Quantcast

29er Trail bike for a DH’er

Discussion in 'Downhill & Freeride' started by manhattanprjkt83, Oct 20, 2011.

  1. Sandwich

    Sandwich Pig my fish!
    Staff Member

    Rep/Likes:
    69 / 863
    Joined:
    May 23, 2002
    Messages:
    15,754
    Location:
    01776
    I can see that...I would think you'd also gain traction in turns and in braking, simply by e nature of having a larger contact patch. I personally didn't lose traction in turns that I thought I would have with my skinny xc tires.

    Anyways, comparing the transo bandit9 with a mojo is apples and oranges...a better comparo might be a sultan/5 spot or tallboy/nomad...anyways, the idea is there, though it may not be for everybody, I think there are some advantages....if the minion comes out in 29er they might actually be useful for DH in the future.
     

    Please register to disable this ad.

  2. Mr Lahey

    Mr Lahey Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    1 / 28
    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2009
    Messages:
    182
    Edge Outdoors in Medina Ohio has a nasty Tracer 29 demo available (I picked up their 26 inch I liked it so much). About a 3 hour drive for you.

    330.952.1989
     
  3. Leethal

    Leethal Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    0 / 0
    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2001
    Messages:
    1,244
    Location:
    Avondale (Phoenix)
    WK,

    I love my Niner RIP 9 with a Reba 140... so much I never ride my 6.5" bike and there is nothing but rocks and ledges here..

    Lee
     
  4. Sandwich

    Sandwich Pig my fish!
    Staff Member

    Rep/Likes:
    69 / 863
    Joined:
    May 23, 2002
    Messages:
    15,754
    Location:
    01776
    Hey genuine question, why did you pick the tracer2 over the t29? Just curious if you liked it so much.
     
  5. Mr Lahey

    Mr Lahey Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    1 / 28
    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2009
    Messages:
    182
    Only the 26 was available at the time. That being said after riding both of them I found the 26 to fit me better and offer a snappier more lively ride. Granted a lot of this comes down to suspension tuning and build. I would note the 29 rode almost a size larger in my opinion. Another interesting observation was that everyone from myself to well placing pro riders shared the exact opinions on the bikes- they are fast, the 26 is "sportier", and the 29 is far from a geriatric bike.

    They are both killer bikes for everything from xc to mini dh. Hope that helps.
     
  6. sikocycles

    sikocycles Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    5 / 14
    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2002
    Messages:
    1,104
    Location:
    CT
    Look at Lenz.
    I have a PBJ that I run DH and had a Lunchbox. Sold the lunchbox and purchase a custom Nicolai.
    Akso have a SJ FSR Comp which is a great bike for the price
     
  7. epic

    epic Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    0 / 21
    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2008
    Messages:
    1,052
    I'm not really one for 29ers, but I did get to ride a Tracer29 for the day this summer, and it was by far the most natural feeling 29er I've been on. That said, I didn't think the 29er wheels brought anything special to the table relative to the regular Tracer2.
     
  8. MDJ

    MDJ Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    0 / 0
    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2005
    Messages:
    673
    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    I'm in the same boat. AM29 curious but will most likely stick with 26 for the same reasons. Probably a Stumpy EVO for me since I can get a good deal. Blur LTC would probably be my next choice
     
  9. -BB-

    -BB- I broke all the rules, but somehow still became mo

    Rep/Likes:
    5 / 28
    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2001
    Messages:
    4,281
    Location:
    Livin it up in the O.C.
    Haven't they been saying that for months? ;)
     
  10. bdamschen

    bdamschen Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    7 / 36
    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2005
    Messages:
    3,319
    Location:
    Spreckels, CA
    I was faced with the same decision. My reasoning at the time was that there were no good fork or tire/wheel combos for what I wanted to do (ride it like my DH bike). Deep down however, I always felt like I would have less fun ripping berms on a 29er. My T2 kicks butt for that.

    Some of the builds I've seen with newer parts that are less XC-ish for 29ers make me want to try one and maybe buy one, but I don't think I'd buy one INSTEAD of a 26.
     
  11. bdamschen

    bdamschen Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    7 / 36
    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2005
    Messages:
    3,319
    Location:
    Spreckels, CA
    PS- for a trail bike, this looks hawt.

     
  12. Sandwich

    Sandwich Pig my fish!
    Staff Member

    Rep/Likes:
    69 / 863
    Joined:
    May 23, 2002
    Messages:
    15,754
    Location:
    01776
    I agree...as does this:


    Interesting to note on the tracer 2/29. I've considered getting a t29 at some point but just don't have the motivation.
     
  13. Pslide

    Pslide Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    5 / 0
    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2002
    Messages:
    1,381
    Location:
    Feet on the ground, head in the clouds.
    One should expect delays in the prototyping stage.
     
  14. sikocycles

    sikocycles Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    5 / 14
    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2002
    Messages:
    1,104
    Location:
    CT
    My 29er DH rig
     

    Attached Files:

  15. Sam B

    Sam B Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    8 / 0
    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2001
    Messages:
    280
    Location:
    Cascadia
    So I took apart my Covert for parts when I built up my first proto Bandit 29. I have not missed it at all. Tire selection is till a bit of a bummer, but it really is getting better... new Maxxis stuff coming, Schwalbe Nobby Nics are good, and I am anxious to try the Hans Dampf with the softer trailstar compound.

    So... my head angle is 1.5 degrees steeper than before but with the bigger wheel I feel every bit as stable, both at speed and on steep stuff. Rollover... yeah, it's "better" but whatever... you are losing some travel at the same time. The really sweet thing is when it starts to drift. With the bigger contact patch and weight lower relative to axles the drift is REALLY predictable. I am way more comfortable letting the back wheel swing around and keeping me feet on the pedals. I also think a part of that comes from the steeper HA, when your back wheel does break free the bike dosen't "dip" as much as it would with a slacker head angle, making it feel more controlled. At the same time that touch steeper head angle does help on the tight stuff compared to the 26. It's a nice tradeoff getting some stabilty from the wheels.

    Anyway... in summary, yes. My 140mm 29 bike feels way more "downhiller" than my 160mm 26 did. But keep in mind, I am 6'4" so my opinion might be a bit different. On the other hand, I know Scuch here is about 5'8" and he has been loving the Bandit 29 as well and hasn't touched his Bandit 26 in ages.
     
  16. frorider

    frorider Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    1 / 5
    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2004
    Messages:
    960
    Location:
    cali
    Thx Sam, useful info. I have an extra 29er hardtail I might cannibalize for parts to throw on a bandit or satori frame next year as a cheap experiment.

    What fork are you running?
     
  17. sikocycles

    sikocycles Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    5 / 14
    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2002
    Messages:
    1,104
    Location:
    CT
    Custom 150mm Nicolai. Pretty perfect bike


    Lenz DH 29er 7x7" off pipeline drop at Diablo.

     
  18. Sam B

    Sam B Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    8 / 0
    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2001
    Messages:
    280
    Location:
    Cascadia
    Fox Float 34 140mm, tapered with 15mm.

    EDIT: Here is a picture.

    2011-10-26 11.08.16.jpg
     
    #58 -   Oct 24, 2011
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2011
  19. Sugar_brad

    Sugar_brad Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    0 / 6
    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2009
    Messages:
    328
    Been a 26 inch wheel guy forever but I am making the switch to big wheels for trail riding(still keeping a 26inch enduro or sx in the fleet). It is actually not that different than a dh bike in some respects, the bigger wheels make up for the steeper head angles and you can plow through stuff like on a dh bike. The longer wheelbase is something we are familiar with as well. I have been riding a 2012 demo rumblefish that we got in a couple of weeks ago and enjoy it. One of the guys I work with got a stumpjumper 29er(non evo) and I am getting one soon as well. The dealer site says late December on the evos so I will probably just get the comp version and a talas 34, new wheels etc.Going back and forth from my demo 8 to big wheels is an easy transition. Not for everyone but it puts a new spin on trails we have been riding forever.Try it you might like it.
     
    #59 -   Oct 28, 2011
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2011
  20. mattmatt86

    mattmatt86 Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    6 / 10
    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2005
    Messages:
    5,390
    Location:
    Bleedmore, Murderland
    I want this



    Diamondback Dixon
     
  21. marshalolson

    marshalolson Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    3 / 66
    Joined:
    May 25, 2006
    Messages:
    1,452
    why is the top tube broken?
     
  22. mattmatt86

    mattmatt86 Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    6 / 10
    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2005
    Messages:
    5,390
    Location:
    Bleedmore, Murderland
    New Trend.
     
  23. Drth Vadr

    Drth Vadr Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    0 / 0
    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2011
    Messages:
    120
    Dher's can't get out of the mind set of slacker it better, and 29ers teeter on a much more balanced HA for max performance. I rock a RIP9 that has consistently pummeled the competition of the Stumpjumpers the Rumble Fishes. The CVA suspension is right up there with the Meastro, VPP, and DW. Man I sound like a fanboy.LOL

    By sportrider at 2011-02-13

    By sportrider at 2011-10-30
     
  24. DhDork

    DhDork Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    5 / 0
    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2007
    Messages:
    356
    Location:
    Hell, AZ
    Photo says Holbert, but from this angle, I can't distinguish where you are at.
     
  25. MDJ

    MDJ Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    0 / 0
    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2005
    Messages:
    673
    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    So in order to convince myself that 29ers are NOT any good for "aggressive trail riding", I took a demo Stumpjumper out for two days. I rode trails that I normally ride on a 160/170 mm coil bike. I fully expected to hate it except for the short road/fireroad climb to the top. That part was better. The first thing I noticed was the additional traction while climbing short, steep sections. Okay, but so what - I'm not really interested in climbing except to get it done as soon as possible.

    Once the trail turned down, it was, well, fun. To my surprise it jumped without a problem, tracked well, tuned easily enough and bermed or s-turns were a blast. Rocks, roots - no problem. Sure the shorter travel was a little more harsh through the rock garderns but that was too be expected. The rear tire was also inadequate and I reached its limits a few times.

    The one area where I felt that the 26er was definitely better was when you are flying down the trail coming into a short hard turn where you throw it sideways, jam it into the corner and then pop out heading a different direction. This took a little planning with the 29ers. I think most of this can be overcome with practice and more confidence in tires as it seemed to get much easier by the end of the second ride.

    Overall, it was a different and really fun experience. I expect the EVO version to be even better. I have a week to decide if I'm going to buy the 26 EVO or the 29 EVO.
     
  26. mr intense

    mr intense Chimp

    Rep/Likes:
    0 / 0
    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2008
    Messages:
    26
    trail 29-2.jpg trail 29-3.jpg trail 29.jpg
     
  27. bdamschen

    bdamschen Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    7 / 36
    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2005
    Messages:
    3,319
    Location:
    Spreckels, CA
  28. Pslide

    Pslide Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    5 / 0
    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2002
    Messages:
    1,381
    Location:
    Feet on the ground, head in the clouds.
  29. Sandwich

    Sandwich Pig my fish!
    Staff Member

    Rep/Likes:
    69 / 863
    Joined:
    May 23, 2002
    Messages:
    15,754
    Location:
    01776
    Can you buy them yet?
     
  30. Pslide

    Pslide Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    5 / 0
    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2002
    Messages:
    1,381
    Location:
    Feet on the ground, head in the clouds.
    Not yet. I don't know anything official, but probably late this year or early next.
     
  31. batts65

    batts65 Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    4 / 0
    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    183
    Location:
    Upstate NY
    Funny this thread came back up. I have been against 29er's, just no fun. No other reason. Then I started to see the NORCO and the Transition Bandit 29er. I would really like to demo one to see how they ride.

    I rode last night with a friend who is about equal at technical and definitely a stronger pedaler. He was on a Giant Anthem 29er and I was on my Trance X 26. He was killing me but it was like watching someone on a road ride, just pedaling away and I was "more active" in my riding. I was having fun, as was he, just in different ways. He was definitely struggling in the tight switchbacks.

    Not sure if it is for me or not, but with the AM 29er's coming out I think it would be worth a demo to see, but the XC 29ers do not feel right to me at all. I think that is what the OP was getting at, is the new crop of 29ers more suited for DH riders when we go trail riding??
     
  32. Pslide

    Pslide Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    5 / 0
    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2002
    Messages:
    1,381
    Location:
    Feet on the ground, head in the clouds.
    Just a caution, had I only done a demo ride on my Prime, I would have never been convinced. It took me three rides before things clicked. I'm not saying you shouldn't demo a 29er, but don't expect to be won over right away.

    I think the bottom line on 29ers is that they make riding easier. More stable, more grip, and the bigger wheels basically shrink obstacles...big rooty sections looks like small rooty sections, same with rocks. This is obviously attractive for the sketchy XC roadie who are weak technically. But in the hands of a skilled technical rider, this translates into higher speeds and greater control.

    Also, being a tire engineer, I did some calculations on camber thrust, which is basically how bike tires turn. Comparing 26 to 29 was very interesting, and it explained why 29ers corner the way they do. I could go into it in detail, but it's a bit geeky...
     
  33. mattmatt86

    mattmatt86 Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    6 / 10
    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2005
    Messages:
    5,390
    Location:
    Bleedmore, Murderland
    Camber Thrust is the new Yaw.

    Love the look of the Prime, it's a bit more burly(heavy) than what I want in a trail bike but looks like it would be a blast to try on some DH trails. I've had my eye on the Bandit for a long time but I still bounce back and forth with 26 vs 29. I had 3 29er hardtails in a row then went back to 26", now I've been thinking about going back to a 29er. Both have their pros and cons, sometimes it just depends on my mood.
     
  34. batts65

    batts65 Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    4 / 0
    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    183
    Location:
    Upstate NY
    Agree on the demo thing, my shop usually will have a bike sent there for a week, that way I can get a few days on it. I also have good days and bad days, I can tell which kind of day it is going to be from the start, but would really like to ride the bike on both good and bad days.

    Does the Prime have bearings of bushings?
     
  35. Pslide

    Pslide Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    5 / 0
    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2002
    Messages:
    1,381
    Location:
    Feet on the ground, head in the clouds.
    Yep, full bearings in the Prime. Super stiff back end too.

    Camber thrust just sounds cool. Good article here if you want to read about it: http://www.tonyfoale.com/Articles/Tyres/TYRES.htm
     
  36. Sandwich

    Sandwich Pig my fish!
    Staff Member

    Rep/Likes:
    69 / 863
    Joined:
    May 23, 2002
    Messages:
    15,754
    Location:
    01776
    careful, your bias is showing.
     
  37. batts65

    batts65 Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    4 / 0
    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    183
    Location:
    Upstate NY
    I am bias against the XC 29er's. I have riden plenty, they work but are not for me. I am curious about the new AM 29er's. Hoping they fit my riding style. On the XC 29er's I feel like I am on a road ride, they are too grounded, which is the way they are designed. That does not fit "my" riding style which I think the OP was saying the same thing.

    It looks like NORCO, Transition and Banshee (anyone else?) are trying to change that.

    Until then, yes, I am bias.
     
  38. epic

    epic Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    0 / 21
    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2008
    Messages:
    1,052
    Try the Intense Tracer29. The only 29er I have ridden that just felt like a bike. No getting used to it, just get on and ride.
     
  39. William42

    William42 fork ways

    Rep/Likes:
    17 / 284
    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2007
    Messages:
    3,671
    This bares repeating.
     
  40. Pslide

    Pslide Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    5 / 0
    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2002
    Messages:
    1,381
    Location:
    Feet on the ground, head in the clouds.
    This feeling never really goes away. I think because the BB is significantly lower than the rear axle and the bikes inherently have to have a longer chainstay, they just don't pull up easily. This sometimes leads to a little more tendency to steamroll stuff that you would have otherwise popped over on a 26.

    That said, 29ers jump great, and once up to speed this problem mostly disappears. I am also learning to exaggerate my body movements a bit more so I can get a little pop out of corners etc. It helps if you have a dropper post.

    In the end, I think the grounded feeling is more of just a negative perception than a real detractor out on the trail, but I will admit it takes a little fun out of the equation, and probably trades it for more control.