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29er Trail bike for a DH’er

manhattanprjkt83

Rusty Trombone
Jul 10, 2003
9,644
1,214
Nilbog
We have had plenty of threads about the ‘dh’ers’ trail bike in the DH forum but I wanted to start one about 29” bikes. This years interbike showed that the industry is pretty serious about making aggressive style 29’ers for trail riding with new frame and tire options that look great…

I am a DH’er that rides quite a bit of xc/am/trail whatever you want to call it. Currently I’m riding a very light Transition Covert which is a bit much for the local terrain I ride regularly. I am pretty sure I am going to be moving to something like a Transition Bandit, Specialized Evo Carbon, or Santa Cruz blur LTC but the 29’er thing has caught my eye a bit.

Would you ride a 29’er if your style of riding is technical with a jumpy playful edge? Do you think it would decrease the fun factor? I am 5’10 so I’m not a giant and a bit worried about the bike handling like a tank on some of our tight singletrack but a 140mm bike with a fox 34 sounds pretty nice right now, what does rm think?

Current Rig but with a RS Revelation now.
 

Konabumm

Konaboner
Jun 13, 2003
4,383
87
Hollywood, Maryland, United States
NO! Where I live almost everyone rides a 29er now and I refuse to make the move. I've taken a few different 29ers out for test rides and I'm sure there are people that would really love riding them. However I'm not one of them. I just don't like how they feel, I can't stand how slow they are to respond. I'm going to stick with my 26er DH/XC/SS/DJ bike for as long as I can.
 

Routier07

Monkey
Mar 14, 2009
259
0
I had the chance to test ride a couple longer travel full suspension 29r's. I had the chance to take out a Norco Shinobi and Specialized Stumpjumper 29r Comp. Both we're set up just right for me, I came back from the rides liking the Norco ALOT more. The Stumpjumper has some toe overlap issue IMO, and just feels awkward at times. While the Norco took everything I threw at it and didn't really find any big issues with the bike, overall the Norco rode almost like a DH bike on the downs and still climbed like a lightweight racer. Plus you cant tell me that the Shinobi 1 for 2012 isn't a looker... Looks even better in person too.
 

Pslide

Turbo Monkey
I'll be getting a Prime proto in a few months, so will let you know after I get some seat time. I've been a 26er all my life, but a quick spin on a Tracer 29 makes me think I'm going to really like the Prime. I am 6'3" though...

My main fear is not that it won't be fun to ride. If you can throw around a DH bike than certainly you can throw around a 29er trail bike. My main fear is that it's going to make the trails I ride too easy...
 

manhattanprjkt83

Rusty Trombone
Jul 10, 2003
9,644
1,214
Nilbog
this is the exact discussion i have in my head

it's awesome - it sucks - it's awesome...I am really 100% 50/50 on this and its driving me a bit nuts.
 

manhattanprjkt83

Rusty Trombone
Jul 10, 2003
9,644
1,214
Nilbog
I just don't like how they feel, I can't stand how slow they are to respond. I'm going to stick with my 26er DH/XC/SS/DJ bike for as long as I can.
So you are saying this because you really notice a slower handling bike? Or are you saying it because you hate the fact that everyone has them and just don’t like the persona?

I have to admit i have never been for 29'ers for my type of riding but the new equipment available to us is starting to change that, I am keeping an open mind I guess.
 

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,346
1,587
Warsaw :/
I'll be getting a Prime proto in a few months, so will let you know after I get some seat time. I've been a 26er all my life, but a quick spin on a Tracer 29 makes me think I'm going to really like the Prime. I am 6'3" though...

My main fear is not that it won't be fun to ride. If you can throw around a DH bike than certainly you can throw around a 29er trail bike. My main fear is that it's going to make the trails I ride too easy...
I still want my trailbike to be much much more throwable around than my dh bike. When it will have the agility of my dh bike with better rolling over obstacles it will be a loose loose situation for me. I like riding like a madman on my trailbike, not like the duchess of no fun.
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
21,031
5,921
borcester rhymes
100% 50/50
LOL :D

I just switched to a 29er, from a Trek Fuel EX to a Voodoo Canzo. Those are both more "XC" than most "What downhill bike can I slowly grind to the top of a hill" bikes that most people here look for, but the voodoo is not noticeably slower nor worse handling. The wheel size benefits are kind of iffy...the voodoo rolls incredibly well on grass, you get more traction in the climbs, and even in tight switchbacks I had no trouble maintaining traction...but the suspension on my voodoo is noticeably worse than my trek, so I need more time to dial it in, but you do get some improvement over 26ers on really rooty sections. I also rode the bike all day on Jester @ the kingdom trails, and had no problems and plenty of fun. It's an XC bike, so it wasn't exactly at home on the jumps, but it seemed to rail berms OK and felt comfortable at speed.

It seems to me that most people with a bias either have bad reasons based on old data, or fear of social stigma attached to 29ers. I don't think 29ers are for everybody nor do they hold an advantage big enough to switch over your uber-blinged out 26er just to get on board, but they are something different and there are some advantages. At least for my case, the handling of the voodoo seems like it was ironed out enough to keep the liveliness that I look for in an XC bike. Manufacturers are finally starting to build aggressive trail bikes, like the Transition 29er and the Tracer29, that may satisfy the needs of a more all mountain style rider. I don't think that just because you go 29, you suddenly don't need suspension...I can feel the difference in my Voodoo vs. my trek, and that's only .7"/1" of travel.

tl;dr get one if you have the cash to try it out, keep your 26er if you're satisfied with it.
 

w00dy

In heaven there is no beer
Jun 18, 2004
3,417
51
that's why we drink it here
2 questions:
How steep are your trails?
How often do you bend wheels?

The biggest problems I forsee are taco'd wheels and scrubbing your ass on the rear wheel. The traction benefits are there, but if you can't clear the wheel on a steep decent or you have regular wheel problems I'd stick to smaller wheels at least in the rear. You could always try a 69er if you don't have toeverlap issues.
 

alpine slug

Monkey
Jun 10, 2011
190
0
I had a 1st-gen Turner Sultan that I felt made things too easy and boring. I've been riding a 29er SS as one of my 2 trail bikes since the same year - 2007. This year I went back to 26" exclusively.

If you over-bike your local trails with a big honkin' 6+6 26 FS, try getting a 26" bike that doesn't have so much travel and beef.

Or try the newer 29er FS bikes. Doesn't matter to me!
 

Konabumm

Konaboner
Jun 13, 2003
4,383
87
Hollywood, Maryland, United States
So you are saying this because you really notice a slower handling bike? Or are you saying it because you hate the fact that everyone has them and just don’t like the persona?

I have to admit i have never been for 29'ers for my type of riding but the new equipment available to us is starting to change that, I am keeping an open mind I guess.
I'm saying that for my style of riding a 29er just isn't for me. I don't find a 29er nearly as fun as my 26er. But I'm sure that other people may love the way a 29er handles.... and that's all that matters, if the bike under you makes you smile then you're doing it right !
 

dbozman

Monkey
May 11, 2008
118
0
Scottsdale, AZ
I'm 6'2" and I've tried a bunch of 29ers over the years. Never really liked any of them, except the GF Rig single speed (for SS, 29er are a no-brainer). I do live in AZ and even our "XC" trails are pretty gnar relative to other parts of the country.

However, the newer breed of "all mountain" 29ers is a totally different ballgame. I picked up an '11 Stumpy Comp FSR 29er a couple months back and it's fantastic. Far and away the best 29er I've owned and realistically (once I replaced the stock wheelset), the best trailbike I've owned (and I've owned a 575, Enduro, Shova, El Guapo, and two Turners, an RFX and 5 Spot).

I can't say enough good things about this bike. It's incredibly fun to ride and carries none of the 29er baggage that folks most often comment on.

FWIW, I really, really wanted a Shinobi before I bought the Stumpy. In fact, I was ready to buy sight unseen. There's only one dealer in my state (two hours away) and he had no stock. So, I contacted Norco directly. The person I communicated with was an enormous jerk and completely unhelpful in assisting me in paying full retail for one of their bikes. So I went with the Specialized.
 

frorider

Monkey
Jul 21, 2004
971
20
cali
Anyone reading the posts above generically stating 'XXX' about '29ers' should mentally translate as 'for the specific 29ers I rode, at least'. for example, 29er HA's vary from 67 degrees to 72 degrees. Guess what: that affects handling, amazingly enough. Chainstays on suspension 29ers vary from around 17 inches to 18 or more. also affects handling, amazingly enough.

A few riders I know who were die-hard 6 and 8 inch FS riders were surprised at what a 29er hardtail can do, if it's the right hardtail on the right trails (i don't mean smooth trails).

I have ridden a Lenz FS 29er with 120 mm travel that had a legit AM/XC geo....had essentially none of the bad handling issues people assume 29ers have, but also had a primitive suspension design that was pretty meh.

Overall I haven't been impressed with the FS 29ers out there. The Banshee Prime looks promising. I hear good things about the Shinobi but haven't ridden one.

A hope Single Speed hub and a 7-cog cluster (8 is possible if running 10 speed) builds a strong rear wheel. The Havens are also strong enough for this kind of riding. The new 140 mm fox is legit. Wheels, tires, forks, AM geo frames...29ers are evolving fast, and it's possible that in the next 2 years my Nomad will get replaced by a 130 or 140 mm travel 29er. I'm in no rush.
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
21,031
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That's pretty slick. I'd have concerns running a tracer, with 5.5" of travel and it's reportedly flexy back end, as a full on DH rig, I think you could build one as a very effective "do everything" bike aka AM aka enduro AKA whatever. Plus, now that transcend et al have convinced everybody that 480g rims and single ply tires are a good idea for DH, nobody has the right to complain about wheels not strong enough. In fact, Stans makes 29er Flow rims, which are way too heavy for DH @ 525g. I have toyed with the idea of building a one bike quiver out of a T29...but I like having a dedicated XC rig and a burlier DH rig, one where I don't have to worry about replacing parts daily.

To frorider's point...tis true, my experience is based off of only two 29ers, the one I own and a hardtail I rode, but the idea is simple...people have figured it out. Maybe not all of them, but you can get a good handling 29er frame that's not exclusively XC and doesn't handle like a tank, but it's up to the rider whether it's worth making the change or not.
 

MDJ

Monkey
Dec 15, 2005
669
0
San Jose, CA
I had no interest in the older 29ers, but the new ones have peaked my interest too. I'll be buying a new trail bike in the next 6 months but first want to get some time on some of these new bikes to see if I can make the leap. THe Transition Covert29 really appeals to me, but there is also the Stumpjumper EVO29, Norco, Kona, Intense, Commencal (eventually), and others I'm sure.
 

manhattanprjkt83

Rusty Trombone
Jul 10, 2003
9,644
1,214
Nilbog
Transition is not making a covert 29 it is the bandit and it looks incredible. If i go 29 that will be the bike.

There is a ton of great feedback in this thread, thanks. As for riding the 6/6 bike I have it built with an extremely light parts build and need something with some beef to it because i throw it in a duffle bag and travel with it multiple times a year where i need the larger bike.
 

nyhc00

Monkey
Jul 19, 2010
496
0
CT
I've been riding a 2012 Epic lately, and really like it. Especially compared to the Stump. It took me a few rides to feel comfortable on a 29, but now I throw it around pretty naturally.
 

iRider

Turbo Monkey
Apr 5, 2008
5,648
3,089
29ers are for kids. Real man ride 36ers. :D

[video]http://www.youtube.com/user/milltowncycles1#p/a/u/0/fYt6IqaHk_Q[/video]
 

Dogboy

Turbo Monkey
Apr 12, 2004
3,208
581
Durham, NC
I've owned a SC Tallboy for the last year and a half. My other bikes are a 6" travel, 26" wheeled bike and my DH bike. I like to push the bike pretty hard and the Tallboy has been amazing as a trail bike. It's super capable for a bike with 4" of rear travel (120mm fork) and feels very composed in rough stuff up to a certain point - below where my 6" bike is still in its comfort zone, but that is to be expected. I imagine a 120/130mm 29" bike would be a blast if it is based on sound geometry and suspension principles.
 

Vrock

Linkage Design Blog
Aug 13, 2005
276
59
Spain
29'' trailbikes are still trailbikes, or All mountain, but they are not going to replace real DH bikes... Yet.
 

Delimeat

Monkey
Feb 3, 2009
195
0
Canada
I loved the Shinobi. It is unbelievably solid feeling. I'll go on record saying that I don't feel that having a massively stiff rear end is all that important (but that's another argument altogether...), but the Shinobi is about as solid feeling as they come. Like most 29'ers, it rides like more bike than its numbers would have you believe.

When shopping for a big wheeler I think that it is important to not get caught up in the numbers, something that we're prone to do as downhiller types. These bikes ride so differently that it is hard to compare head angles and BB heights with what you're familiar with from your 26" wheeled bike. My advice: they ride like they have an extra inch of travel and are a degree slacker than what the catalog says. I'm on a 100mm travel 29'er right now and going as fast (I've timed it) as on my 150mm bike on most trails, and it's nearly 2 degrees steeper. No, my trails aren't super gnarly, but they are not exactly super tame either.
 

descente

Monkey
Jul 30, 2010
430
0
Sandy Eggo
i rode a carbonium blur xc and an s-works 29er epic blah blah blah at interbike back to back. i liked the blur a lot better and had a way easier time on the quick rocky climbs, even tho when i rode the 29er i knew what was coming because i rode the blur first. i was surprised how easily the 29er could table top and whip, but on the ground it just felt like a barge. and even tho it had the typical "too low" specialized bottom bracket the bike felt a little tall and tippy. i suppose a truly fair comparison would have been a tallboy and a blur back to back, and i do really like the feel of the carbon tall boys i have put together and ridden around. we did an XXL for a customer that made my dh bike feel like a dj bike.

i don't get the "revolution" or whatever it is and i like that i can still take my 26" "xc" bike to dirt jumps and pump tracks and throw some flair in on my pedal rides. niners seem to be great for people who ride to be "fit" or "punish" themselves, and sixers seem to be for people who like to also have fun while doing the aforementioned.
 

manhattanprjkt83

Rusty Trombone
Jul 10, 2003
9,644
1,214
Nilbog
let me be clear im not trying to replace my dh bike with a 29'er just re-read the title and it does sound that way.

i am just in search of a new trail bike
 

manhattanprjkt83

Rusty Trombone
Jul 10, 2003
9,644
1,214
Nilbog
i don't get the "revolution" or whatever it is and i like that i can still take my 26" "xc" bike to dirt jumps and pump tracks and throw some flair in on my pedal rides. niners seem to be great for people who ride to be "fit" or "punish" themselves, and sixers seem to be for people who like to also have fun while doing the aforementioned.
this is exactly where my head is at, i am absolutely a 'fun' type of rider
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
21,031
5,921
borcester rhymes
Same here and as mentioned earlier, I love my Tallboy.
not me, I like fun AND suffering. S+M anyone?

But seriously...people keep telling me 29ers are no fun...and yet, I keep having it on my 29er, whether it's up OR down. Come to think of it, I also had fun on my 26er. What the hell?
 

frorider

Monkey
Jul 21, 2004
971
20
cali
Yeah I saw that vid a while back. Here's the thing (for me anyway) -- I get that a 140 mm travel 29er has similar feel as a 160 mm travel 26er on rough terrain, having experienced that comparison myself -- but if someone asks me 'what does that 140 mm travel 29er do BETTER than a dialled-in AM 26er bike?', really the only answer I have is that the AM 29er climbs UP technical, chunky trails somewhat better than the AM 26er.

Which is why I'm not sure when or if I'd replace my AM 26er (Nomad) with an AM'ish 29er. Similar performance on the descent -- somewhat better performance going up -- is that enough reason to replace an existing bike?
 

manhattanprjkt83

Rusty Trombone
Jul 10, 2003
9,644
1,214
Nilbog
Which is why I'm not sure when or if I'd replace my AM 26er (Nomad) with an AM'ish 29er. Similar performance on the descent -- somewhat better performance going up -- is that enough reason to replace an existing bike?
I think i am with you on this, pretty sure I am going to stick with the 26...Its familiar to me and makes swapping between the dh bike and the dj very easy...I do think i am going to size down a bit to most likely a santa cruz blur LTC, bit lighter and can still handle some gnarly AM trips when needed...
 

manhattanprjkt83

Rusty Trombone
Jul 10, 2003
9,644
1,214
Nilbog
Video - Pinkbike.com

The Video is Called Destroying a Bandit9. Found it on pinkbike. The 29er Transition Bandit looks like it can andle anything from, steep climbs-steep descends, rocks, rocks, water, and huge jumps. looks pretty awesome. I am currently awaiting 2 transition products and possibly a bandit9.
I saw this as well, doesnt it look like he is really trying hard to get that thing to do what he wants it to? The guy's a great rider but it just seems forced...just to me looks like the bike doesnt like to be ridden on jumpy stuff like a 26
 
Aug 25, 2011
526
0
West Milford, NJ, 'MERICA
Not a lot, it just looks weird to me. Big tall bike being launch. I wouldnt doubt it feels different around cornering, jumping and what not. But isn't that just natural when adjusting to a new bike. you dont feel in control at first and its a completely new feel to warm up to which is what this guy is expierencing.imo
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
21,031
5,921
borcester rhymes
Yeah I saw that vid a while back. Here's the thing (for me anyway) -- I get that a 140 mm travel 29er has similar feel as a 160 mm travel 26er on rough terrain, having experienced that comparison myself -- but if someone asks me 'what does that 140 mm travel 29er do BETTER than a dialled-in AM 26er bike?', really the only answer I have is that the AM 29er climbs UP technical, chunky trails somewhat better than the AM 26er.

Which is why I'm not sure when or if I'd replace my AM 26er (Nomad) with an AM'ish 29er. Similar performance on the descent -- somewhat better performance going up -- is that enough reason to replace an existing bike?
Part of the idea is that it's not that different...so you can get away with a little less travel. Less travel means more efficiency, better pedaling, more trail feel. I honestly don't feel that the difference is that significant, in fact there are really only certain circumstances where I think 29ers hold a "shock absorbing" advantage, and that's mostly limited to on trail bumps like baby heads or roots. I do think you gain some impressive traction and that you really don't give up much in aggressiveness or playfulness...but I also don't think anybody should ditch their well sorted 26" trail bike for a 29er just for that. I think if you ride everything, up and down, and want to ride for the longest amount of time possible, I think a 29er gives you an advantage over 26ers...
 

frorider

Monkey
Jul 21, 2004
971
20
cali
I agree on the straightline traction, but in my experience this is a (moderate) plus on the uphills but isn't noticeable on the downhills (other than in loose sand. a fat 29er tire feels directionally more stable...not a traction difference actually, but an angle-of-attack-in-loose-sand difference).

and years ago being able to get away with 120 or 140 mm travel would save you weight and gain pedalling efficiency. But a Mojo HD 26er is insanely light and pedals very efficiently -- compared to the heavier Bandit29 frame, with a simple single pivot + swing link faux bar, i'd much rather have the Mojo HD or NomadC from a pedalling efficiency perspective.

I agree that FS XC 29ers are well suited for 10 hour epic trail rides...even when you're totally bonked and can barely pedal, the 29er rolls along up chunky / rooty trails with less mental focus needed. it's almost like cheating. Guess I'm still just not sure about where the AM FS 29er fits in.

It's too bad the Ibis Ripley has a steep HA (by modern 29er standards), but an angleset could fix that.