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29er HT for a DH guy...

ZHendo

Turbo Monkey
Oct 29, 2006
1,661
147
PNW
Last time I was home in Northern California I rode my dad's Banshee Paradox that I built up for him, and I realized that a good 29er hardtail is probably the most fun trail/all mountain bike I've ridden in a long time. My Nomad C is staying in my stable, no question, but I have slowly been turning it into less of a true all mountain bike and more into a mini DH bike (by the way, I'll be posting a 1 year review about it soon). I want to get a hardtail back into my stable as my winter/mess around bike for when the ultra-high elevation areas are snowed in, and also for those 50-ish mile epics I do once or twice a year.

The reason I'm asking about this here because a lot of you guys look for similar handling traits in a bike as I do. Once you've been on a decent DH bike, cornering prowess and confidence in the gnar become a much bigger deal and a requirement for all of your bikes (at least in my experience). I'm looking at frames like the Chromag Surface/The Roots Down, Canfield Yelli, Banshee Paradox and Transition TransAm 29. Do any of you guys have one of these 29" circus bikes as a compliment to your DH sled? Which ones do you have experience with, and which do you like best?
 

nmpearson

Monkey
Dec 30, 2006
213
8
I've ridden the transam 29er proto...and loved it. This is what i'll be getting, but I'm a transition guy. My buddies all rode the yelli screamy around and really loved it. I rode it for like a min, it felt fine. Haven't ridden the rest. Canfield v. transition, i say go with what company you like more. geo is about the same...weight on the canfield is probably less because of aluminum vs. steel. I'm pretty freakin stoked to have an agressive 29er this summer actually. I love the products that are out on the market
 
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frorider

Monkey
Jul 21, 2004
971
20
cali
i have a yelli screamy -- great bike. 6'3" on a Large. standover height and ST are very low...get a long seatpost for the uphill climbs.

a friend now rides the Kona Honzo. Has even shorter chainstays, thanks to Kona rightly saying 'no front derailleur needed'. the build kit is very very low end, so get the frame only if you go that route (avail Jan/Feb I think). I liked the frame when i rode it.

if you don't mind spending more $$$, the new Chromag 29er frame is probably the nicest quality option. I haven't ridden it but hey, it's a chromag so you know it was ridden hard during the development phase.
 

MmmBones

Monkey
May 8, 2011
272
84
Porkland, OR
I used to ride a Karate monkey and always wanted a Yelli. I can picture its now. fox 34 and hope trials hub with 7 ten speed gears and some of those sweet panaracer CG mud tires. Winter madness has set in.
 

ZHendo

Turbo Monkey
Oct 29, 2006
1,661
147
PNW
The Diamondback looks incredible, jeez. Its also a surprisingly viable option considering I'm going to be studying abroad in Rome until March. The Chromag was my #1, but after seeing the pricetag I'll definitely be waiting for the overseas production version to show up. Almost $1500 for the frame is 2x what I'll be spending on anything else, plus, I'm in college and that's a lot of cases of ****ty beer.
 

ZHendo

Turbo Monkey
Oct 29, 2006
1,661
147
PNW
That tonic looks absolutely incredible...I'm guessing the price is steep, but dear lord do I want it
 

frorider

Monkey
Jul 21, 2004
971
20
cali
I used to ride a Karate monkey and always wanted a Yelli. I can picture its now. fox 34 and hope trials hub with 7 ten speed gears and some of those sweet panaracer CG mud tires. Winter madness has set in.
Yep, I have a hadley single speed wide flange hub w/ 6 cogs on my XC 29er, and that wheel has never needed retruing. Running sun ringle charger pros on the yelli all year...it's basically an eyeletted version of the flow rim, with straight pull spokes. has held up pretty well but did need re-tensioning. nice to have all 10 cogs on there though.
 

demo9pro

Chimp
Oct 21, 2007
78
0
NNJ
I have a Morewood Izimu and a Banshee Paradox, both size large. They feel very similar in terms of fit, but clearly different rides. The Banshee lofts the front wheel very easily and is very "playful" to ride; it rides stiff, but does not transmit the usual aluminum vibration, been loving mine : )
 

ZHendo

Turbo Monkey
Oct 29, 2006
1,661
147
PNW
@demo9pro, have you ridden any other 29ers or did you just spring for the Paradox? I did love how easily the front end of the bike popped up...
 

-BB-

I broke all the rules, but somehow still became mo
Sep 6, 2001
4,254
28
Livin it up in the O.C.
Here is a tip... DON'T DO IT!!
Why would you want a 9r?


Asking a question like "What 9r for a DH guy" is like asking um...
What Thong would you recommend for someone that wears Boxers?
;)
 

Smelly

Turbo Monkey
Jun 17, 2004
1,254
1
out yonder, round bout a hootinany
Add the Kona Honzo to your list. Has a sh*t build, but it's available as frame only, and has a super short rear end, slack front end, slider dropouts, and is only 1x compatible. Looks like a ripper. If I needed a new bike, that'd be it.

I love my Paradox, but someone coming from a DH background might want something slacker. I've used my mine for all day XC rides, riding the chairlift, and everything in between.
 

marshalolson

Turbo Monkey
May 25, 2006
1,770
519
i have a canfield nimble 9. rad bike. great geo, super smooth. very impressive bike.

i have a medium and looking to switch to a large, if anyone is interested. its mint condition :D
 

ZHendo

Turbo Monkey
Oct 29, 2006
1,661
147
PNW
Here is a tip... DON'T DO IT!!
Why would you want a 9r?


Asking a question like "What 9r for a DH guy" is like asking um...
What Thong would you recommend for someone that wears Boxers?
;)
I'm still considering a regular 26er, namely the Chromag Aperture, but I'm still struggling with the decision. The Paradox I rode seemed freaking awesome, but that was in California where trails tend to be much more wide open than here in the Seattle area.
 

chromagnus

Chimp
Apr 21, 2009
17
0
That tonic looks absolutely incredible...I'm guessing the price is steep, but dear lord do I want it
I just had Tony make me one. I love it. short stay, fits me like a glove. I have some pictures for him to put on his blog. I think he is going to have them up shortly. Tony is great to work with and it was worth the 1200$ for the frame. I ride it SS with a 120mm fork etc. I will try to post up some pictures soon.
 

manhattanprjkt83

Rusty Trombone
Jul 10, 2003
9,644
1,214
Nilbog
So chromagnus is a good bud of mine...I have been his shoulder to cry on throughout the build of that bike (see pic)...Without a doubt it is my favorite hardtail of all time...It's incredible, the angles are perfect, it's clean, and utilitarian.

I have owned an evil sovereign and a transition trans am at different points, yes both were 26's I wouldn't buy another 26 HT. If i were on a budget I would go with the trans am 29 its just a fantastic bike and transition is a great company (not like you would need help down the line on a steel hardtail). regardless...

If I had the cash to blow it would be a hard choice between chromag and tonic, both are hard to come by and basically 1 off bikes, but I own a tonic dj bike and have to give them props for making something special...Here is chromagnus's bike over the weekend.

huge pic from our good friend jonpratt.com here:

http://www.jonpratt.com/2011/2011-PTAG-Annual-Party-1210/i-r5HNR6X/0/X3/JP-20111210-ptagparty-8850-X3.jpg

JP-20111210-ptagparty-8850-L.jpg
 
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ZHendo

Turbo Monkey
Oct 29, 2006
1,661
147
PNW
I am a big fan of Transition as a company and I know its between the TransAm29 and Paradox for being the most economical frame to buy. The only real turnoff for me on the Transition is the marginally longer stays and the 6.4lb frame weight.

After looking over what I could find in the Tonic blog, it looks like the most well thought out and frankly the most attractive 29er frame I've seen. The Chromag is gorgeous too, but at nearly $300 more than the Tonic I just can't justify it.
 

manhattanprjkt83

Rusty Trombone
Jul 10, 2003
9,644
1,214
Nilbog
I am a big fan of Transition as a company and I know its between the TransAm29 and Paradox for being the most economical frame to buy. The only real turnoff for me on the Transition is the marginally longer stays and the 6.4lb frame weight.

After looking over what I could find in the Tonic blog, it looks like the most well thought out and frankly the most attractive 29er frame I've seen. The Chromag is gorgeous too, but at nearly $300 more than the Tonic I just can't justify it.
You could have worse problems with zero choices, the chromag guys are fantastic and put tons of soul into their bikes. Lots of us around here have bikes and components from both, you can't go wrong with either...The tonic is very clean, its like the landrover defender 90 of the 29'er world, functional with style.

I have owned 6 or something Transitions, if I was in college I would get that bike, i was there and get the gig...Trust me the trans am is a 'forget about it' bike, just ride the damn thing. Good luck with your search...nothing but good options out there.
 

MDJ

Monkey
Dec 15, 2005
669
0
San Jose, CA
I think there is a new trend erupting, and its a great one...These things are what long boards in the surf world are to mountain biking. awesome.
Yes, and the new trail full suspension 29ers coming out are what modern fish in the surf world are to mountain biking - what most people should be riding most of the time.

Of course, egos always get in the way of having fun.
 
Sep 13, 2011
4
0
I am in San Diego and ride my Yelli Screamy 75% of the time and a year or so ago when i got it i had 4 other bikes in my stable and found none of them were getting ridden so sold them all except for my Nomad but even with that it only seen action once a month maybe as my Yelli Screamy was very comfortable doing light DH to XC.

Now to me although i feel my Yelli Screamy is very capable of most riding here in SoCal i can feel the difference on the tighter more techy stuff and a 26" to me at least seem to handle better in that situation and seeing how i was eyeballing the 2011 "THE ONE" for a while and decided to sell my Nomad and buy it and have never looked back and honestly feel for the first time i am comfortable with my stable that will cover any riding i will be doing. So good luck with whatever you chose
 

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ZHendo

Turbo Monkey
Oct 29, 2006
1,661
147
PNW
I like the Yelli but I think that steel is probably the way to go on a hardtail. I like the lateral stiffness of the aluminum, but a long day in the saddle on the Banshee Paradox had me feeling pretty rattled around.
 

frorider

Monkey
Jul 21, 2004
971
20
cali
FWIW the Yelli is a bit flexy, at least under my 195 lbs. time will tell if that translates into fatigue cracks. at any rate, i've banged out 6 hour trail rides on it with no comfort issues. the 2.4 Ardent on the rear has lots of volume and i run it around 30 psi for teh cushnezz.
 

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
85,573
24,190
media blackout
If only they knew what was good for them. Stupid people...
:D

i've ridden plenty of 29'ers, both hardtail and fs. really and honestly not my thing. i can see how some people would enjoy riding them, but it's just not my thing. i hate the way they turn, and how overall big they are.
 

alpine slug

Monkey
Jun 10, 2011
190
0
sometimes you make good points. this is one of them.
Don't worry the trend can't last long.

doh!

The sarcastic me wants to say this:

I always make good points, though not everyone will agree with them, and those who disagree will say they're "bad" points, but what is true or honest has nothing to do with agreement and everything to do with what IS.
 

marshalolson

Turbo Monkey
May 25, 2006
1,770
519
FWIW the Yelli is a bit flexy, at least under my 195 lbs. time will tell if that translates into fatigue cracks. at any rate, i've banged out 6 hour trail rides on it with no comfort issues. the 2.4 Ardent on the rear has lots of volume and i run it around 30 psi for teh cushnezz.
nimble 9 yo.
 

-BB-

I broke all the rules, but somehow still became mo
Sep 6, 2001
4,254
28
Livin it up in the O.C.
I'm still considering a regular 26er, namely the Chromag Aperture, but I'm still struggling with the decision. The Paradox I rode seemed freaking awesome, but that was in California where trails tend to be much more wide open than here in the Seattle area.

My buddy just built up a Cove Stiffe HT and he loves it.
 

xy9ine

Turbo Monkey
Mar 22, 2004
2,940
353
vancouver eastside
chromag 29'er looks spot on: P10100046-580x435.jpg

that said, i'm having a great time on my ragley bagger. slack (~65* w/ 160mm fork) + the compliance of small diameter steel stays = good times. i've not ridden a ht for years, but this has been a surprisingly versatile & fun ride.
 

MDJ

Monkey
Dec 15, 2005
669
0
San Jose, CA
How'd you determine this "should"?
Easy, I rode one.

I was completely anti-29er until this new breed hit the market. By the second day on a 29 trail bike I couldn't wipe the smile off my face. It's as fast or faster than my 26 and has no real disadvantages. Now, if you get to ride your DH bike ever day then nevermind. If you ride trail/am most of the time then you owe it to yourself to try one. And I don't mean one of the old school (basically last year) XC bikes. Those are totally different. Go check out Dirt's website and see what Steve Jones had to say. He had the same revelation as me at around the same time. My 29er is on order.

But hey, i could care less who agrees or not. I'm no evangelist. Eventually you'll start to see more and more of these ripping it up on your local trails. They are fun and fast - and isn't that what it's all about?
 

alpine slug

Monkey
Jun 10, 2011
190
0
I think I understood that you liked it.

I'm asking about the should where everyone else is concerned.

Don't mind me -- I started riding 29ers in 2007 and have owned a few different ones, but gave up on them this past season in favor of 26" wheels again.

I still don't get the should part. It's like saying everyone should drive an SUV even if they stay on pavement all the time.

That word "should" suggests evangelism and salesmanship/hucksterism, rather than "meh... I don't care what you ride."

I read Jones's idea too. Poor Jonesy. Hear he's a good rider, too bad he's not a good writer.

(that's sarcasm -- he's a decent writer but lacks substance and writes mostly style-oriented stuff, gushing and glowing to sell a bike or part)

Jones's idea reads like someone in the comments said -- sounds like he's got a new lady friend and is all excited about how she rides but in 3 months will be wondering what he saw in her.
 
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alpine slug

Monkey
Jun 10, 2011
190
0
Prefer the ride of 26" wheels, even with all their supposed "faults" in the eyes of Niner Zealots.

However, I don't ride eedjit-made dirt-sidewalk "flow" nonsense where apparently Niners Literally Kill It.

There's one area where I think the 29" wheel makes a bit of sense, that's for hardtail singlespeeds ridden by broken old dudes. The ride of a 29" wheeled HT is a bit smoother than that of a 26" HT, and the slower acceleration of the bigger wheels is less a factor when singlespeeding because you're always trying to stay on top of the gear when climbing.

Honestly I found the ride boring because it allowed me to be lazy with line selection. Compared to 26" wheels they allow a lot more Monster Truck Sloppiness, behave more like Plow Bikes.

A friend got a Canfield Nimble 9 this season and says it's a bit different than other 29" frames he's ridden, but he's been on a custom 29" frames for 5 years, short CS frame much shorter CS than anyone else was running before Banshee's Paradox, Kona's Honzo, or Canfield's YS or N9.
 
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