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29/26ers

MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
11,669
1,713
chez moi
Just pondering here, and I don't know why, as I was initially trying to sell off most my bike stuff...but...

I'm getting this insane urge to rebuild my Evil Sovereign with a 29" rigid fork/wheel. Maybe singlespeed, probably geared in the back...

The Zion fork is 475mm and the Surly is 468, which is a little lower than my TALAS at full extension. Probably longer than I'd like for a real XC bike, but not too bad.

Anyone doing this successfully? MMcG had a frankenbike like this, right? How does the bigger front end roll/compensate for lack of suspension?
 

MMcG

Ride till you puke!
Dec 10, 2002
15,457
12
Burlington, Connecticut
MikeD - If you go for it, Look for a suspension corrected 26" fork that has enough axle to crown height - say like a Zion 26er or maybe a Surly Instigator fork. I wouldn't go lower than 425mm AC height though as then you wouldn't have much mud clearance. I think the Salsa Cromoto fork is 425mm AC - that would be money!

Then get a 29er wheel, a big fat Panaracer Rampage tire and have at it!

You would be better off with a lower axle to crown fork than a true 29er rigid fork for this application.

It'll roll over obstacles like logs and rocks and whatnot quite nicely, but then you just might want to have the same size wheel in back. ;)

Go for it!
 

MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
11,669
1,713
chez moi
Thanks...good idea. I'm just unsure of what's actually going to end up fitting if I get the 26" fork...which did you use?
 

MMcG

Ride till you puke!
Dec 10, 2002
15,457
12
Burlington, Connecticut
Thanks...good idea. I'm just unsure of what's actually going to end up fitting if I get the 26" fork...which did you use?
I used a Dimension disc fork first 413mm AC height - mimimal tire clearance. Then I tried a Zion 26" fork - suspension corrected for a 100mm Zoke I think - ample clearance, but too slack in the end.

Try the Instigator fork out - should be able to find one cheap. Or look on ebay or mtbr.com for rigid forks in and around the 430mm 440 mmAC height range - should be spot on.
 

Cloxxki

Chimp
May 9, 2006
56
0
I think I did an FAQ on such halfbreeed setups on MTBR, somewhere :-)
There's also a gallery out there of such conversions.

Take your current 26" fork's sagged axle-crow, deduct 31mm, and get that fork. Ideally, one with a bit more rake than your current 26" fork.

Something between 420 and 447mm (the Instigator) indeed should make for a decent fit without altering your bike's fit.
 

MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
11,669
1,713
chez moi
Hmmm, hadn't considered the Monocog fork...where did you get it?

I was just about to get the bike (sovereign) set up with:

Instigator fork
Relace my hope front hub to a Ryno 29" rim
1x9 gear setup, and old LX cranks w/bash
Kenda Nevegals 2.1 f/r (or maybe something slicker in back, dunno)
Titec flat tracker bar and my old stubby barends
Prolly my 100mm stem-maybe a 70mm, depending on how it fits...(frame is size long)
Superlight performance brand seat, thomson post
Rear Hope/Mavic 521 wheel I have sitting around
Hayes 6" f/r

Should be fun to give it a try...!
 

MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
11,669
1,713
chez moi
Alright, about ready to order from Webcyclery.

I want the Salsa fork, b/c I forgot about the little bit of extra height on the wheel...the Instigator would be perfect w/ a 26", but not with the 29". It'd work, but I wanted a slightly sharper feel.

So...can anyone guess if the Salsa fork will fit a 29" 2.3 Exiwolf or 2.1 Nevegal/Smallblock 8 tire?
 

MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
11,669
1,713
chez moi
Rock on; thanks. Looks like Bikeman is the only Internet shop which has everything I need in one shot; just have to send them my front hub!

And I need to decide between basic black and heinous frankenbike orange forks.
 

MMcG

Ride till you puke!
Dec 10, 2002
15,457
12
Burlington, Connecticut
Rock on; thanks. Looks like Bikeman is the only Internet shop which has everything I need in one shot; just have to send them my front hub!

And I need to decide between basic black and heinous frankenbike orange forks.
Bikeman is a great shop to deal with if you are doing a 96er - they are the shop behind the Carver 96er frames - so they should be able to confirm on fork axle to crown heights etc. etc.

Keep us posted.

I rode a Fetish Fixation 96er briefly on Saturday - it had an Instigator up front and it felt very quick for a 96er. I think it had geometry that lended itself well to the set up.

Cheers,

Mark
 

MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
11,669
1,713
chez moi
Well, now waiting on the wheelbuild and return shipping.

Salsa fork, Hope hub-14g-Salsa Delgado wheel, 2.55 Wierwolf LT 29" tire (!).

Going on an Evil Sovereign, with Hayes brakes (prolly do 6" rotors to start...), a 70mm stem with flat bars, older LX cranks, 1x9 drivetrain (again, to start...might singlespeed her later...), yadda yadda.
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
54,241
20,022
Sleazattle
Westy what would you use for a fork for that type of set up?
Since it has a 7" fork on there now I'm guessing a 4 or 5 inch 29er fork. Unless I score a great deal on something I probably won't do it as it would be an expensive experiment, that is unless I decide to take that investment and put it on a Sultan further down the road.
 

MMcG

Ride till you puke!
Dec 10, 2002
15,457
12
Burlington, Connecticut
Since it has a 7" fork on there now I'm guessing a 4 or 5 inch 29er fork. Unless I score a great deal on something I probably won't do it as it would be an expensive experiment, that is unless I decide to take that investment and put it on a Sultan further down the road.

I know it would be a pain in the rear -but if you parted that Gemini out you'd sell the parts fairly quickly and maybe even make more money than trying to sell it complete.

Save up for a Sultan!
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
54,241
20,022
Sleazattle
I know it would be a pain in the rear -but if you parted that Gemini out you'd sell the parts fairly quickly and maybe even make more money than trying to sell it complete.

Save up for a Sultan!
I'm not really trying to make money on it, just want to get rid of it. However I am a dumbass and while talking to a prospective buyer last night realized it is a medium and not a small like I have been advertizing. I need to pay more attention.

I plan on getting rid of the 575 frame too. I need something bigger. Not sure if I want to get a 5-Spot, Sultan or just build up a second Flux built a little heavier. I don't really want a longer travel bike just something a little tougher with slacker angles for the steeper mountain stuff. The Sultan seems to be designed for such a thing but I'd be worried it wouldn't handle some of the really tight stuff we have around here. The Flux already is slower in the tight stuff than my old Superlight was.
 

MMcG

Ride till you puke!
Dec 10, 2002
15,457
12
Burlington, Connecticut
I'm not really trying to make money on it, just want to get rid of it. However I am a dumbass and while talking to a prospective buyer last night realized it is a medium and not a small like I have been advertizing. I need to pay more attention.

I plan on getting rid of the 575 frame too. I need something bigger. Not sure if I want to get a 5-Spot, Sultan or just build up a second Flux built a little heavier. I don't really want a longer travel bike just something a little tougher with slacker angles for the steeper mountain stuff. The Sultan seems to be designed for such a thing but I'd be worried it wouldn't handle some of the really tight stuff we have around here. The Flux already is slower in the tight stuff than my old Superlight was.

Yeah If I had known way back when it was a medium I would have bought it from you months ago (but then again I'd now be trying to sell it! ha!)

I betcha you can find a guy or two to test ride a Sultan in your neck of the woods. It might be a bit slower in tight stuff, but it would haul ass down stuff and it might be a more "forgiving" ride for your endurance type events.
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
54,241
20,022
Sleazattle
Yeah If I had known way back when it was a medium I would have bought it from you months ago (but then again I'd now be trying to sell it! ha!)

I betcha you can find a guy or two to test ride a Sultan in your neck of the woods. It might be a bit slower in tight stuff, but it would haul ass down stuff and it might be a more "forgiving" ride for your endurance type events.
I doubt I will ever see a Sultan locally. I only know of one other Turner owner in the area.
 

ÆX

Turbo Monkey
Sep 8, 2001
4,920
17
NM

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
54,241
20,022
Sleazattle
Thanks for the heads up BCD but I'm not really looking for DH type stuff. The reason I'm interested in 29" stuff is because I want a trail bike without that much travel and thought the big wheels were a good compromise.

I did get to ride a Sultan at the Leesburg Bakers Dozen. They had a whole bunch of demo bikes. It was the same size as my Flux so it fit me perfectly and was a great way to compare. Unfortunately the trail was not a good place to really test, not technical, flat, nothing like the stuff I normally ride but here is what I took out of it.

Pros:
-Stable handling, once I got the bike turned in it tracked great through corners. Felt solid and planted.
-Endo friendly: There were a couple of small drops I rolled and some log jumps I purposely rode over nose heavy. It felt like it would really be hard to go OTB and was confidence inspiring.
-It did roll over large roots and rocks better, just enough to notice.

Cons:
-Although it was a light bike it pedaled like a heavy bike. Whether it was the larger wheels, longer stays or both when I jammed on the pedals it just felt sluggish. I like bikes to feel snappy. It did however bunny hop just as well as the Flux.
-Sluggish. All that stability makes agility suffer. Normal cornering I had to put a lot more body english into getting it to turn in. Just a different way of riding so no big deal but the few tight S-curves I hit I had problems turning in quick enough and went wide. It felt more like riding my motorcycle than a mountainbike.
-Crappy brakes: Brakes felt weak, this could have been a crappy set up on the demo bike but the increased leverage on the disks and more inertia had to contribute.


In all I'm interested in seeing if I can ride one again on some better trails but not intrigued enough to go out and buy a new frame/fork/wheels sight unseen.
 

MMcG

Ride till you puke!
Dec 10, 2002
15,457
12
Burlington, Connecticut
That's great that you were able to get on one Westy.

Perhaps another frame to keep an eye on is the upcoming Niner JET 9 - this will be a 3 inch travel FS frame from the boys at Niner - should be lighter than a Sultan and perhaps give just enough travel for your purposes.
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
54,241
20,022
Sleazattle
That's great that you were able to get on one Westy.

Perhaps another frame to keep an eye on is the upcoming Niner JET 9 - this will be a 3 inch travel FS frame from the boys at Niner - should be lighter than a Sultan and perhaps give just enough travel for your purposes.

I was fine with the overall weight and the suspension on the bike, that aspect felt just like my Flux which I love. My concern is just agility and snappyness which I'm sure is an attribute of the wheel size rather than the amount of suspension. Hopefully I'll get the opportunity to check one out in the mountains.
 

MMcG

Ride till you puke!
Dec 10, 2002
15,457
12
Burlington, Connecticut
I was fine with the overall weight and the suspension on the bike, that aspect felt just like my Flux which I love. My concern is just agility and snappyness which I'm sure is an attribute of the wheel size rather than the amount of suspension. Hopefully I'll get the opportunity to check one out in the mountains.

It may also have a lot to do with current 29er fork designs. Namely the amount of fork offset. I think many of the new forks on the horizon will help with this aspect as well.

For example, my Inbred has a fork with 47mm offset - and it makes my Inbred by far the most responsive 29er I've ridden amongh the the three I've owned that have used either a REba up front or a Surly KM fork (both with 38mm of offset).

Just something to consider as well.

Mark
 

Cloxxki

Chimp
May 9, 2006
56
0
It may also have a lot to do with current 29er fork designs. Namely the amount of fork offset. I think many of the new forks on the horizon will help with this aspect as well.

For example, my Inbred has a fork with 47mm offset - and it makes my Inbred by far the most responsive 29er I've ridden amongh the the three I've owned that have used either a REba up front or a Surly KM fork (both with 38mm of offset).

Just something to consider as well.

Mark
I thought the KM fork was 43mm and the Reba 39mm, but indeed a difference.

One thing that made 29" seem to pedal heavy for me in the beginning was running 175mm cranks and non-adjusted gearing. For some reason I seemed to select the same exact ratios as with 26", in stead of just shifting one cog bigger to make up for the ~10% larger wheels. Once you overcome that, the heavy feeling is gone IME.
 

jncarpenter

Monkey
Apr 1, 2002
662
0
lynchburg, VA
Westy, I am late noticing this thread however...a few thoughts:

-I am in Lynchburg & ride C-ville area often so if you are in that vicinity....hit me up for a test ride (large frame).

-I am surprised you found the Sultan to feel sluggish...I spent 2 years on a 5 Spot & don't find the Sultan to give up anything at all in handling to the Spot. Perhaps you are just accustomed to your Flux, many mistake the Sultan for a 29" version of the Flux, but Dave actually designed it to parallel the 5 Spot in handling & intended use. I find mine to handle quite snappy actually...I am currently looking for a longer fork as I feel the Reba tends to feel to quick on the front (in the mts.). I would prefer a bit slacker feeling front end...perhaps the new manitou will be just the ticket.


Sultan: 28.5 lbs


-
 

MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
11,669
1,713
chez moi
Well, parts came in today...got it built up to ride tomorrow. Not perfect yet, but it should be fun. Please, no one rat me out to the Internet Bike Police...I'll be extraordinarily-rendered to Egypt if they notice the 8" rear rotor with the 6" front. (Have any of you seen my rear 6" Hayes adapter???!) I think the shorty left handgrip is, at most, just a misdemeanor, however. Hopefully they'll let me slide on the spacer stack while I get my bars situated properly, too.

Also not too digging my rear tire choice, but I thought it was pretty silly to buy a new tire when my storage cube is overflowing with them. Just gonna wait until it goes a little more bald and we should be fine.

Currently running a 1x8 SRAM drivetrain, and will likely try a dual-drive singlespeed setup in the future when I can scare up some cassette spacers for my DX cogs.



 

MMcG

Ride till you puke!
Dec 10, 2002
15,457
12
Burlington, Connecticut
Keep us posted on how the ride goes.

You know - if you were to somehow remove a little bit of that tubing that sticks out beyoned the tt - you could fit a 29" wheel in the back of that thing.

powersusa experiemented and it "almost" fit - it was really super close. But it did raise the bottom bracket up mighty high if I recall.

That front tire - is that a Weirwolf 2.5? Looks mighty fat!

Mark
 

jncarpenter

Monkey
Apr 1, 2002
662
0
lynchburg, VA
Keep us posted on how the ride goes.

You know - if you were to somehow remove a little bit of that tubing that sticks out beyoned the tt - you could fit a 29" wheel in the back of that thing.

powersusa experiemented and it "almost" fit - it was really super close. But it did raise the bottom bracket up mighty high if I recall.

That front tire - is that a Weirwolf 2.5? Looks mighty fat!

Mark
...I tried a 29" wheel on mine as well & it wasn't really that close. Maybe if you ran it with a 1.7" tire or something useless like that...but any real tire (+2.1") isn't close.
 

MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
11,669
1,713
chez moi
Well, first ride was fun. I might go back to having a granny gear, though...all thoughts of singlespeeding it are now put aside. Hills here are steep and I don't ride enough to stay strong enough to SS them.

Actually, some small gearing tweaks will probably be enough to make the 1x8 work. Anyhow, I was surprised at how fast I could take things on a rigid bike. The 29" wheel didn't feel that different to me, but maybe if I'd been running a 26" rigid setup, I'd notice more of a difference.

No toe overlap with my clipless pedals...might be a problem with flats, though. (Do need to swap the Time Zs for some regular ATACs...the Zs don't mesh well with my new shoes.)

So yeah, the meat of it is that I'm happy with the ride. Makes simple things fun again. I noticed the biggest difference with the rigid fork in climbing...things I'd have powered over with front and/or dual suspension tended to hang me up. It's a matter of technique and momentum, for sure...conditions probably weren't the best for my tires, either.

The 2.55 Wierwolf LT was a pretty good tire...rolled fast, gripped reasonably well even in today's moist and slick dirt. Need to drop some pressure on the next ride.

I was happy with my ability to descend techy stuff...I was slower and cautious and didn't get off the ground much, like I might have on a non-rigid, but it was a blast.

So minor tweaks in store for the future, but I see this setup as a keeper for now. Just enjoy the simplicity of doing things the way I did when I started biking and everything was new and fun, minus the need to envy the more expensive and exotic stuff.

Ed: MMcG, no desire for a 29" rear wheel for now...I like my chainstays short