[Udi]

Regarding the pinkbike data - I wasn't using that as a point of argument in either direction - I agree with you both regarding the results (not being conclusive), but the data itself is valid. I think people should (as I usually recommend) ignore the article text, and only look at the dataset. I do feel it tells a different story to the marketing-driven conclusion - the numbers were pretty close.

My point was that a few people posting here who strongly oppose change (it's always the same names) have rarely conducted testing that even remotely approaches "valid", and having made the same mistake in the past (and corrected it recently), this time I'd like to reserve judgement until I can test things properly myself again.

For anyone interested, my brief conclusions on 650b was that it not only faster (times), but made riding long rough runs substantially more enjoyable due to the big reduction in force transfer to the rider. I also found that the advantages were significantly more pronounced when only running 650b on the front (with much less difference noticeable on the rear) - so for those who aren't bound by racing rules - running a big wheel just on the front can make for an enjoyable compromise between the different options. On the downside I also had to make some compromises to keep my bike weight the same which I'm not happy about, and braking force went down noticeably (from 26 to 650) so I had to switch to a more powerful brake as well. The net result was positive however and I hope that more parts choices open up in the future to reduce the compromises.

Given the experience I had trying 650b on both ends vs. just on the front, if I try 29 for DH I'll probably try it just on the front first (and reset geo), I have a feeling my results will be similar to last time.

 

[6thElement]

For someone over 6' not as big of a deal. If Cathro was serious in his video, it sounds like that exact scenario killed Gee Atherton.

Watching finals, I thought Hart's crash looked like he may have been able to avoid it with a smaller wheeled bike.

 

[Gary]

For anyone interested, my brief conclusions on 650b was that it not only faster (times), but made riding long rough runs substantially more enjoyable due to the big reduction in force transfer to the rider. I also found that the advantages were significantly more pronounced when only running 650b on the front (with much less difference noticeable on the rear) - so for those who aren't bound by racing rules - running a big wheel just on the front

I don't really get your statement here.
How can you possibly say what is or is not more enjoyable for others?
I personally don't care about going any faster than I can on 26" wheels. Why? Because I'm no longer racing. What I do care about is how my bike handles. especially how it turns, how manoeuvrable and playful it is. I actually don't want all that extra stability and comfort so many seem to now crave in a new bike.
Which begs the question. Why if you're not racing would you even want to stick a 650 on the front of your play sled?

One of the most fun times I've had DHing in the last year or two was a day at Fort William on a 120mm 26" slope bike... Why? because it's a tired old track I've been riding down for 20 years and done well over 1000 runs on and the little bike made me have to think differently. I only took the little bike because my DH bike was in bits but in the end I reckon i had far more fun and actually wasn't all that much slower once you got the hang of using it's positive traits to your benefit. Of course it was less comfortable but I'm not a baby. Stability was never an issue. I'm fairly sure many cyclists do not understand what fun is. (I'm talking all disciplines here. not just mtb nevermind DH)

 

[Gary]

Watching finals, I thought Hart's crash looked like he may have been able to avoid it with a smaller wheeled bike.

Yeah. but now he's been "turned" are you sure he'd have even been able to make it to that point in the track on l'il wheels in a one'r?

"oooh yaaah oooh yaaah oooh yaah! Mummy Mummy! ma hands are sore"

 

[Udi]

I didn't say "for others". I was giving my experiences after my testing, where I made a very conscious effort to make the comparison as objective as possible

As for the answers to your questions, I actually gave them already - but for your benefit again - being able to plow rougher sections with less pain made it way more fun to ride. Noticeably, it made the force (exerted on the rider) from braking bumps much less sharp/harsh, which cut down fatigue both instantaneous and towards the end of a run.

Anyway - "fun" is subjective - but after giving it a very fair go, I liked it. Also, for the record, the most enjoyable setup for me was the 650F / 26R combo - I felt it was a real good blend of motoring ability and still being able to shred corners (and not have to make a bunch of compromises in build). I run 650F / 650R now for what it's worth (and have been for a while), but I still feel the same way.

I'm fairly sure many cyclists do not understand what fun is.

Yeah, if there's one thing I've noticed at the bikepark, most people there are absolutely hating life. I should bring you along as my guest speaker to lift spirits a little.

 

[Jm_]

After the mfrs get their mileage out of 29er DH and aggressive AM bikes, they'll be pushing the "mixer" bikes with 29F and 27.5R, or something like that. I think that ultimately gives you a lot of the benefits, like just rolling over wheel-catchers, without as much penalty with heavy DH rubber on 29" wheels.

 

[4130biker]

Hey guys, new season of trailer park boys is up!

 

[Udi]

After the mfrs get their mileage out of 29er DH and aggressive AM bikes, they'll be pushing the "mixer" bikes with 29F and 27.5R, or something like that. I think that ultimately gives you a lot of the benefits, like just rolling over wheel-catchers, without as much penalty with heavy DH rubber

We could call it "the bighit" and call the suspension "future suspension: rear" in case people are unsure which end their suspension from the future is on.

I'm probably biased though, my rig from 05/06:

 

[iRider]

We could call it "the bighit" and call the suspension "future suspension: rear" in case people are unsure which end their suspension from the future is on.

I'm probably biased though, my rig from 05/06:

Nice pool!

And I am glad that you are still around. How did you survive riding even tinier wheels than 26"?

 

[Udi]

#24ain'tdead
#24_4_eva
#26_sux

Seriously, the IH Sunday couldn't have come faster...

 

[troy]

Is 29er faster in the hands of pro athlete? Probably yes.
How much faster is it? Let's say 3-4 sec on a 5 min. track.

Are You a pro athlete? Probably no.
Will You be faster on a 29er, after getting used to it? Probably yes.
Does that mean that Your 26" or 27.5" bike sucks? Probably no.
Are You so fuckin slow because of Your bike? Probably no.
Will 29er be more fun to ride? Probably no.
Will it cost a fuckin fortune? Probably yes.

Thank You for You attention.

 

[Jeremy R]

Here is my recent depression inducing test ride:
I recently went to a Santa Cruz demo on my local trail. It is a 6 mile loop on big rolling hills. It was a machine built trail, but built by a builder who left as many rocks and roots on the trail as possible. I prefer riding my ti switchback here, and I have set my fastest times there on it as well, so it is not overly rough.
So, first I did a loop on a medium 5010. Wow, Santa Cruz sizing is still weird as this bike felt tiny. That said, this bike was a blast on this loop. It reminded me of a lighter version of my old Transition Scout. It left the ground super easy and was a fun bike to throw around. Being Demo bikes, I was riding it like I stole it.
Next, I rode the new tallboy in a large which fit me perfect. This was my first "real" ride on a modern 29er. It felt like it was carrying speed everywhere. Some of the things I hopped over on the 5010, I just straigtlined over. It felt normal hitting little jumps at full speed as well. The only thing that felt awkward was the initiation of turns. It felt slower on the initial turn in for sure which is something I guess you get used to if you rode it all the time. So, it felt fast but it was not quite as fun as the 5010. I did not think too much about it, until later day I looked at the lap times. I was a FULL 5 minutes faster on the tallboy over the whole loop. Not against the 5010, but against my fastest time ever riding that loop which I ride all the time. F***ing depressing I tell you. So, I have decided to keep my awesome handling switchback as my 27.5 bike, and get a 29er with a 36 to terrorize shit on. Look forward to a future post to see if I hate myself when I look in the mirror now.

 

[kidwoo]

Look forward to a future post to see if I hate myself

FWIW I hate you.

Just getting in on the ground floor here before the hipsters catch on and ruin it.

 

[Jeremy R]

FWIW I hate you.

Just getting in on the ground floor here before the hipsters catch on and ruin it.

I am going to make a blurry GoPro video of me hitting nothing but tight wrongly built switchbacks on my 29er for you to enjoy! Stay tuned!

 

[kidwoo]

I am going to punch myself in the nuts while setting my nipples on fire and jumping into a pack of rabid badgers with steak sauce all over me just to show you!

Hey whatever works man.

 

[Jm_]

Here is my recent depression inducing test ride:
I recently went to a Santa Cruz demo on my local trail. It is a 6 mile loop on big rolling hills. It was a machine built trail, but built by a builder who left as many rocks and roots on the trail as possible. I prefer riding my ti switchback here, and I have set my fastest times there on it as well, so it is not overly rough.
So, first I did a loop on a medium 5010. Wow, Santa Cruz sizing is still weird as this bike felt tiny. That said, this bike was a blast on this loop. It reminded me of a lighter version of my old Transition Scout. It left the ground super easy and was a fun bike to throw around. Being Demo bikes, I was riding it like I stole it.
Next, I rode the new tallboy in a large which fit me perfect. This was my first "real" ride on a modern 29er. It felt like it was carrying speed everywhere. Some of the things I hopped over on the 5010, I just straigtlined over. It felt normal hitting little jumps at full speed as well. The only thing that felt awkward was the initiation of turns. It felt slower on the initial turn in for sure which is something I guess you get used to if you rode it all the time. So, it felt fast but it was not quite as fun as the 5010. I did not think too much about it, until later day I looked at the lap times. I was a FULL 5 minutes faster on the tallboy over the whole loop. Not against the 5010, but against my fastest time ever riding that loop which I ride all the time. F***ing depressing I tell you. So, I have decided to keep my awesome handling switchback as my 27.5 bike, and get a 29er with a 36 to terrorize shit on. Look forward to a future post to see if I hate myself when I look in the mirror now.

Your were faster at XC on an XC bike? No way!

 

[Jeremy R]

Your were faster at XC on an XC bike? No way!

Ha, yes, that would be true if I was riding free ride sleds out there, but the two bikes I have ridden there most was a Transition Scout built light and 24 lb ti hardtail that hauls ass there. The main difference was the wheel size in this situation and it was a damn big difference.
My main concern with a 29er trail bike is if I can make it as fun to ride in the long run. I have zero experience here so I am going in blind. But truthfully, I think my main reason for doing this is just to mix things up by trying some different than what I am used to. Gotta run now so I can work on Kidwoo's video...

 

[atrokz]

29er Scott DH bikes are out in the wild now....

 

[kidwoo]

29er Scott DH bikes are out in the wild now....

Anybody know where @buckoW lives?

Just want to...you know. Chat.

 

[jackalope]

Anybody know where @buckoW lives?

I would assume in a subterranean lair.

 

[Westy]

it felt fast but it was not quite as fun as the 5010. I .

Are you racing or just trying to have fun?

Higher speeds with less fun is just kind of dumb.

 

[Jeremy R]

Are you racing or just trying to have fun?

Higher speeds with less fun is just kind of dumb.

The only reason I throw a leg over a bike is to have fun.
But I find racing fun, and have been known to and been called out for
giggling during my race runs. So, the bike I am building up is one that
I think I can go fast on and have fun. It would suck to be wrong though.
See first sentence.

 

[SylentK]

The only reason I throw a leg over a bike is to have fun.

Speaking of laugh out loud fun. Get a 29er frame that can handle 27.5 2.8" tires/wheels. Like a Hightower, GG Trail Pistol, Niner. Now that is a good time. Honestly. And you still have your bulldozer 29er wheels to blaze fast times. Twice the amount of good times in one bike.

 

[kidwoo]

Speaking of laugh out loud fun. Get a 29er frame that can handle 27.5 2.8" tires/wheels.

Okay grandpa, the bingo hall is that way................-------------------->

 

[SylentK]

haha! That is more applicable than you know...

 

[jonKranked]

Here is my recent depression inducing test ride:
I recently went to a Santa Cruz demo on my local trail. It is a 6 mile loop on big rolling hills. It was a machine built trail, but built by a builder who left as many rocks and roots on the trail as possible. I prefer riding my ti switchback here, and I have set my fastest times there on it as well, so it is not overly rough.
So, first I did a loop on a medium 5010. Wow, Santa Cruz sizing is still weird as this bike felt tiny. That said, this bike was a blast on this loop. It reminded me of a lighter version of my old Transition Scout. It left the ground super easy and was a fun bike to throw around. Being Demo bikes, I was riding it like I stole it.
Next, I rode the new tallboy in a large which fit me perfect. This was my first "real" ride on a modern 29er. It felt like it was carrying speed everywhere. Some of the things I hopped over on the 5010, I just straigtlined over. It felt normal hitting little jumps at full speed as well. The only thing that felt awkward was the initiation of turns. It felt slower on the initial turn in for sure which is something I guess you get used to if you rode it all the time. So, it felt fast but it was not quite as fun as the 5010. I did not think too much about it, until later day I looked at the lap times. I was a FULL 5 minutes faster on the tallboy over the whole loop. Not against the 5010, but against my fastest time ever riding that loop which I ride all the time. F***ing depressing I tell you. So, I have decided to keep my awesome handling switchback as my 27.5 bike, and get a 29er with a 36 to terrorize shit on. Look forward to a future post to see if I hate myself when I look in the mirror now.

Congratulation! You're now one step closer to an e bike

 

[buckoW]

Anybody know where @buckoW lives?

Just want to...you know. Chat.

I'm here.

 

[kidwoo]

I'm here.

It puts the lotion on it's ski or else it gets the hose again.


You think scott will make a non-kids dh in anything but 29" wheels in 5 years?

 

[Electric_City]

I blame strava for this bullshit. We used to ride as a group... 60 riders. We all stuck together.

Now? We ride in comparable groups based on our climbing and/or descending.

My "x" bike is so much faster on "this" trail. Like stated above.

I know that fast is fun. But I also used to have more riding buddies before strava became cool. I also know that rides used to be all day. Now it's "let's get to Kennedy Creek before the climbing cause I wanna set my new record".

Who ever thought that a stupid app would create a separation between you and your riding buddies?

 

[Nick]

I blame strava for this bullshit. We used to ride as a group... 60 riders. We all stuck together.

Now? We ride in comparable groups based on our climbing and/or descending.

My "x" bike is so much faster on "this" trail. Like stated above.

I know that fast is fun. But I also used to have more riding buddies before strava became cool. I also know that rides used to be all day. Now it's "let's get to Kennedy Creek before the climbing cause I wanna set my new record".

Who ever thought that a stupid app would create a separation between you and your riding buddies?

no offense but if that's all true I think the problem is in your riding crew, not teh stravahs.

 

[SkaredShtles]

no offense but if that's all true I think the problem is in your riding crew, not teh stravahs.

This. Sounds like they may have been closet douchebags and now they are out.

NTTAWWT.

 

[slyfink]

no offense but if that's all true I think the problem is in your riding crew, not teh stravahs.

yeah. in reality, Strava just did you a favour.

 

[jstuhlman]

60 riders in a group? dafuq? i get edgy and annoyed with more than 3 or 4 people. we prob have a max group of 12-15 here that's all roughly the same ability/speed/preferred trail style. due to schedules/kids it's rare to get more than a few together at any given time right now.

 

[Jeremy R]

Yeah, I would rather ride naked on a sandpaper saddle than ride with a group of 60 people.

 

[canadmos]

If your group split up based on ability and stuffz, something is definitely wrong there. Our group is sometimes 15-18 large on the weekly ride night and sure, some days it ends up being 2 or 3 distinct groups of speed/ability. But we aren't roadies and dropping people for dead. We'll wait at the next intersection and even hold back and cheer on the slower folk.

Okay, I admit that sometimes people get dropped for dead on the last climb/trail section. But that is because there is cold beer waiting in the parking lot, not Strava.

 

[OGRipper]

Are you racing or just trying to have fun?

Higher speeds with less fun is just kind of dumb.

Totally agree, unless you're racing. But of course to some people, higher speed is fun in and of itself. Never been one of those people personally but there are plenty of them out there.

Not entirely on point but fun story anyway: I met a guy last weekend at the top of a pretty sweet descent. He legit told me he wasn't going to ride down because he wasn't feeling fast and didn't want to mess up his strava times. I suggested he could just turn his phone off and have a fun run. He looked at me like I was the crazy person and said that's not what it's about for him. I just shook my head and kept moving.

I haven't been able to ride in almost 3 months due to broken bones. I am climbing the friggin' walls out of desire to get a little dirt under my tires on any dumb trail. Meanwhile this dude skipped a rad downhill - seriously drove down instead of riding - because to him, there was no point in riding if he couldn't be king of the internet circle jerk.

 

[toodles]

Not entirely on point but fun story anyway: I met a guy last weekend at the top of a pretty sweet descent. He legit told me he wasn't going to ride down because he wasn't feeling fast and didn't want to mess up his strava times. I suggested he could just turn his phone off and have a fun run. He looked at me like I was the crazy person and said that's not what it's about for him. I just shook my head and kept moving.

I haven't been able to ride in almost 3 months due to broken bones. I am climbing the friggin' walls out of desire to get a little dirt under my tires on any dumb trail. Meanwhile this dude skipped a rad downhill - seriously drove down instead of riding - because to him, there was no point in riding if he couldn't be king of the internet circle jerk.

Lulz. I know each to their own and all that, and people get to ride for whatever reason they want, but thats weak sauce.

 

[kidwoo]

Totally agree, unless you're racing. But of course to some people, higher speed is fun in and of itself. Never been one of those people personally but there are plenty of them out there.

Not entirely on point but fun story anyway: I met a guy last weekend at the top of a pretty sweet descent. He legit told me he wasn't going to ride down because he wasn't feeling fast and didn't want to mess up his strava times. I suggested he could just turn his phone off and have a fun run. He looked at me like I was the crazy person and said that's not what it's about for him. I just shook my head and kept moving.

I haven't been able to ride in almost 3 months due to broken bones. I am climbing the friggin' walls out of desire to get a little dirt under my tires on any dumb trail. Meanwhile this dude skipped a rad downhill - seriously drove down instead of riding - because to him, there was no point in riding if he couldn't be king of the internet circle jerk.

That's just......impressive.

 

[HAB]

The only good use of Strava I've ever heard of was when a buddy of mine demoed an ebike from the shop he works at, and used it to set the KOM up a stupid fire road climb just to watch all the dirt roadies get all butthurt.

 

[jstuhlman]

oh...so we're on to good ol starva now?

personally most people i ride with use it for fun so we can give each other shit over beers. came in handy to shut down a recent e-pissing contest with some dude who started bragging on how fast he was, how much his bike cost, and thrn posted podium pics.