[karpi]

And you think that if the weight of their bikes mattered that much, guys like Steve Peat couldnt get all the sponsors he would want? Im pretty sure he can get his current sponsors to make him a 25 pounds bike if he wanted...I bet that if he ran 3 bolts on his rotors its because he knew he wouldn't have a steady, reliable steed if he it'd shave anymore weight anywhere else...not that he couldnt...

Haha, I think this is far from reality. Honestly, if peat and minnar had a choice, do you REALLY THINK that they would have picked the V-10 over any other SC for Camberra? Maybe, we'll never know, but really, 10 inches of travel for a flat course? Yes, they do say that "is the bike for the job"... BS! it isnt, but yes, it all comes down to marketting your product. In DH, pro riders have an imput into part and frame design, but if it would have been there way, Peat would have ran a 240 mm shock on his 2006 V-10, would prorbably ride with less travel and different geometry.... Yes, they are sponsered, so they can get away with bashing components and what not, get it replaced, and that was that, but, unless your James Stewart making 10 Mil a year from MX riding, the corporation owns you if your a pro DH rider.

 

[motomike]

I think that is a sick bike. I'd love to have a run or two on that thing to see how it rides

 

[Steve M]

I think that is a sick bike. I'd love to have a run or two on that thing to see how it rides

Shut up, this is a discussion about the hypotheticals of e-downhill, quit making references to the real world.

Seriously though, that bike'd be fun. I'd probably kill a few of those parts personally but if they work for you then that's awesome.

 

[dropmachine]

Haha, I think this is far from reality. Honestly, if peat and minnar had a choice, do you REALLY THINK that they would have picked the V-10 over any other SC for Camberra....etc

Sorry man, but I disagree. Its not like Specialized had issue with Hill changing over to a shorter bike now did they? And Hill is as big a marketing machine as Peat and Minnaar.

Why is it so hard to accept that a v10, properly and professionally tuned, is as fast as a shorter bike? The V10 is incredibly good at pedalling, and only rides like a 10" bike when you hit the ****. I wouldn't go so far as to call it trail ridable, but in a pinch....

In regards to riders being stuck using sponsors gear, have people forgotten how many riders are on blacked out tires? If riders think theres an advantage, they will take it. They get paid to win remember? If that means putting a sticker over something that isn't quite what it looks like, then I am willing to bet thats what happens.

 

[RayB]

@Cyklist: Fresh bike. Shred gnar. Someday, when I've earned more money than I know how to spend, I might build something similar--just because I want to.

@the rest of you arguing over SOMEBODY ELSE'S bike: Why do you all care so much?

 

[motomike]

Shut up, this is a discussion about the hypotheticals of e-downhill, quit making references to the real world.

Seriously though, that bike'd be fun. I'd probably kill a few of those parts personally but if they work for you then that's awesome.

haha. I'm 130lbs, that looks like a dream bike to me! I bet it rips, regardless of what people say on the internet about it. I really don't see what the fuss is all about, maybe just jealousy.

 

[sethimus]

the spokes are not either

funny, my next wheels are made with sapim cx ray spokes. normally my wheel builder gives a 3 years warranty against spoke breaking, with bladed spokes he gives a 5 years warranty, go figure!

 

[karpi]

Sorry man, but I disagree. Its not like Specialized had issue with Hill changing over to a shorter bike now did they? And Hill is as big a marketing machine as Peat and Minnaar.

Why is it so hard to accept that a v10, properly and professionally tuned, is as fast as a shorter bike? The V10 is incredibly good at pedalling, and only rides like a 10" bike when you hit the ****. I wouldn't go so far as to call it trail ridable, but in a pinch....

In regards to riders being stuck using sponsors gear, have people forgotten how many riders are on blacked out tires? If riders think theres an advantage, they will take it. They get paid to win remember? If that means putting a sticker over something that isn't quite what it looks like, then I am willing to bet thats what happens.

hahah you got me on both terms. I guess it has to do with what sponser will allow/not allow. Sam, Brendan and a bunch of others did ride "smaller" bikes or as we all saw, lighter components, etc, so yes, they do get to run a lot of this they would want for certain courses, but more on over, what I was really trying to say, is even if they do get a lot of trick parts and frames for their bikes it has to be under some sort of regulation from their sponsers. Yes they get costum frames with costum GEO that sometimes last less than a season (who remebers when peat ran the 222 that would break every 2 or 3 months because the tubbing was so thin?), but still, I disagree as to how far they can take this.

Your right, I remember reading somewhere that riders could choice more less what they wanted if they felt it would make their riding safer... hence, tires and markers, etc. Yes riders do have a say, naturally they do, they have to be comfortable when riding... but I insist, sponsers will only let them go so far. If Minnaar would have it his way, I assure you the V-10 would be very different to what it is. No one can argue that any bike that is properly set up is good for a specific use, even if the v10 has 10 of travel, it can be set up to pedal (I don't believe it pedals well, at least no the ones I've tried) and win on courses like camberra under two of the most brilliant riders out there who have a lot of pedal power (Minnaar). I believe, that if it would have really been their say (riders) Minnaar and Peaty would have run on some sort of lightened up D8 with DH specific Geometry, don't you think? Maybe some sort of carbon version, since SC does have the potential of making one.

 

[- seb]

I think you're all hating on this guy a bit much, each to their own and all that!

All I was saying was that if it were my bike I'd have a few heavier/more durable options on it, and it would suit me a lot better yet still be 32-33lb ish, and I think most people feel the same.

 

[downhillracer]

I heard loctite is heavy. Maybe you ought to get some super light weight elmers.

that made my day.

 

[DirtyMike]

funny, my next wheels are made with sapim cx ray spokes. normally my wheel builder gives a 3 years warranty against spoke breaking, with bladed spokes he gives a 5 years warranty, go figure!

Funny, Ive built a few wheels for guys with these spokes...... Did a hell of a job as well.... EVEN my guy who rides like a total puss on a 951 has asked me to swap out the sapim for regular spokes because he is tired of the wheel loosening up every two weeks...... he is also sick of his tires hitting the frame under turning......... The wheels are lighter than you would belive......but weaker as well...... Sorry I know guys love these spokes, and if you keep up with your wheels.... great... BUT they are not for someone who wants to build and forget

I think you're all hating on this guy a bit much, each to their own and all that!

All I was saying was that if it were my bike I'd have a few heavier/more durable options on it, and it would suit me a lot better yet still be 32-33lb ish, and I think most people feel the same.

I hope he goes out and rides the **** out of it. I hope he enjoys it, I dont hate on him at all for it..... just want to be clear about that.... Ill pick on him more for buying a session uin the first place, sad part there is..... I work for treak dealer and I will tell you to buy a different frame.

 

[illnotsick]

If Minnaar would have it his way, I assure you the V-10 would be very different to what it is.

Aren't their bikes different from stock V-10's based on what they say they want? I remember seeing that Peat's top tube is an inch longer than stock because he said he WANTED it that way.

And apparently the V-10 pedals pretty damn well seeing as it went 1 & 2 at worlds where everyone else went with shorter travel, more pedalable bikes. Or did they just let them win because the syndicate paid the other riders off?

OP: Sick build. The only thing I would change is the frame

 

[davec113]

OP: Sick build. The only thing I would change is the frame

You and DM are f'in idiots. Have you even rode a Session 88? Where are the pics of all these f'ed up 88s? They don't seem to be snapping like 951s even though they are over 1 lb lighter. The 2010 Glory is the same weight, almost exactly the same downtube... oh, but all the f'in e-riders haven't determined it'll just dent and break yet I suppose...

 

[time-bomb]

Why is someone a "f'in idiot" just because they have a preference for a different frame? illnotsick didn't even mention something about the frame being bad because it would brake. Maybe, just maybe, he was saying he would change out the frame because he likes something better

Edit: Forgot to finish my thought:

As for DM, well he seems to ride his bike and he works hands-on with bikes in a shop. Therefore he has no business voicing his opinion on a forum

 

[davec113]

Why is someone a "f'in idiot" just because they have a preference for a different frame? illnotsick didn't even mention something about the frame being bad because it would brake. Maybe, just maybe, he was saying he would change out the frame because he likes something better

ok, true. sorry.

Haven't had enuf coffee yet today

 

[illnotsick]

You and DM are f'in idiots. Have you even rode a Session 88? Where are the pics of all these f'ed up 88s? They don't seem to be snapping like 951s even though they are over 1 lb lighter. The 2010 Glory is the same weight, almost exactly the same downtube... oh, but all the f'in e-riders haven't determined it'll just dent and break yet I suppose...

Well I wouldn't be caught dead riding a glory either. Sessions look purrty but I didn't like the floating shock, and the EVO link reminds me of a clapped out kona. I actually do have some riding time on one, and it felt awkward. I'm not worried about it breaking, but I have seen some broken ones, one was from a local guy.

Have YOU even rode a session 88? Or do you just like the flashy colors and sick builds people post of them? To each their own.

 

[IH8Rice]

. I actually do have some riding time on one, and it felt awkward.

i thought the same thing too.

 

[davec113]

Have YOU even rode a session 88? Or do you just like the flashy colors and sick builds people post of them? To each their own.

No, I just own one.

There's quite a few around here and they seem to hold up just fine. One pro managed to break his chainstay, but he's never owned a bike that he didn't break and it lasted longer than most. Trek replaced it immediately.

Most people that ride them think they feel instantly comfortable, but everyone's different. Also, unless you rode one that's the right size, set up for you, it's a little hard to judge.

Maybe it was an overreaction, but this thread is so full of assumptions that have little to do with reality it's ridiculous.

 

[tuumbaq]

No, I just own one.

There's quite a few around here and they seem to hold up just fine. One pro managed to break his chainstay, but he's never owned a bike that he didn't break and it lasted longer than most. Trek replaced it immediately.

Most people that ride them think they feel instantly comfortable, but everyone's different. Also, unless you rode one that's the right size, set up for you, it's a little hard to judge.

Maybe it was an overreaction, but this thread is so full of assumptions that have little to do with reality it's ridiculous.

and I can vouch for the Session as well...I've had one for over a year now, had 80 + days i Whistlers plus countless days riding in the valley and the bike is still going strong...

 

[illnotsick]

No, I just own one.

There's quite a few around here and they seem to hold up just fine. One pro managed to break his chainstay, but he's never owned a bike that he didn't break and it lasted longer than most. Trek replaced it immediately.

Most people that ride them think they feel instantly comfortable, but everyone's different. Also, unless you rode one that's the right size, set up for you, it's a little hard to judge.

Maybe it was an overreaction, but this thread is so full of assumptions that have little to do with reality it's ridiculous.

Well by owning one, you have more say than 95% of the people in this thread...therefore your opinion doesn't count.
The guy I know broke both stays up at the weld. When it happened, the bike dropped and the floating shock smashed a good sized dent in the top of the downtube. I think he had a new rear triangle in under a week though.

 

[William42]

I have one too, and it rides dreamy. I really like it. I'd run that, I'd probably change out the tires for specialized clutch tires, but other then that, I'd run it till I started breaking stuff, then replace it with saint until I stopped breaking things.

Then end up with my bike

 

[DirtyMike]

You and DM are f'in idiots. Have you even rode a Session 88? Where are the pics of all these f'ed up 88s? They don't seem to be snapping like 951s even though they are over 1 lb lighter. The 2010 Glory is the same weight, almost exactly the same downtube... oh, but all the f'in e-riders haven't determined it'll just dent and break yet I suppose...

No idiocy here, Ill see If I can get a pick of my buddies that dented on a dakine shuttle pad when going over a speed bump.


I work for a trek/speccy dealer.... Id much rather sell the Demo to someone because I dont like having to see these come back with dented downtubes.

Gimme a few, Ill messege C now,





Is the bike capable.... Hell yes, does it ride good.... absolutly, Its a little different of a ride than other bikes, but like most bikes its just getting used to it, some bikes feel absolutly off for some people right off the bat....... its a nice bike, its def a race bike though. Tensile wise< think thats the phrase I am looking for> the bike is very strong, impact wise.... it DOES dent too easily.

My prediction for the glory is we will be seeing the same thing happening soon. The very same reason, I belive we have reached the point were we are taking a bit too much metal out of our DH frames. Liteweight guys it works fine......... Im not a liteweight by anymeans, I dont shop for parts by weight, I look for strength. My bike sits just a nuthair under 42 pounds, and I friggin love it. As for other bikes, session, glory, 951 ETC ETC..... I think they are ALL displaying this fact for us now, as we are now seeing more and more broken bikes from situations that they should be holding up in.

 

[Steve M]

No idiocy here, Ill see If I can get a pick of my buddies that dented on a dakine shuttle pad when going over a speed bump.


I work for a trek/speccy dealer.... Id much rather sell the Demo to someone because I dont like having to see these come back with dented downtubes.

Gimme a few, Ill messege C now,





Is the bike capable.... Hell yes, does it ride good.... absolutly, Its a little different of a ride than other bikes, but like most bikes its just getting used to it, some bikes feel absolutly off for some people right off the bat....... its a nice bike, its def a race bike though. Tensile wise< think thats the phrase I am looking for> the bike is very strong, impact wise.... it DOES dent too easily.

My prediction for the glory is we will be seeing the same thing happening soon. The very same reason, I belive we have reached the point were we are taking a bit too much metal out of our DH frames. Liteweight guys it works fine......... Im not a liteweight by anymeans, I dont shop for parts by weight, I look for strength. My bike sits just a nuthair under 42 pounds, and I friggin love it. As for other bikes, session, glory, 951 ETC ETC..... I think they are ALL displaying this fact for us now, as we are now seeing more and more broken bikes from situations that they should be holding up in.

Oh come on, less bike frames are breaking now than they ever did. They're also lighter. Remember the old Giant DH Teams/Comps? Those things had more cracks than a Thai brothel. Trek's last DH bike (the Session 10) was pregnant and weighed about the same as a typical mother/child combination in any country wealthy enough for the average person not to suffer from malnutrition, and Sundays used to dent in the headtube gusset if you crashed and the fork bumpers happened to be lined up with the gusset. There hasn't actually been an Intense DH frame that wasn't prone to breakage, flogging out or generally becoming unrideable in some manner, so it's not like the 951 is much if any worse than the others they've made. Those Socoms had about as much structural strength as the average non-paperclip-reinforced paper plane. In fact the M6 was probably the best of the lot that Intense has made in terms of reliability, but even then they weren't bulletproof. M3 swingarms weren't real great, M1s... well we don't even need to go there. 222s and 223s weren't too hard to break (I used to work for a company that repaired frames, those things were in there all the time), 224s I'm not so sure about but I do know at least one person who's broken one. Even Demos are hardly unbreakable - the 09 Commencals were cracking all over the place back in Aus too.

Honestly, the Session 88 might not be the strongest frame going, but given that there's a lot of em out there and they're getting flogged as hard as anything else, the odd breakage isn't THAT big a deal, and as for denting, well I don't think I've ever had a frame I didn't dent somewhere. Maybe not as easily or frequently as a Session but to claim that one dent means they're massively underbuilt is having a bit of a cry IMO.

 

[RayB]

Oh come on, less bike frames are breaking now than they ever did. They're also lighter. Remember the old Giant DH Teams/Comps? Those things had more cracks than a Thai brothel. Trek's last DH bike (the Session 10) was pregnant and weighed about the same as a typical mother/child combination in any country wealthy enough for the average person not to suffer from malnutrition, and Sundays used to dent in the headtube gusset if you crashed and the fork bumpers happened to be lined up with the gusset. There hasn't actually been an Intense DH frame that wasn't prone to breakage, flogging out or generally becoming unrideable in some manner, so it's not like the 951 is much if any worse than the others they've made. Those Socoms had about as much structural strength as the average non-paperclip-reinforced paper plane. In fact the M6 was probably the best of the lot that Intense has made in terms of reliability, but even then they weren't bulletproof. M3 swingarms weren't real great, M1s... well we don't even need to go there. 222s and 223s weren't too hard to break (I used to work for a company that repaired frames, those things were in there all the time), 224s I'm not so sure about but I do know at least one person who's broken one. Even Demos are hardly unbreakable - the 09 Commencals were cracking all over the place back in Aus too.

Honestly, the Session 88 might not be the strongest frame going, but given that there's a lot of em out there and they're getting flogged as hard as anything else, the odd breakage isn't THAT big a deal, and as for denting, well I don't think I've ever had a frame I didn't dent somewhere. Maybe not as easily or frequently as a Session but to claim that one dent means they're massively underbuilt is having a bit of a cry IMO.

Get this man another beer.

 

[DirtyMike]

Oh come on, less bike frames are breaking now than they ever did. They're also lighter. Remember the old Giant DH Teams/Comps? Those things had more cracks than a Thai brothel. Trek's last DH bike (the Session 10) was pregnant and weighed about the same as a typical mother/child combination in any country wealthy enough for the average person not to suffer from malnutrition, and Sundays used to dent in the headtube gusset if you crashed and the fork bumpers happened to be lined up with the gusset. There hasn't actually been an Intense DH frame that wasn't prone to breakage, flogging out or generally becoming unrideable in some manner, so it's not like the 951 is much if any worse than the others they've made. Those Socoms had about as much structural strength as the average non-paperclip-reinforced paper plane. In fact the M6 was probably the best of the lot that Intense has made in terms of reliability, but even then they weren't bulletproof. M3 swingarms weren't real great, M1s... well we don't even need to go there. 222s and 223s weren't too hard to break (I used to work for a company that repaired frames, those things were in there all the time), 224s I'm not so sure about but I do know at least one person who's broken one. Even Demos are hardly unbreakable - the 09 Commencals were cracking all over the place back in Aus too.

Honestly, the Session 88 might not be the strongest frame going, but given that there's a lot of em out there and they're getting flogged as hard as anything else, the odd breakage isn't THAT big a deal, and as for denting, well I don't think I've ever had a frame I didn't dent somewhere. Maybe not as easily or frequently as a Session but to claim that one dent means they're massively underbuilt is having a bit of a cry IMO.

Good god someone has a chip out for intense.

Ok I think I mistyped what I was trying to say..... Not trying to say that more bikes are breaking, just that we are starting to see breaks that are influenced from the reduction of metal. I truly belive that metalurgy has come leaps and bounds in the biking world, heat treating has come more than ten fold, and we have truly been able to remove ALOT of thickness form a bike frame, I also truly belive we have currently found the limit.

I am also not saying they are massivly underbuilt, Im sayiong that for the price, they should be able to survive the damn shuttle without getting dented, I know my Blindside has gone through hell and back the last year and its scratched, but not dented anywere.... few chips on the chainstays, and everywere you expect to see....... but no dents. My last bike the dirtbag.....I dont even want to start into what kind of abuse I put that one through.... same thing, not a single dent, but it was an effin PIG.....In fact only bike I have had in the past that dented.... GT DHi.... which eventually died like all of those did.

Look its simple, Im not saying the bike is going to explode underneath, im saying for the price I would expect it to hold up better to impacts than it does.

 

[sethimus]

Look its simple, Im not saying the bike is going to explode underneath, im saying for the price I would expect it to hold up better to impacts than it does.

so nobody forces you to ride one, everybody's happy...

 

[poonstar]

i started reading this forum...and i thought i pressed a link to re-direct me to pinkbike lol

like anyone who rides their bike...i always appreciate a nice build despite the fact that the bike of choice may or may not be my preferred ride...i still appreciate the fact that this build took some time and thought to get it down to sub 30 lbs. GREAT JOB!

i have been riding Dh bikes since 1997 and we have seen the sport evolve to a new level with rider skills and suspension technology. its a fact of life...you ride it hard enough it will break. so if you prefer a sub 30lb bike...then why not. like anything else...once you modify it...upgrade it...it is possible that reliability will go down.

i've had a 35lb sunday factory, 37lb x2 makulu's, 36.08lb intense 951, 34lb intense m1, 29lb manitou dh, 38lb stab delux, 26lb boulder xc...and at one point these were all considered too light or too heavy. but at the end of the day if you enjoy it thats all that matters. i think we've all accepted the fact that if we ride our bikes at some point in time something will break. you have to pay to play. but thats just my 2 cents for the day.

 

[tuumbaq]

Look its simple, Im not saying the bike is going to explode underneath, im saying for the price I would expect it to hold up better to impacts than it does.

Im sorry bro but the Session isnt weaker than any other bikes out there, and just because you work in a bike shop, does'nt really gives you a ton of credibility on the topic...not to be rude but in the end, you are just a shop employee for one of the hundreds if not thousands of other Trek dealers.

I dont think it fair to assume you have a good understanding of the big picture.May I ask how many Session your shop has sold last summer? 4- 5 , more ? How many dented frames have you seen coming back?How does that stack up with Trek's global sales for the Session

A buddy of mine had to write off is Demo he had purchased at the start of the season last year.He had 3 MAJOR dents on it and just couldnt ride or sell it anymore.Does that make it a bad bike? I dont think so,any bikes out there can be dent very easily.Dont go thinking the Demo is 1 or 2 pound heavier because Specialized wouldnt make it lighter for durability purposes.I'd bet Its probably because they just can't with their current design.

I've had precisely 84 days in Whistler last summer and been riding my Session nearly everyday during the past year and a half....The frame is primo and rides beautifully still.In fact the only thing that got me worried on it so far are the wheels and the cranks. IMO thats what takes the most beating and wouldnt want to trade weight for durability on those 2 things...Would I ever run XC wheels and XTR cranks? Im not so sure about that one.

 

[gemini2k]

In fact the M6 was probably the best of the lot that Intense has made in terms of reliability, but even then they weren't bulletproof. M3 swingarms weren't real great, M1s... well we don't even need to go there. 222s and 223s weren't too hard to break (I used to work for a company that repaired frames, those things were in there all the time), 224s I'm not so sure about but I do know at least one person who's broken one. Even Demos are hardly unbreakable - the 09 Commencals were cracking all over the place back in Aus too.

It's funny cause almost none of those frames are THAT light either, not heavy, but not much lighter than average. And none of them are even remotely reasonably priced.

 

[gemini2k]

Im sorry bro but the Session isnt weaker than any other bikes out there,

It uses the same alloy and wall thickness as the giant anthem, fact, period, over. No thx Trek.

 

[DirtyMike]

Im sorry bro but the Session isnt weaker than any other bikes out there, and just because you work in a bike shop, does'nt really gives you a ton of credibility on the topic...not to be rude but in the end, you are just a shop employee for one of the hundreds if not thousands of other Trek dealers.

I dont think it fair to assume you have a good understanding of the big picture.May I ask how many Session your shop has sold last summer? 4- 5 , more ? How many dented frames have you seen coming back?How does that stack up with Trek's global sales for the Session

A buddy of mine had to write off is Demo he had purchased at the start of the season last year.He had 3 MAJOR dents on it and just couldnt ride or sell it anymore.Does that make it a bad bike? I dont think so,any bikes out there can be dent very easily.Dont go thinking the Demo is 1 or 2 pound heavier because Specialized wouldnt make it lighter for durability purposes.I'd bet Its probably because they just can't with their current design.

I've had precisely 84 days in Whistler last summer and been riding my Session nearly everyday during the past year and a half....The frame is primo and rides beautifully still.In fact the only thing that got me worried on it so far are the wheels and the cranks. IMO thats what takes the most beating and wouldnt want to trade weight for durability on those 2 things...Would I ever run XC wheels and XTR cranks? Im not so sure about that one.

I think we have moved three, sent back half a dozen or better to check denting to look for cracks all were dented in the downtubes.

I see the big picture just fine, ITS A RACE BIKE made to go fast, its a money mover that sold fast and alot of people picked them up.... then alot of people soon started selling them on ebay.

Again, there are two types of strong.... the session dents too easily, everyone even at Fontana has the same complaint....... They dent too damn easily. I do not come up with this from what I have seen in the shop, its what I am seeing and hearing at the races. EVEN our Trek rep bitches about dealing with pissed off customers with dented bikes from falling over.

Im going to repeat this once again, its not a bad bike at all. Good geo, nice build specs<factory specs> rides well...... Its just not the bike for the average joe looking for something to beat the **** out of.

Also, if youll recall I am also listing that MANY manf's are doing the same thing, going thinner and thinner with their tubing. I feel we have reached a point were we are finding the limits of how thin we can go.








Gemini.... at least someone else realises how thin these tubes are

 

[davec113]

What really matters is if the Session is significantly more prone to denting than other frames. I think it's possible, I got a dt protector on mine, but I'd do the same for any bike I got. They can get dented from shuttling on a tailgate, but that's not hard to prevent. I think if the Session sustains a major dent, than most other frames would have dented as well. A cosmetic dent isn't the end of the world to me, I plan on keeping the bike until it's not worth much anyway. It may be more of an issue for guys who turn bikes over every year though.

Also, I've never seen a front triangle break. The chainstays need to be beefed up, or just welded at more of an angle, but Trek is replacing them quickly and without hassle. Considering how many are out there, the frequency of breaking seems low.

And, despite the light weight, the frame is very, very stiff and feels really solid on the trail. Tracks and corners beautifully... I wouldn't hesitate to recommend it to the "average joe". Mr. Avg. Joe isn't buying $4-6k dh race bikes anyway.

 

[Steve M]

Good god someone has a chip out for intense.

Ok I think I mistyped what I was trying to say..... Not trying to say that more bikes are breaking, just that we are starting to see breaks that are influenced from the reduction of metal. I truly belive that metalurgy has come leaps and bounds in the biking world, heat treating has come more than ten fold, and we have truly been able to remove ALOT of thickness form a bike frame, I also truly belive we have currently found the limit.

I am also not saying they are massivly underbuilt, Im sayiong that for the price, they should be able to survive the damn shuttle without getting dented, I know my Blindside has gone through hell and back the last year and its scratched, but not dented anywere.... few chips on the chainstays, and everywere you expect to see....... but no dents. My last bike the dirtbag.....I dont even want to start into what kind of abuse I put that one through.... same thing, not a single dent, but it was an effin PIG.....In fact only bike I have had in the past that dented.... GT DHi.... which eventually died like all of those did.

Look its simple, Im not saying the bike is going to explode underneath, im saying for the price I would expect it to hold up better to impacts than it does.

Actually I think a lot of Intense bikes are/were brilliant to ride, the M1 and the Tazer in particular were groundbreaking bikes that set the standard for years. They just haven't made a habit of staying in one piece. Nothing against the company at all, main reason I've never owned one and probably never will is the high cost and apparently low emphasis on strength - always been options I've found preferable to whatever Intense's offerings at the time were (ie, ones I could afford). Not to say I hate them, I just wouldn't buy one.

As for denting - yeah fair enough if they're copping it that bad, but you gotta look at it the same way as scratches/gouges: is it a problem structurally or is it just cosmetic? Cos if it's just cosmetic then suck it up IMO, if it's actually damaging the frame in such a way that they're likely to fail then yes that is a problem.

 

[Udi]

Because Ti bolts under shear force is a huge no no.

3x Ti bolts per rotor for 3 years, 3 race seasons, and chairlifted riding in 3 countries (including the swiss alps) beg to differ.

 

[Steve M]

3x Ti bolts per rotor for 3 years, 3 race seasons, and chairlifted riding in 3 countries (including the swiss alps) beg to differ.

Disclaimer: this is coming from the same guy whose approach to saving weight included removing his spleen.

 

[Udi]

And second of all 99% of you haven't spent much time on a downhill bike below 35. So how does a bike that light ride then?
It's a blast, so damn much fun.

I have and I'd agree, except the fun ends once you start destroying things and it ruins your day. From personal experience, a few things I'd destroy on your bike (and I only weigh 150lbs):

- XTR cranks. A good clip of a rock/log and the crankarm will bend and/or pedal threads will strip. No steel inserts.
- Chainring. The new LG1+ is a very light guide, and for once I think a company did an excellent job of removing every last bit of weight (full aluminium hardware, lots of plastic, extensive machining in alloy). You just undid all that good by removing the bashguard which isn't even that heavy (heavily honeycombed plastic).
- Hubs. Props for choosing a rare and boutique item but I've seen plenty of these with cracked flanges and shells. Wouldn't be my choice.
- Alloy nipples. Ran them for a season (DT) and noticed about 30% of them had stress fractures, and many of them broke in use.

Anyone can build a 29lb DH bike, but not everyone can build one that will hold up to real-world DH abuse or WC level riding.

 

[IH8Rice]

3x Ti bolts per rotor for 3 years, 3 race seasons, and chairlifted riding in 3 countries (including the swiss alps) beg to differ.

its still a huge no no

 

[davec113]

3x Ti bolts per rotor for 3 years, 3 race seasons, and chairlifted riding in 3 countries (including the swiss alps) beg to differ.

Ti has about 1/2 the tensile strength of steel, so can only clamp 1/2 as hard before they will fail. 3 Ti bolts per rotor would have 1/4 the total clamping force as 6 steel bolts if they were both torqued properly.

Rotor bolts would only see shear if the friction between the rotor and hub formed by the clamping force of the bolts was overcome by the force the caliper exerts on the rotor.

 

[Udi]

Forgive me for posting my real world experience.

 

[Udi]

Also, clamping force is a function of bolt torque - and from all documentation I've seen, the torque value does not change from steel to titanium bolts... so the higher tensile strength of steel is irrelevant unless you are utilising it, which in this case you are not. [Edit - an engineer can correct me if I'm wrong there, just occured to me that I might be haha]

As for the shear forces, that's not something I wrote (Inclag did) - but you'll notice a lot of brake manufacturers recommend rotating and holding the rotor in the direction that it gets pulled in while tightening the bolts, and if you didn't do that I have no doubt the rotor would settle into that position anyway; so I think it would be incorrect to say there are no shear forces in play.

Regardless, I've had no problems with the Ti bolts holding up in the rotor application, the only problems I've seen are with stripped heads if you use too strong a loctite grade on assembly. The Ti bolts are also machined more precisely from what I've seen, and have a flat section where the rotor contacts them, unlike the regular threads on the steel bolts.