Quantcast

2nd Broken Epic ... LBS = teh SUCK.

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by Blieb, Nov 7, 2005.

  1. Blieb

    Blieb Chimp

    Rep/Likes:
    0 / 0
    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2003
    Messages:
    66
    Location:
    In Yo Face!
    Getting bent ... sorry, no cliffs.

    I broke my 2nd 2004 Specialize Epic a couple weeks ago. Same spot, on the rear wishbone, just behind the drivetrain. I thought the shop was going to push for a whole frame, to keep a long time specialized customer happy ... but apparently not. I got a wishbone only that's a different color this time.

    (thread from first time:
    http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=106521)

    I was in Tampa for a race, which consequently I didn't get to compete in 'cause I had no bike!

    Anyways, I pick it up on Saturday (they expedited the part), and I got to pay $160!@#$!$!@#$

    $25 for the wishbone labor
    $10 new rear derailer cable
    $20 install cable
    $55 new rear tire
    $9 install rear tire
    $32 middle chain ring
    $10 install middle chain ring
    ------------

    Here's my beef. Please tell me if I'm out of line. The frayed wishbone cut the cable in half. When it happened, I was flying, and I smelled burning rubber after the pop, so I asked them to put a new tire on because I don't trust the integrity of the sidewall now.

    I bought some non-tubeless Continental's and some stans (shop recommendation for non-tubless) ... they kept leaking air. I actually ate sh!t one day because the tire rolled off the rim. My back still hurts from this, and it was 3 months ago. Anyways ... shop sells me some pythons at cost ($25 ea).

    Meanwhile, I'm winning the damn Florida State Mtn Bike Series ... racing Clydesdale Sport. I wear the shop gear, put them as my sponsor, etc.

    WHERE'S THE DAMN LOVE!? Paying full price + full labor for ALL parts!?

    The owner was out Saturday ... but I'm having hard time thinking of how to deal with this because I just want to flip the fvck out on him.

    ~20k in 3 years and this is what I'm reduced to!? Being boned time and time again!?

    Thread about when to stop supporting LBS:
    http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=116985
     
    #1 -   Nov 7, 2005

    Please register to disable this ad.

  2. Blieb

    Blieb Chimp

    Rep/Likes:
    0 / 0
    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2003
    Messages:
    66
    Location:
    In Yo Face!
    AND ... AND ... the LBS-Owner sits there telling me maybe it's time to buy a real bike. Currently they're pushing the Cannondale Rush ... but a few months ago they were pushing the Cannondale Scalpel ... and before that the Ellsworth Truth ...

    I try reasoning that when I bought the $2k Epic it was sold to me as a "real bike" ... I would need EP + trade in to even talk about some other piece. JUST FIX THE PERFECTLY NORMAL RACE READY MACHINE

    (I'm a little befrizzled, forgive my randomness) :)
     
    #2 -   Nov 7, 2005
  3. binary visions

    binary visions The voice of reason

    Rep/Likes:
    84 / 370
    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2002
    Messages:
    21,607
    Location:
    NC
    Ouch. Sounds like it's time to find a new LBS - if my LBS pulled that with me, I'd never go back.

    All an LBS has to offer now is customer service. There are too many great online shops to buy from now, and if they won't give discounts to a loyal customer, then f**k 'em. Buy a bike manual (I'd recommend Zinn and the Art of Mountain Bike Maintenance), buy your own tools, and flip 'em the finger. Find another LBS to handle your warrenty claims.
     
    #3 -   Nov 7, 2005
  4. skatetokil

    skatetokil Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    0 / 0
    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2005
    Messages:
    2,385
    Location:
    DC/Bluemont VA
    Indeed. My shop does most work on the spot for free and I dont even race.
     
    #4 -   Nov 7, 2005
  5. binary visions

    binary visions The voice of reason

    Rep/Likes:
    84 / 370
    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2002
    Messages:
    21,607
    Location:
    NC
    Uhh, I just re-read that and if you're wearing shop gear and doing well in the races, but still paying full retail for parts and labor (on top of being a loyal, paying customer), then you're crazy if you give that shop another nickel of your business. That's insane.

    Meet with the owner, give him his jersey back, tell him where he can stick it, and inform him that you'll never again recommend his shop to anyone.

    edit: As Echo so wisely pointed out, I jumped to the conclusion that the shop is actually doing some kind of sponsership deal with you. If they're not, I'd still say that full retail for a repeat racing customer is lousy, but not as bad as if you're sponsered.

    edit 2: I've got a great idea. It's a jump to conclusions mat. It'll be a mat, with different conclusions on it, that you can jump to.
     
    #5 -   Nov 7, 2005
  6. Echo

    Echo crooked smile

    Rep/Likes:
    5 / 1
    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2002
    Messages:
    11,818
    Location:
    Slacking at work
    A couple points to ponder:

    First, If you are expecting something from the shop in return for wearing their jersey at races, you need to have that worked out ahead of time. Most decent sized sized shops sell jerseys with their logo on them, and they damn sure don't do free labor for everyone who buys one. If you are riding for the shop, get a sponsorship agreement, otherwise you have nothing to complain about.

    Second, I don't know what weight qualifies one as a "clydesdale", but I'm guessing it's over 200lbs. I personally would not trust an Epic frame for a heavy rider. Get something stronger, even if it weighs a little more. Big dudes break lightweight bikes, no way around it.

    Third, when you leave your bike off for repairs, find out how much it's going to cost. Most likely they have their prices posted somewhere near the service area. It's not very realistic to assume the mechanic is going to not follow the price sheet.
     
    #6 -   Nov 7, 2005
  7. -dustin

    -dustin boring

    Rep/Likes:
    6 / 1
    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2002
    Messages:
    7,165
    Location:
    austin
    wow, that shop ****ed you over. no way in hell i'd promote them.

    --edit--

    on yeah, assuming they're actually sponsoring you.
     
    #7 -   Nov 7, 2005
  8. Jeremy R

    Jeremy R <b>x</b>

    Rep/Likes:
    43 / 392
    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2001
    Messages:
    9,459
    Location:
    behind you with a snap pop
    I agree.
    A sponsorship agreement would take care of all this.

    Talk to the owner and see if you have a sponsorship at all,
    and try to work it out.
    If he is rude as well, then walk into the shop on a busy Saturday morning wearing nothing but their jersey on your big clydesdale self.
    Then remove the jersey, and proceed to "floss" with it until all the customers leave. Then, you will be "teh win."
     
    #8 -   Nov 7, 2005
  9. sanjuro

    sanjuro Tube Smuggler

    Rep/Likes:
    7 / 0
    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    17,412
    Location:
    SF
    Warranties are a funny one for a shop. While no shop wants to see their customers out of luck on a broken bike, there is labor involved with warranties, which a shop may or may not feel is their responsibility.

    The reality with most shops is that they are not cash cows, and it sounded like about 2 hours worth of labor done on your bike, from installing the new wishbone to adjusting the rear derailleur. A promise of future purchases won't pay this month's rent. Sometimes even past purchases won't guarantee you free labor on very legitmate claims

    I have seen situations like this in many of the shops I have worked at. The owners are balancing good will vs. financial loss, and, frankly, with a customer who has broken the same bike twice, probably they are thinking about recouping the labor on both repairs.

    Also, racing on an ultra light bike is probably a bad idea for a clydesdale. I am 200+ and I ride a Kona Dawg, an overbuilt XC bike. While the Epic has other features, like the Brain Shock, is it light because the tubing walls are thinner than your standard trail frame.

    I think it is perfectly reasonable to feel raw about this situation. I hope my comments can give you some insights to owning a shop.
     
    #9 -   Nov 7, 2005
  10. Blieb

    Blieb Chimp

    Rep/Likes:
    0 / 0
    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2003
    Messages:
    66
    Location:
    In Yo Face!
    Ahhhh ... yeah I suppose a sponsor agreement would make things less "gray" ... I'm really just a recreational rider who has had great success in the series the last 2 years.

    ... a few weeks ago he threw some $ at me ... nothing big ... $100. Which doesn't cover one race weekend between travel, entry, hotel & food. (8 races in the series)

    Last year I wore the jersey, made mention of the shop in a couple newspaper articles ... etc ...

    I recognize that bike shops often time are more like charity centers. This guy runs 2 shops and another completely different business. He's not hurting. He's planning on a 3rd shop, I hear.

    I weigh in between 210-225 (depends what time of year bulk vs ride) ... I know "clydesdale" stuff isn't as glamorous ... but it's a tough class ... most of the guys are just tall, not fatties at all ...

    *shrug* ... I think after this season I'm going to take it easy on my back for a while to heal up ... but I definitely need to say SOMETHING to this guy ... obviously I'm getting walked on for a reason.
     
  11. Echo

    Echo crooked smile

    Rep/Likes:
    5 / 1
    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2002
    Messages:
    11,818
    Location:
    Slacking at work
    You should certainly say something to him if you feel you weren't treated fairly. Perhaps it's as simple as, the owner wasn't there when you picked up the bike, and the mechanics aren't authorized to discount repair work without his authorization.

    Or maybe he's a dick and doesn't like you.

    Or maybe he's a moron and doesn't realize the value of people standing on a podium with his jersey on.

    Only you can find out :D
     
  12. RhinofromWA

    RhinofromWA Brevity R Us

    Rep/Likes:
    7 / 0
    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2001
    Messages:
    4,627
    Location:
    Lynnwood, WA
    uhhh yeah....you are a larger than average MTBr. That is great. But if you are breaking lightewight racign machines it is time to look elsewhere.

    I am fat....not even clydesdale class material and I would understand after the 1st break that I should be catious and after the second one I would tell myself that I need something "more" than the current model you have can offer.

    It isn't the shops fault that the frame broke. And frankly the parts to replace as a result of the brake is not something they are responsible for...IMO. The labor bit can rub you the wrong way, if you think the shop owes you anything. I don't know your arrangement, so that is between you and the shop.

    Bottom line: You got a bike that isn't suited for you and your riding style. It is time for something else.

    Realistically, I would contact the owner "PROFESSIONALLY" and see if maybe you shouldn't have been charged the labor. If there was a mistake you can be reimbursed....if the missunderstanding was on yourside than I hope you feel embarrassed about getting all heated up over the annoying incident. I know I would be.

    I would not burn bridges there, because you never know when you might need their help in the future. I don't know how many shops you frequent in your area, but you probably chose this shop for a reason.

    You are angry with $64 of labor (wich you should do yourself anyway...that way the only idiot mechanic is yourself. That is my moto :) ) I don't know what the parts price breaks you were looking for would be.....don't care actually. All the parts are your responsibility to replace, but a discount would have been nice.

    Just don't go in there (or call) with an attitude and angry or you will get nothing.
     
  13. SkaredShtles

    SkaredShtles I love NEWCASTLE and will ONLY drink NEWCASTLE!!!!

    Rep/Likes:
    258 / 2,195
    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2003
    Messages:
    47,555
    Location:
    In a van.... down by the river
    Who says $hit like this? :think:

    Is Stoney in this picture somewhere?

     
  14. blt2ride

    blt2ride Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    8 / 0
    Joined:
    May 25, 2005
    Messages:
    2,334
    Location:
    Chatsworth
    Without a doubt, it sounds like you need change bike shops. Find a good Specialized dealer, and forget about the clowns you're been dealing with. To be honest, I've never really heard too many negative things about Specialized's service department, sounds like you did get kind of a bad deal...
     
  15. OGRipper

    OGRipper Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    9 / 111
    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2004
    Messages:
    9,691
    Location:
    NORCAL is the hizzle
    We don't know a lot of things here, such as this guy's attitude, how much he really gives back to the shop, etc. I tend to agree with Echo, the wrench was probably just doing his job. Too many bro deals can kill a shop. Plus, the mechanic might have been working on commission (in part anyway) and just figured this dude can work it out with the owner or he's gonna pay.

    And um dude did you really need them to replace your tire and a gear cable? I'd charge you full labor for that stuff too.

    Have you ever dropped off a car for service without finding out in advance what you are going to be charged?
     
  16. binary visions

    binary visions The voice of reason

    Rep/Likes:
    84 / 370
    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2002
    Messages:
    21,607
    Location:
    NC
    I agree, but he claimed he spent 20k over the course of 3 years. If any LBS charged me full price for all parts and labor after I'd showed that level of support, I'd tell them to get bent. We're not talking about "bro deals" as in, "Hey man, gimme a discount, I live in this town", we're talking about giving a reasonable discount to an extremely loyal customer who has spent a lot of money and will continue to spend more.

    As I said, all an LBS can offer is good service and customer satisfaction. They can't match the online prices. If they lose that service and the customer walks away unhappy, there's a good chance that customer is going to buy a few tools and start making purchases online.
     
  17. ridetoofast

    ridetoofast scarred, broken and drunk

    Rep/Likes:
    6 / 0
    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2002
    Messages:
    2,093
    Location:
    crashing at a trail near you...
    yeah you definately need to 'go to the matresses' with this guy.

    i've been really lucky. 4 broken frames, broken xtr crank (past warranty), tacoed wheel (on a bike i hadnt even finished paying yet) and my LBS has warrantied all of it, everytime. the owner knows i send them business all the time, and on several occasion have sold bikes while waiting for something on my bike to be done.
    call this dood out, tell him how you feel, diplomatically of course, and if he doesn't come round then haul ass and be SURE to tell him that the next 20K is going to his fiercest competitor...
     
  18. pnj

    pnj Turbo Monkey till the fat lady sings

    Rep/Likes:
    12 / 40
    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2002
    Messages:
    4,699
    Location:
    seattle
    some people make enough money to pay others to do work for them. be this work plumbing, wiring their house, fixing their car, etc.

    others don't make that kind of money or don't want to bother with the hassle of doing the work themselves.

    I would suggest;

    1. buy your own tools
    2. learn how to use them

    also, things break. if you beat the crap out of them, what do you expect?

    when one thing breaks, it may cause other things to break. when other things break, don't complain.

    if you want parts installed, it's going to cost you.

    I wouldn't say your out of line. just don't expect the LBS to help you.

    LBS's suck. order online and laugh as you watch the 'out of business' signs start to appear in their windows.
     
  19. OGRipper

    OGRipper Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    9 / 111
    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2004
    Messages:
    9,691
    Location:
    NORCAL is the hizzle
    BV I agree with a lot of this but we don't have enough information to say. The owner sounds like a tool, that much is for sure, and enough people here have said so. But if you ever worked in a shop that deals with racers you know that it's hard to opine on this situation without more detail. Just based on his initial posts it seems he has high expectations for freebies on labor. And as you might know, attitude and expectations go a long way at most shops. I am not saying this guy had a bad attitude, I am saying we don't know.
     
  20. maxyedor

    maxyedor <b>TOOL PRO</b>

    Rep/Likes:
    22 / 268
    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2005
    Messages:
    3,151
    Location:
    In the bathroom, fighting a battle
    at one of the shops i worked at we hade several locals on kickback sponsorship wich sounds like what you think you got going on, but theirs was at the least a verbal agreemen't. They should have covered you on the labor fo the dog-bone but the rest of the stuff is kind of a push. Now if they treat you like this constantly then yes go get yourself a new shop, but you may think you are sponsored when realy they just know your name, I see this all the time. If you always pull good results then shop around creat a resume' and try to sell yourself as an athlete that can help the shop expand, not just a good customer.
    Also buy some tools and learn how to do a little work by yourself, you deserve to be charged for a tire install.

    lesson to be learned, you're not sponsered unless you have a signed contract, if you don't like what they charge you, go somewhere else, even successfull shops love rider loyalty.

    one final note the epic is for 145-175 pound rage, get a light trail-bike that can handle your size
     
  21. Kntr

    Kntr Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    5 / 20
    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2003
    Messages:
    7,536
    Location:
    Montana

    There he is.... I see him.
     
  22. JRogers

    JRogers talks too much

    Rep/Likes:
    6 / 1
    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2002
    Messages:
    3,791
    Location:
    Claremont, CA
    Well, whatever the case, those prices seem a bit steep for them fixing stuff that broke when a product they sold you snapped. Not that they have any moral or legal obligation to help you out in that respect, but I have a feeling most shops would. There's a lot of variation with that kind of stuff among shops, though.

    The shop I frequent around here, for example, is good in that respect. A bolt slipped out of my Giant VT bent a few linkage parts and other bolts, the shock once got stuck in its travel and had to be sent to Manitou and once a bearing blew up in a link and I had to replace the bearing and link itself....they basically installed 95% of this stuff and I think I have payed them a total of 25$ or less including shipping etc. The most I've bought from them is a headset; never a bike. Mostly I get tubes and stuff.

    That type of thing is not typical, though. Make a bit of a stink over it, I say...
     
  23. Bicyclist

    Bicyclist Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    5 / 1
    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2004
    Messages:
    10,158
    Location:
    SB
    $9 labor to change a tire? That's really steep.
     
  24. blue

    blue boob hater

    Rep/Likes:
    2 / 0
    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2004
    Messages:
    10,165
    Location:
    california
    Ehhh...I don't think charging people ridiculous amounts of money to change tires/toobs is bad...I mean come on...only makes them learn :p

    I hated changing tires and toobs as a wrench, such a goddamned pain in the ass.
     
  25. sanjuro

    sanjuro Tube Smuggler

    Rep/Likes:
    7 / 0
    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    17,412
    Location:
    SF
    Weight should not hold you back. I came in 3rd in my state's crit championship, beating my rival who probably had 6% body fat. If let weight hold me back, I probably never ride again.

    But sponsorship is a very funny issue. Many shop owners question its value, and with good reason. Considering the majority of shop customers entry level riders who do not race, sponsoring racing has less Return On Investment than people think. Many racers have sponsorship and equipment deals, as well enough mechanical expertise to service their own bikes; making them less profitable customers.

    Neverthless I still believe sponsorship is important, even if it does not make dollars and sense. It is a good will thing, and the most successful teams, like Toga in NYC, will be good advertising.

    Specifically about your case, I do not know if you got jobbed. I am sure you could work it out with the owner, but the jersey on your back does not guarantee you a deal, unless you are sure your victories bring in the customers.
     
  26. hooples3

    hooples3 Fuggetaboutit!

    Rep/Likes:
    5 / 0
    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2005
    Messages:
    5,247
    Location:
    Brooklyn
    i dont even race and i get better deals from my LBS than that
     
  27. douglas

    douglas Chocolate Milk Doug

    Rep/Likes:
    5 / 0
    Joined:
    May 15, 2002
    Messages:
    9,889
    Location:
    Shut up and Ride
    you all are busting on the owner, BUT he wasn't even there!!!

    1/talk to the owner about this repair & sponsorship
    2/buy a beefier bike
    3/buy some tools
    4/fix your own rig
     
  28. Blieb

    Blieb Chimp

    Rep/Likes:
    0 / 0
    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2003
    Messages:
    66
    Location:
    In Yo Face!
    I had a 2003 Rockhopper. A cable-stay was cracked, so they upsold me an Epic.

    I was breaking parts on the Rockhopper, so the shop owner told me I should upgrade to an Epic (instead of replacement frame), that it was more sturdy and the rear suspension helps soak up the ground force that was causing me problems. UPSOLD! Love the bike. I didn't pick the Epic, they suggested. Mind you I weighed 260+ back then.

    -----------

    I know how to, and put on my last set of tires. It's just that I didn't specifically ask them not to put it on for me. I really do need to invest in a stand, some tools and a book ... several people recommend that zen book ...

    --------------

    I never go in there with an attitude. I'm a fun lovin' dude who likes to ride. I mostly just bitch around my closests friends, but I figured I'd check here and see how others felt.

    --------------

    Here's another example. I taco a front rim this summer ... nipples were nasty so it couldn't be trued. They tell me to get XL's ... that they're light enough for racing, and sturdy enough for me. I look online and can get XL's for $500 shipped. Shop wants $650, I said yeah right. He comes down to $575 ... I figure the $75 is worth it since they usually will true for $0 if it's a quick little adjustment.

    Well not a month later they're trying to sell me a Scalpel. I was like, WTF, scalpel is disc only ... "yeah, so just sell your old bike" ... So I'm like, I just put those wheels on! So he tells me to put some cheapies on the Epic and sell the XL's on ebay. 1 month later ... Sell them on ebay!?!?!? I just laughed it off .. but inside I was going ballistic.

    I was talking to one of the guys at the other shop, and he was a little shocked. I drive by the other shop like 6 times a day, so I stop in to say what's up (and flex my guns) several times a week.

    --------------

    I also tried to get this guy to let me make him a website over a year ago. He shows all this interest ... I was even willing to work out trade ... so it's cheaper for him than straight $'s ... he like expected me to make the site, then talk to him about it ... fvck that! I really wanted to do the site to help out, and so I could score on a road bike ...

    I think the problem here with everything is that the owner is delusionoid.

    I mean, it's not like I'm some punk ass. I'm 25 year old with a mortgage, full time 9-5 and responsibilities ...