[Cyklist]

Thanks for the comments!

christiaan: The rear mech is only a few grams lighter than the Saint mod.

klunky: If you're serious about doing it send me a PM.

karpi: I modded the shifter the oldschool way by drilling and filing etc. Same thing with the chainguide. And as for the pedals mine came in at 264 gram. The One's are an option of course but I'm more than happy with Avid and the weight difference really is minimal, at least I managed to get rid of 8 grams on these plus ti-bolts etc.

Gary: Thanks man, and good luck with your own chain guide build. The top of mine is a bit more flexy yes but I'm pretty sure it'll work just fine anyway. As for the shifter you can have a look below for a better view, made a hole in the silver one and cut off the black one plus changing the bolts.

seb: Thanks for the suggestions. As for the rear mech I prefer a Shadow or Sram-style mech. And when it comes to the seat clamp most peope seem to forget that this frame (along with most other Trek's) use a 36,4mm clamp.

When it comes to stripping paint and such, sure I'd like to but I won't since I actually do care about re-sale value. If it was up to me I'd have every single thing on the bike painted matte black, that's what I think looks best.
As for the fork of course I won't change it to something lighter that doesn't perform as good.


Anyway, here's a few more pics to either enjoy or hate a bit on!

Cheers!

 

[Cant Climb]

How much did you spend on Ti Bolts.........?

 

[Trekrules]

Cyklist my Trek uses a 34.9mm seatclamp instead of a 36.4mm you mentioned,how was the bike on the DH tracks and was their any difirences between your'e previous session 88?

 

[karpi]

Think about this logically for a moment, less weight means less resistance. That should be all anyone needs to hear for ideas to start going off in their heads about how much better they could ride with a lighter bike. This means that EVERYTHING you do on the bike requires less effort. You could hold your speed longer and slow down later for corners and other obstacles, you will gain speed far easier drastically improving your starts and your exits from corners, the pros are absolutely endless with lighter weight because every single thing you can imagine becomes exponentially easier to accomplish as weight drops.

Another thing everyone is failing to take into consideration is power to weight ratio. A rule of racing any type of machine is that your overall power means nothing if the guy next to you has a better power to weight ratio. Lowering your weight means a better power to weight ratio. In a man powered sport this is a huge deal.

I think the most important thing you said here was the power/weight ratio. This is taken to the extreme by a car comparison. Who has seen top gear on bbc? Well, they try out a car (Ariel Atom) which weighs close to half a ton (or less I blieve, cant remember) and has a 300 horse power engine. They compare the car in terms of performance, speed and handleing to a Ferrari Enzo, which not only cost so much more, but is supposed to be better. Although the idea behind both cars ir radicaly different, the power to weight ratio on the atom makes it accelerate faster (the enzo has more than twice the horse power of the atom) it makes it handle better, and is still crazy fast.

What is also very true, and a thing I had totally forgotten, is the lighter the bike, the less distance it takes to come to a stop because as many of you have stated it carries less momentum, which apparently to most people having more is good... I think you need to get off the burgers.

I do on the other hand have to say, there is (at least to me) a certain limit of weight which if I had the money wouldnt dare to cross, because I believe the bike would feel like a XC bike, and "feel" unstable. I have yet to get on a DH bike which is close to the weight of this, so I can't be to sure.

Jason4 hast a point in saying that it is also very important where exactly on the bike the weight is, since this affects the instant center of gravity directly. I remeber riding my friends 303 DH (the old one) and feeling the center of gravity was real high up (it felt like it was close to the top tube) and thus in the beggining made the bike feel oakward. I believe to have the best cornering characterisitics (talking in terms of weight distribution) is by all means in the center of the bike or at least where you put your feet, ie, right around where the cranks are. More and more we see bikes without straight down tubes. This is not only to make the bike stronger in some regiones but it is also to leave space for shocks, which, in tendency, have started to be placed closer to the BB area, lowering the instant center of gravity that 1.1 kg of weight gives you. If there was a place to add more weight if you will, it would be to the bb area. Last but not least, a couple of years bike, I had an alu handlebar which weigh close to or over 400 grams. I got some money and bought the FSA Carbon handle bar which came in 710 length (that was as long as it went back then) which only weighed 220 (or less). Because this weight was placed up top, a 200 grms difference made a hell of a difference, specially in the handleing.

no to make this long, but here you go, enjoy:

 

[DirtyMike]

I like the idea of a lite bike, I like the arguements as to why each is better, but I still follow what I see on WC courses, and you sure dont see sub 30 pound bikes there... They just dont hold up in those uses.

Here is my take, Build your bikes as you wish, ride your bikes, break your bikes, fix and do it all over again..... Its all good either way


Now IMO, I wouldnt have done this with a session. Specially seeing how the downtubes cant even survive a speed bump on a Dakine shuttle pad without being dented.

 

[iRider]

It's just straight up hilarious that people actually think that weight is a good thing for a peddle bike. This seems to be the only sport where people don't understand that more weight means more resistance.

It is also the only cycling discipline where people take some "cool looking MX kit" over the aerodynamic advantage of a skinsuit....

....and later complain that the sport is not "big enough"!



Now I really fueled the hate, eh?

 

[trib]

I like the way that this forum has a huge thread about getting bikes to below 40lbs that was started about 3 years ago (IIRC) which is full of people trying to get lighter and lighter, and now that someone has made a bike just below 30 opinion has flipped to 'It's too light, it will catastrophically fail if you so much as think of riding it'.

I think it's a cool thing you did, there aren't many bikes that will go through a season without a mechanical so the 'it's going to break' comments are moot.

enjoy your bike

 

[Sandwich]

I like the way that this forum has a huge thread about getting bikes to below 40lbs that was started about 3 years ago (IIRC) which is full of people trying to get lighter and lighter, and now that someone has made a bike just below 30 opinion has flipped to 'It's too light, it will catastrophically fail if you so much as think of riding it'.

I think it's a cool thing you did, there aren't many bikes that will go through a season without a mechanical so the 'it's going to break' comments are moot.

enjoy your bike

I don't really want to start flinging poo, but if you've got lightweight riders who have blown through sets of XTR cranks and gone back to Saint, you don't really have a justification for saying this. I agree, to each his own, but this bike blurs the lines between DH and a trail/all mountain rig. honestly, if I put my boxxer WC on my schwinn homegrown, it doesn't make it a DH rig, and I think this bike is just that...XC parts on a DH frame and fork.

Plus, aluminum top cap bolt? Why not just cinch it down then remove it entirely? You have bolts securing the steerer on the crowns... If you're going for "readjust every run" why not do that as well?

 

[IH8Rice]

but this bike blurs the lines between DH and a trail/all mountain rig. honestly, if I put my boxxer WC on my schwinn homegrown, it doesn't make it a DH rig, and I think this bike is just that...XC parts on a DH frame and fork.

 

[Christiaan]

Cyklist, How are the wheels holding up? Build a set with the same hubs, CX-Ray spokes and brass nipples, but haven’t had time to ride them yet. And wat it easy to convert to tubeless, I tried with normal Dual ply High Rollers, but that is not working, so I will try with UST Maxxis tires

 

[sethimus]

Cyklist, How are the wheels holding up? Build a set with the same hubs, CX-Ray spokes and brass nipples, but haven’t had time to ride them yet. And wat it easy to convert to tubeless, I tried with normal Dual ply High Rollers, but that is not working, so I will try with UST Maxxis tires

aren't you selling these wheels?

 

[downhillracer]

ok. i have a farely light seat on my bike and its pretty damn uncomfortable, that seat is just stupid!

 

[Christiaan]

aren't you selling these wheels?

I was going to, but I might as well mount them on the M6 and use them, hahahha

 

[- seb]

Plus, aluminum top cap bolt? Why not just cinch it down then remove it entirely? You have bolts securing the steerer on the crowns... If you're going for "readjust every run" why not do that as well?

My hope headset came with an ally top cap bolt. Very annoying when it sheared the other day and I had to feck about drilling it out.

FWIW I think the bike is "too light". I'm not hating on it because it's lighter than mine. I'm happy with mine at 35lb. IMHO this guy could have made a solid build at 32-33 that would still be crazy light, but a lot more durable and maintenance free, and would have gotten more praise on here for not cutting corners.

 

[sbabuser]

So should that be the ultimate goal? Praise on this website?
And how long ago was it everyone was running xtr cranks on their dh bike?

 

[Sandwich]

So should that be the ultimate goal? Praise on this website?
And how long ago was it everyone was running xtr cranks on their dh bike?

back then, there were no middle ground options. Hollowtech i XTR cranks were some of the strongest cranks on the market. The step up from there were profiles, and that was it.

Now you have Saints, Gravity Lites, Race Face's new offerings, Truvativ's external lineup....hell, even ISIS was a big step over square taper. I wonder what the old XTR crank weight was compared to modern lightweight DH offerings...

Back to the point, the new XTR is super-lightweight XC dude stuff...and if people are bending them in short time, why are you going to run them on a serious, dedicated DH bike and still call it a DH bike?

 

[matsO]

No light bike on the WC circuit, is that why they stopped racing on this one, because it was too light&bad?

 

[IH8Rice]

No light bike on the WC circuit, is that why they stopped racing on this one, because it was too light&bad?

they stopped racing on it because the team folded

 

[matsO]

ok, so you missed my point, good for you

The honda bike was rediculously light, it was raced on, it won.

 

[time-bomb]

ok, so you missed my point, good for you

The honda bike was rediculously light, it was raced on, it won.

yup, raced on by WC Pros that got replacement parts when ever they needed them or wanted them.

 

[Sandwich]

ok, so you missed my point, good for you

The honda bike was rediculously light, it was raced on, it won.

with a motocross style factory support team riding one off parts....not really comparable to joe blow in the woods....and was it even that light? I thought I had read that it was kind of heavy, compared to others...

 

[Cyklist]

christiaan and trekrules: Haven't been able to ride this one yet, too much snow and too much to do at work. But I have no worries for the wheels, last year I ran a Flow, alu nipples and Supercomp spokes in the rear and it worked just fine. A couple of dings and dents but that's no serious problem on a downhill bike.


When it comes to the fact that there's no bikes this light on the WC circuit, or not even really close, a very big reason is the teams and riders beeing bound to sponsors. Just look at last years worlds, where everyone was trying to make their bikes as light as possible. I mean, Peaty ran 3 ti bolts on his brake disc - tells you a bit how much they tried. Still he had to e.g. run a heavy Avid rotor. One pair of Tune hubs is lighter than one single rear DT hub etc.
It just can't be done today unless you're free to choose whatever parts you want and even modify them a bit.
And moste importantly like I've already said a thousand times, it depends a lot on rider weight and style when it comes to what holds up. Rennie and I obviously can't ride the same bike.


Sandwich: Except for the crankarms, what other parts on the bike is XC parts that's totally inappropriate for downhill riding and that tons of other people doesn't ride?
Is it the pedals? The shifting (people run road mechs ffs)? The Flow rims? The spokes (same as CX Ray that tons of people swear by)? Seatcombo (just because it's stripped doesnt mean it won't hold up)?
And grips doesn't count since they have pretty much nothing to do with mechanicals.

I'm not going for "readjust every run", in fact I hate working on my own bike except for building it. So no need for those kinds of comments. Like I said I rode a 32,25lbs Session all last year, so I have a farily good idea of what holds up and what doesn't. And in fact the only troubles I had was a bent mech hanger, dents and dings in the wheels, having to bleed the brakes and scratches.
That's it.

Now over to crank arms. Sure, I haven't ridden these for downhill yet so we'll see. However, the XT's held up for me last year and XTR is as strong but lighter. That's pretty much what you pay for you know.
XTR M950 (without spider/lockring/bolts) = 371g
XTR M952 (without spider/lockring/bolts) = 420g
XTR M952 (with spider/lockring/bolts etc) = 495g
XTR M970 (with spider/axle/bolt of course) = around 520g
And you have to remember now that there's over ten years of evolution between those cranks, and plenty have happened when it comes to tuning the construction.

Just because someone breaks something doesn't mean I can't get away with it, or at least give it a proper try. People cracked Banshee Scream frames, and they where tanks. Everything can break.


- Seb: Maybe you and others want to have a look at my old bike then if 32-33 is better and praise it more. Because you should know that I couldn't care less, I just made this thread for some interesting discussion and all the laughs I knew I'd get. Remember I'm the one who get's to ride it.

Cheers!

 

[Sandwich]

Dude,
I know you're just stirring the sh*t because you've done it before and you'll do it again...you seem to really get a kick out it. I credit you for being able to get your bike down to such a weight, and as has been discussed last time, you're a lighter rider and I'm amazed that you haven't had any major issues...but to that point- you have a lot of parts that are compromised for weight vs. durability. For me, the elixirs and 180mm would never work, they simply wouldn't provide the power and on the 3 minute runs I do, they would fade away. I personally wouldn't trust an aluminum bolt or carbon washer holding my fork together. I wreck sometimes, and it's great to pick the bike back up and continue. We've already seen point one stems snap and twist, and reputable sources have discounted running ti bolts on your stem. Foam grips twist like crazy for me in the rain...maybe you're a fair weather rider? 10 speed chain on a 7 speed cluster? No bashgaurd- do you never tap a log? To me, a bike like that is better on a forum than on a trail.

I'm sure you'll have a snappy comeback for everything I say....which is great, because you shouldn't let other people's words get to you...but the key word here is reliability, not functionality. I'm sure that bike would work great with a 120lb rider someplace like highland or a bike path, but on rocky trails with an average weight rider (180lbs, lets say) it wouldn't last a full day.

 

[dropmachine]

Ridemonkey.com :: ride what we say, cause we know better then you even if we've never met you, or seen you ride.

 

[Cyklist]

I'm not stirring the ****, I'm just giving my own view and answers to people who basically say this bike is stupid.
And come on man, if you think I get a kick from a forum then you don't know anything about kicks.

You kinda missed my point a little, what I "asked" was if there's any XC-parts on the bike that won't hold up for many riders at all.
Well whatever, it's cool.
As for Elixir's, they're plenty enough for lots of people.
Even if the topcap bolt breaks (pretty unlikely) I won't be sitting there with my handlebars in my arms, what really holds it together is of course the top crown (both around steerer and stanchions). Even though the headset will come loose without the top cap, sure.
Many stems (and especially handlebars) can twist or snap. Not really an argument, just saying. And as for ti bolts I bet there's a very small percentage that breaks. Just a lot of "horror stories/pics" like the clown-suit-pic posted eariler that gets blown up out of proportion.
The grips aren't important, I could run light lockons (which I probably will a rainy weekend) and it'd still be sub30.
10 speed chain isn't much weaker (if at all) than a 9 speed chain, and it's just a trimmed 9-speed DA cassette.
No bash is a risk I'm okay with taking, I won't exactly get hurt from not having a bash. I just have to roll down the hill, remove the chain for the day or get a new sprocket from my car if anything happens.


And I've said so many times that it won't work for everybody. It really doesn't matter if every single thing won't hold up for a heavy guy that maybe isn't too smooth and rides a rough track. So there's really not much use in pointing that out.


dropmachine: You're right, sorry, it's just that we warcraft tards or whatever it was often forget that...

 

[HighMinion]

After reading this thread.....some of you harp on pinkbike........look in the mirror.........

 

[dropmachine]

The mirror doesn't reach. The horse is pretty tall ya know...

 

[CBJ]

Really nice bike.

I think my Sunday is 40 lbs and it was a light bike than what I came from and before that my 2001 Kona Stab Primo beast of a bike. I would love to ride an even lighter bike and have less weight to move around. Light for me makes for a more fun ride. Still light is far from the only goal I would have if I had to build a new bike.

 

[Muerto]

What the hell? It's a bike, it works for Cyklist. Why the **** do other people have to bash it?

It's a light bike. End of story. Be happy someone is pushing the envelope a bit!

 

[Cyklist]

What the hell? It's a bike, it works for Cyklist. Why the **** do other people have to bash it?

It's a light bike. End of story. Be happy someone is pushing the envelope a bit!

 

[IH8Rice]

i kid i kid

 

[bullcrew]

What the hell? It's a bike, it works for Cyklist. Why the **** do other people have to bash it?

It's a light bike. End of story. Be happy someones bike is folding like an envelope!

Dont worry I fixed it for you!

LOL I caught S**T for my bike when it went below 36 and got questioned pretty hard. So dont feel bad or let it get to you.

I give him credit for the build, I give my reason as to why it wouldnt work for me.

So good build! Still say 36-38 is prime for me and 29 is prime for our boy here!
COngrats!!!!

Lets let it be, keep positive discussion and we will watch this season to see what happens!
weee: $20 says the wheels fold first any takers! )

 

[Cyklist]

Dont worry I fixed it for you!

LOL I caught S**T for my bike when it went below 36 and got questioned pretty hard. So dont feel bad or let it get to you.

I give him credit for the build, I give my reason as to why it wouldnt work for me.

So good build! Still say 36-38 is prime for me and 29 is prime for our boy here!
COngrats!!!!

Lets let it be, keep positive discussion and we will watch this season to see what happens!
weee: $20 says the wheels fold first any takers! )

Haha, who'll be the bookie?

 

[tuumbaq]

When it comes to the fact that there's no bikes this light on the WC circuit, or not even really close, a very big reason is the teams and riders beeing bound to sponsors. Just look at last years worlds, where everyone was trying to make their bikes as light as possible. I mean, Peaty ran 3 ti bolts on his brake disc - tells you a bit how much they tried. Still he had to e.g. run a heavy Avid rotor. One pair of Tune hubs is lighter than one single rear DT hub etc.
It just can't be done today unless you're free to choose whatever parts you want and even modify them a bit.
And moste importantly like I've already said a thousand times, it depends a lot on rider weight and style when it comes to what holds up. Rennie and I obviously can't ride the same bike.

And you think that if the weight of their bikes mattered that much, guys like Steve Peat couldnt get all the sponsors he would want? Im pretty sure he can get his current sponsors to make him a 25 pounds bike if he wanted...I bet that if he ran 3 bolts on his rotors its because he knew he wouldn't have a steady, reliable steed if he it'd shave anymore weight anywhere else...not that he couldnt...

I can appreciate what you actually did (its nice to see how light those things can be built) but I dont see the point of spending that much cash to make a bike like that.You either must be very serious about racing or you dont really care how much it cost 'cause regardless how much you weight and how you ride, that thing surely isnt built for day2day/real world riding .In order to ride like I do,I know I need solid wheels, cranks and chain guide.I can see the occasional weekend warrior pulling it off but for most of us , that built kit it's just not practical yet.

Now, why is my Session 88 with Ti-springs, Deemax,Saint cranks, sdg I-Beam seat , full top of the line SRAM weights a whole 8 POUNDS more?

I'm sure I could drop 2 pounds replacing the wheels and cranks,maybe another 2 pounds by drilling holes and lightning up the parts but its still only half way there...I mean . . .Really?I cant even picture how much time I would be wasting waiting if I had even lighter wheels and cranks...Sure is a nice light bike you got yourself there buddy...enjoy it while it last

 

[yopaulie]

"In order to ride like I do, I know I need solid wheels, cranks and chain guide.I can see the occasional weekend warrior pulling it off but for most of us , that built kit it's just not practical yet."



You are not him are you?

90% of the people on her are weekend warriors.

Most "pro riders" wouldn't be caught dead on a forum....for exactly this reason. **** flows from the interweb faster than the NYC sewer!

 

[nolson450]

What is the exact weight of a Session 88 frame? I've searched everywhere, I'm curious to know if it's lighter than a 2010 Glory or my Uzzi VP.

Sick build Cyclist!

 

[DirtyMike]

"In order to ride like I do, I know I need solid wheels, cranks and chain guide.I can see the occasional weekend warrior pulling it off but for most of us , that built kit it's just not practical yet."



You are not him are you?

90% of the people on her are weekend warriors.

Most "pro riders" wouldn't be caught dead on a forum....for exactly this reason. **** flows from the interweb faster than the NYC sewer!

I am a weekend warrior, and I would fold the wheels, bend the cranks, kill the chainring, and probably die when the brakes dont slow me down enough for the speed I am going.

I know Plenty of weekend warriors that are throwing it down nearly as hard as the pros out there.

This bike is a very VERY light build, great for the builder, I hope he rides the **** out of it, but with this particular build, I am guessing he isnt going to be riding the holy **** out of it at all.

 

[tuumbaq]

"In order to ride like I do, I know I need solid wheels, cranks and chain guide.I can see the occasional weekend warrior pulling it off but for most of us , that built kit it's just not practical yet."



You are not him are you?

90% of the people on her are weekend warriors.

Most "pro riders" wouldn't be caught dead on a forum....for exactly this reason. **** flows from the interweb faster than the NYC sewer!

I dont know about you but all of the people I ride with , ride pretty much 5-6 days a week, including 2-3 at the bike park during the season...I assumed most passionate riders would be the same more or less...

Beside, if the OP only rides his bike 1 or 2 days a week, that built his ridiculously expensive for that purpose.

I don't mean to start another debate, just saying thats not the most practical thing I've seen for the purpose its intended to do.

 

[DirtyMike]

Sandwich: Except for the crankarms, what other parts on the bike is XC parts that's totally inappropriate for downhill riding and that tons of other people doesn't ride?
Is it the pedals? The shifting (people run road mechs ffs)? The Flow rims? The spokes (same as CX Ray that tons of people swear by)? Seatcombo (just because it's stripped doesnt mean it won't hold up)?
And grips doesn't count since they have pretty much nothing to do with mechanicals.

I'm not going for "readjust every run", in fact I hate working on my own bike except for building it. So no need for those kinds of comments. Like I said I rode a 32,25lbs Session all last year, so I have a farily good idea of what holds up and what doesn't. And in fact the only troubles I had was a bent mech hanger, dents and dings in the wheels, having to bleed the brakes and scratches.
That's it.



Just because someone breaks something doesn't mean I can't get away with it, or at least give it a proper try. People cracked Banshee Scream frames, and they where tanks. Everything can break.



Cheers!

Not trying to pick on you, not trying to slam yhour bike, just picking off what people are saying here....... First underline... Pretty much every part you listed and then some, flows really are not DH wheels, the spokes are not either, lite riders, and I mean lite do on with them, The seat..... Well its your nutts not mine so go for it. I for one am not going to pick on your grips, I know more than a few that absolutly swear by foam grips, dont mind replacing them on a fairly regular basis.



Second underline...... If you dont like readjusting your bike, you picked some poor parts then. Not that they are not good quality parts, but I hope you are good at truing the wheels, and replacing chain rings

Third underline.... Yes everything breaks.... just some break easier than otehrs under certain situations.

 

[yopaulie]

I dont know about you but all of the people I ride with , ride pretty much 5-6 days a week, including 2-3 at the bike park during the season...I assumed most passionate riders would be the same more or less...

Beside, if the OP only rides his bike 1 or 2 days a week, that built his ridiculously expensive for that purpose.

I don't mean to start another debate, just saying thats not the most practical thing I've seen for the purpose its intended to do.

I feel dirty now that I bit and posted on this subject, so I am going back to lurking and trolling for bike stuff that makes my loins tingle.