same precision anymore.
 

aaronjb

Turbo Monkey
Jul 22, 2010
1,105
659
so you would be ok with if say a top 60 dh rider, that raced all his life in the mens class, decides at 25 that he is now a woman and wins one womans race after another?
That's not how any of that works and you fucking know it. Of course no one would be OK with that. I also wouldn't be OK with getting stabbed in the eye, but that's not what we're talking about, is it?

And Rachel Atherton gave birth so we put that theory to rest.
 

shelteringsky

Monkey
May 21, 2010
316
268
That's not how any of that works and you fucking know it. Of course no one would be OK with that. I also wouldn't be OK with getting stabbed in the eye, but that's not what we're talking about, is it?

And Rachel Atherton gave birth so we put that theory to rest.
How do you explain Kate Weatherly's results? A middling DH race career as a male (known as Anton Weatherly). 9th place in a NZ national DH champs, 24 seconds off the win..
1695863728097.png


transitioned and then some podiums and top 10s in women's category at UCI downhill.

1695863492230.png
 

jstuhlman

bagpipe wanker
Dec 3, 2009
16,948
13,482
Cackalacka du Nord
i sure don't care. how are they doing now? obviously not a viable long term contender. did any of the cis women they raced against that year care? i doubt it. dig me up something legit that says otherwise. my take? people take sports-at all levels-way too fucking seriously.
 

aaronjb

Turbo Monkey
Jul 22, 2010
1,105
659
How do you explain Kate Weatherly's results? A middling DH race career as a male (known as Anton Weatherly). 9th place in a NZ national DH champs, 24 seconds off the win..
View attachment 201146

transitioned and then some podiums and top 10s in women's category at UCI downhill.

View attachment 201145
Wow, good work, detective. You cracked the case.

Others might see it as a woman who was doing her best to compete with men in the body she was born with.

Read this interview, where Kate addresses this and more: https://www.wideopenmountainbike.com/2019/07/kate-weatherly-new-zealand-downhill-mountain-biker-interview

It doesn't take any effort at all to be a bigot, but it does take humility and grace to have some understanding.
 

aaronjb

Turbo Monkey
Jul 22, 2010
1,105
659
i sure don't care. how are they doing now? obviously not a viable long term contender. did any of the cis women they raced against that year care? i doubt it. dig me up something legit that says otherwise. my take? people take sports-at all levels-way too fucking seriously.
I think it's all just a preoccupation with the "but where does the weenis go?" question.

Hopefully they're also protesting CrossFit in the name of fairness. The top female competitors are so jacked up on male hormones they have tucking strategies.
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
55,080
20,969
Sleazattle
How do you explain Kate Weatherly's results? A middling DH race career as a male (known as Anton Weatherly). 9th place in a NZ national DH champs, 24 seconds off the win..
View attachment 201146

transitioned and then some podiums and top 10s in women's category at UCI downhill.

View attachment 201145
Women's DH is incredibly non-competitive, results are largely a list of who shows up outside of the top 5 or so. You really need to multiply women's results by about 4 to make a reasonable comparison. Just look at the number of riders attempting to qualify. At Les Gets there were 157 starting men vs 35 women. Sorry to bring math to an argument based on personal insecurities.
 

shelteringsky

Monkey
May 21, 2010
316
268
Women's DH is incredibly non-competitive, results are largely a list of who shows up outside of the top 5 or so. You really need to multiply women's results by about 4 to make a reasonable comparison. Just look at the number of riders attempting to qualify. At Les Gets there were 157 starting men vs 35 women. Sorry to bring math to an argument based on personal insecurities.
Look again at the results, Milkman Dan. Weatherly got two top 5s in 2019 two years after being 25 seconds off the win in men's national race.. One might suspect that the advantages of being born a biological male (which include cognitive advantages such as reaction time and visual acuity) may not be completely ameliorated through hormone blockers..
 

toodles

ridiculously corgi proportioned
Aug 24, 2004
5,703
5,063
Australia
i sure don't care. how are they doing now? obviously not a viable long term contender. did any of the cis women they raced against that year care? i doubt it
Ah yes, the already under-supported womens field would love to speak up and risk losing sponsors. Of all the arguments, that would have to be the weakest one. Several cis women have spoken up in the past and been lambasted or penalised. I wouldn't consider their silence on the matter to be complete acceptance.

I have no real say in the matter being a bloke, but saying the womens field haven't spoken up so they mustn't have an issue is like saying prisoners of war didn't complain about the meal selection so they must have been fine with it.
 

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
86,804
25,349
media blackout
Heard in my riding circles chat channel that Maxxis was going to be retiring their DH casings and would be moving exclusively to DD with some casing updates.
given they have a new DH mud tire they're about to launch i wouldn't be so certain about this one.
 

Avy

Turbo Monkey
Jan 24, 2006
1,243
425
Wow, good work, detective. You cracked the case.

Others might see it as a woman who was doing her best to compete with men in the body she was born with.

Read this interview, where Kate addresses this and more: https://www.wideopenmountainbike.com/2019/07/kate-weatherly-new-zealand-downhill-mountain-biker-interview

It doesn't take any effort at all to be a bigot, but it does take humility and grace to have some understanding.
That is not a being a bigot. Understanding and Grace for what? Crack the case,get outa here with that.

I dont understand how all this is hard for people to understand. Yes,that is her body and feelings about how He feels and wants tobe in life. But that does not mean he has the Right to compete against women,even when his change is complete.

Im not talkin about this whip off,I’m talkin real sports.
Avy
 
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Gary

"S" is for "neo-luddite"
Aug 27, 2002
8,141
5,992
UK
Others might see it as a woman who was doing her best to compete with men in the body she was born with.
what sort of "others"? He's never been a woman. and no matter how many surgeries and hormones he takes never will be.
It doesn't take any effort at all to be a bigot, but it does take humility and grace to have some understanding.
Understanding of what?
He wants to project a himself in the physical form of a "woman"? In most situations/ circumstances where it doesn't affect women. That should be fine!
He wants ALL others to see him as a woman. That's not fine at all.
Not accepting a biological male as anything other than a biological male isn't bigotry. It's basic biology. Changing your physical appearance, clothing, firstname and pumping horomones into one's self doesn't ever change that.

Oh... and. Yes. of course female riders were less than happy about him racing in the Women's categories. But most were afraid to say so publicly.

Out of interest. How many trans people do you know? and how closely do you know them?
 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
what sort of "others"? He's never been a woman. and no matter how many surgeries and hormones he takes never will be.

Understanding of what?
He wants to project a himself in the physical form of a "woman"? In most situations/ circumstances where it doesn't affect women. That should be fine!
He wants ALL others to see him as a woman. That's not fine at all.
Not accepting a biological male as anything other than a biological male isn't bigotry. It's basic biology. Changing your physical appearance, clothing, firstname and pumping horomones into one's self doesn't ever change that.

Oh... and. Yes. of course female riders were less than happy about him racing in the Women's categories. But most were afraid to say so publicly.

Out of interest. How many trans people do you know? and how closely do you know them?
Wow you really are an old dumb bigot fuckwit aren't you?

I mean I guess I knew it but it's still almost impressive, if it weren't so pathetic.
 

shelteringsky

Monkey
May 21, 2010
316
268
There's been a few instances of people calling others bigots. But I'm yet to see any evidence of bigotry and it's just been a throwaway line... What happened to good faith arguments?

I have absolutely nothing against transgender people. What I do believe is that the benefits of being born a biological male are not entirely eliminated through hormone control/puberty blockers (males also have cognitive advantages that remain unaffected). Can any of you guys "calling out bigotry" refute this with actual evidence?

Mountain bikers are generally a very welcoming community (especially compared to cliquey sports like BMX). I don't think anyone here would have an issue with a MtF transgender rider racing in the men's category or an open category. What would be the big deal?
 

William42

fork ways
Jul 31, 2007
3,946
694
Jesus fucking christ.

I don't think I've ever seen such a group of nerds who have never actually spoken to a women trying to fight their imaginary causes for them as when the topic of trans athletes in sports comes up.