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29ers Outdated - 650B is the Future

syadasti

i heart mac
Apr 15, 2002
12,690
290
VT
Sorry, but this forum must be closed:busted:

Good thing I never bought a 29er :happydance:

[URL=http://www.bikeradar.com/news/article/pacenti-introducing-650b-mtb-tires-11794]Bikeradar.com[/URL] said:


Pacenti introducing 650B MTB tires

Posted by Gary Boulanger

Pacenti's 650B tire: the future of dirt? (Courtesy Pacenti Cycle Design)

Mountain bike wheel and tire standards have centered around the 26-inch (559mm rim diameter) platform, until Wes Willits and Gary Fisher brought 29-inch (622mm) to market nearly 10 years ago. Better rolling, they said, and by the looks of the current 29er movement, they're onto something. Kirk Pacenti believes in another size, known as 650B (584mm), for many legitimate reasons. Heaven help us!
According to Pacenti, the 650B size for off-road use has plenty to get excited about:
* With 650B wheels (which measure 27.5" in diameter, half-way between 26- and 29-inch wheels), full-suspension bikes can be produced with four to six inches of travel and throughout a wide range of frame sizes without abandoning proven 26-inch wheel frame geometry.
* 650B wheel bikes can be designed for a wide variety of uses from XC racing to 4X and DH racing.
* 650B wheel bikes can accommodate riders 5' 3" to 6' 4" tall or more.
* 650B wheels offer great obstacle roll-over capabilities for a smoother ride.
* Consumers are already demanding 650B bikes and bike designers are producing the bikes.
"What I believe 650B wheeled mountain bikes will allow builders to do, is to utilize proven 26-inch wheeled geometries, coupled with the largest wheel possible in a bike with little or no geometry compromises," Pacenti said. "As 140mm travel bikes become the norm (even for XC bikes) the 650B wheel size is going to make even more sense."
Hard to argue with Pacenti, but what about the effort it'll take to get the big tire makers on board? Pacenti has already covered that rocky ground. A Pacenti-designed and branded Panaracer-made 650B tire - the Neo-Moto - is currently in production and will be available by mid-September for $54.95US each. Current handmade samples weigh approximately 740g, according to Pacenti. In addition, White Brothers is producing suspension forks for the new wheel size, and Velocity USA, which has built 650B rims for the bicycle touring market for years, is already in production of their new Blunt, all-mountain MTB rim.
Because the 650B wheel size is compatible with many 26-inch wheel components numerous parts are already available. For instance, Maverick forks can be easily optimized for 650B wheels with a travel reduction kit, and some current 26-inch and all current 29-inch disk specific suspension forks will work with the 650B wheel size.
"The 650B wheel size makes more sense for a company looking to produce big wheeled bikes in the 100 - 150mm travel category"
"Kirk's forward thinking vision is correct in that 29'er wheels don't work well for frames with more than 100mm of rear travel," adds Noel Buckley of Knolly Bikes. "While working on the design of a 29er version of our new Endorphin frame, we started realizing that serious compromises would need to be made to the frame geometry due to undesirable forward wheel paths, chain stay lengths, and BB height all caused by the large 29" wheel diameter.
"Kirk knows what he's talking about," Buckley added. "The 650B wheel size makes more sense for a company looking to produce big wheeled bikes in the 100 - 150mm travel category because they get the rolling benefits of the larger tire, but don't have to modify frame geometries much, or have to contend with the design compromises imposed by 29 inch wheels."
As many as a dozen manufacturers will have 650B parts and components ready for this year's Interbike trade show and distribution of the new Pacenti 650B tires will be handled by a number of well-known distributors. (A list of distributors will be available soon.)
"I am fully committed to the 650B wheel mountain bike," says Pacenti. "I have been receiving daily inquiries from custom builders and even consumers who are very interested in the wheel size. Support for this project has been overwhelming. I truly believe 650B wheel bikes have a bright future in mountain biking."
Pacenti's 650B for-the-dirt evangelism is catching on. Numerous independent bike designers are fully embracing the new 650B wheel size and producing 650B frames. There are even some bigger players testing out the concept. The current list includes:
* Ahrens Cycles
* Carver Bikes
* El Camino Fabrication
* Engin Cycles
* Independent Fabrication
* Kent Eriksen
* Origin 8
* Pacenti Cycles
* Rawland Cycles
* Rivendell
* Rock Lobster Cycles
* Siren Cycles
* Soma
* Tomac Mountain Bikes
* Turner Suspension Bikes
* Vicious Cycles
* Walt Works
* Willits Brand
* ZR Cycles
 

Guitar Ted

Monkey
Aug 21, 2006
305
0
Waterloo, IA
Yeah, this is older news than most of us even know about! 650B was an old 40's and 50's era French touring bike craze that has hung on since and even was used briefly as a mountain bike wheel size in the early eighties by several companies. (I owned an '83 Raleigh Tamarack with 650B wheels until recently)

This "new" repackaging of an old idea is going to be another interesting experiment. My short take is that it will become a few things for mountain bikers including the following:

1. Somewhere for the "I wanna be different" crowd to go hang out.

2. A legitimate wheel size for use on long travel AM/FR/DH bikes where design limitations make using a 29"er wheel next to impossible.

3. A much better rear wheel size choice for bikes/riders looking for a big wheel benefit but not wanting to pay the weight penalties of a full on 29"er bike. ie: the "69er"/"96er"/half breed bike crowd.

4. A much better choice than 26" for riders 5'4" and under that are not suited to fitting on a 29"er bike.

I do not think the "mainstream" bike companies will bite on it, at least not in the short term. Too many choices are not good for dealers sales floors. (Ever heard of "Tyranny of Choice?) Plus, stocking mtb's in three different wheel sizes? Yeah........I don't think so! One of the three would have to die, and I don't see 26"ers going away anytime soon.

29"ers have just hit the "big time", with major manufacturers finally making high end parts for 29"er specific applications. They are going to want a return on investment before abandoning 29"ers, if they ever do.

Finally, I don't think the wheel format will be a big enough of a difference from 26 inch to sway folks heavily entrenched/invested into 26"er product. Not like 29"ers do. Heck, big meaty 26"er rubber is practically the same diameter as 650B already.

27five will make a splash, but I think that's about all it will do. Time will tell.
 

jbogner

Monkey
May 8, 2006
315
0
Fort Collins, CO
650B is dumb. It's still a compromise, and it's still too big a wheel size to make small long-travel bike geometry work, so where's the benefit? It's not going to be the new "one" wheel size, and if we're resigned to multiple wheel sizes (24, 26, 29), then the benefit of a 27.5 stuck in there is marginal, at best.

Good luck to Pacenti trying to sell companies on it. Seems like a small bike company just trying to make a name for themselves by doing something different for different's sake. I guess it's also a convenient way for other companies who've missed the boat with 29ers to jump in on this, then claim that they did it because the wheel size is "better."
 

MMcG

Ride till you puke!
Dec 10, 2002
15,457
12
Burlington, Connecticut
perhaps it is a way for smaller builders to try to "gain" a new market since teh big boys are now entering the 29er playing field in much larger numbers?
 

Guitar Ted

Monkey
Aug 21, 2006
305
0
Waterloo, IA
perhaps it is a way for smaller builders to try to "gain" a new market since teh big boys are now entering the 29er playing field in much larger numbers?
Interesting comment. I think that judging from a couple small builders I have talked to, you are very near the mark with your idea here.

And for the record, Pacenti is not a "bike company" in the traditional sense, but rather a bike parts supplier, specifically for frame building. Tubing and lugs are his business.
 

ÆX

Turbo Monkey
Sep 8, 2001
4,920
17
NM
a 2.7 dh tire is 27'' tall
no one will run these for dh/fr/trail
and miss out on all the 26 tires
that are available.

go big or go home.
 

Cloxxki

Chimp
May 9, 2006
56
0
Who dares to bet that blindfolded, he'll feel the difference of a 26.5" vs a 27.5" wheel in his hands, being handed just one of both?
It's a whole inch larger. Big wow.

All the arguments used by 650B against 29", also go for 26". So stick with that. It allows for smaller longer travel bikes, accellerates even better, etc, etc. If big is bad, then go small.

I bet that for me it's going to ride much like a 26"er, just a tad bit better.
And if you're a 26" fan, it's going to be bad like a 29"er, but much much less so.