[MTB_Rob_NC]

And Rob, just man the hell up and own up to contributing to the trail's closure!

Dont be an arse towards me. First off I do not deserve it, but even more importantly to you, because I can be a bigger one, and have much less to lose.


None of those trails you see pictures are from Bennet or Perry asshat. I did not ride either of those trails while I was up there. Youd think you would know your own freaking trails. Or maybe you would just learn to freaking read (the captions/picture thread) where we said what we had ridden.


Nothing was poached other then MAYBE jumping on the bikes too early from the top of the Parkway on Trace (we were WELL out of site), a legal BIKE trail ALL YEAR ROUND. Dumba$$. We even then proceeded to pedal back up the fireroad to go down Spencer. Godforbid. Its not like the exact same information isnt available in 3-5 BOOKS sold in every Bike shop in a 100 mile radius.

How about YOU man up and apologize.

Go ahead I am waiting.

The part that PISSES ME OFF...is that I will live here the rest of my life and now my local trail is shut down and you guys act like it 's no frickin' big deal. What if I came down and brought a group of 25-30 locals down and threw me a little festival at Markham park and got it shut down?

Bring it, 25-30 riders additional riders wouldnt even be noticed at our park on the weekend. We only have 4 places to ride and a population of 6 MILLION people. Good luck shuttling, you will need to bring your own mountain.


Your trail isnt closed because of any one particular instance. Unless you have some solid evidence that says MY (and other RMgathering participants) riding in North MILLS on Saturday (or even the guys on Sunday) contributed even 1 iota more then you ever have by riding it at any time in the past STFU and deal with it.

The funny thing is, every piece of Shuttling information I have learned is from Asheville/Pisgah area locals (not Biggins, he only showed me the Brown Mtn Death march) and bike shops. All I ever did was walk in and ask. Go ahead tell your favorite LBS to stop giving tourists information and see how long they stay in business.

Go figure, I dont even ride a Dh bike.



ps.. for the record. I have shuttled Perry/Bennet twice on one day, while it was open (at least 2 years ago) in my entire life. I can totally see how I contributed.

The Tourist point is that the majority of people asking for information will always be folks from out of town.

edited out some drunken nastiness (I should not post at 1am after drunken kickball)

 

[mtnbiker66]

Los Jefes,I live here too. I remember riding bennet rigid cro-mo and a lot of people would complain then.The last 6mo I have seen a lot of DH bikes in trucks heading up to the trailhead.With the horse stables right at the bottom you can see the conflict in the area. I could see this coming for a while.As far as the monkeyfest thing,I ran into lots of people from Canada doing DH runs this winter. They thought it was a good place to get in winter DH practice.When I tried to explain the user conflict thing they just looked at me like I had spiders crawling out of my ears.

 

[los jefes]

Uhhhh. What's your point. I said I don't think it was monkeyfest that shut it down and this has been a problem for the last couple of years.

 

[biggins]

Los Jefes,I live here too. I remember riding bennet rigid cro-mo and a lot of people would complain then.The last 6mo I have seen a lot of DH bikes in trucks heading up to the trailhead.With the horse stables right at the bottom you can see the conflict in the area. I could see this coming for a while.As far as the monkeyfest thing,I ran into lots of people from Canada doing DH runs this winter. They thought it was a good place to get in winter DH practice.When I tried to explain the user conflict thing they just looked at me like I had spiders crawling out of my ears.

thats because canadians dont have as many access issues, in my opinion.

 

[biggins]

Nothing other than the people who operate and patronize the horse stables have commented to the rangers about the the increased bike and vehicluar traffic related to the shuttling of Perry. I can only assume that the rangers felt it best to make them illegal to bikes. Everyone thought that we were being dicks to just be elitist, but we have been around long enough to know that this kind of stuff happens. So learn your lessons and move on.

i agree with this completely.

 

[eio]

I'll throw in my two cents. I live here. I've shuttled here. I've done quite a bit of trail maintenance here. I don't think the monkeyfest was the straw that broke the camel's back. There is absolutely NO evidence that it did. ............Some of it because of internet forums, some of it do to shops that told people it was a good shuttle (including the one in Brevard that leaked the info in the first place). What it boils down to is that the trails were not cut and designed with amount of use in mind. It does not drain like Tsali and is more susceptible to damage. Rangers, volunteers and hired hands have done a tremendous amount of work out there recently (some good, some bad) and shuttling, lack of sustainability and overuse have shut this down.

Exactly. And thinking back about it.....the day we were there, Perry was already pretty rutted in places. That kind of damage could only have happened over a period of time.

Bizutch, I've got no beef with you. Really.
I realize you're doing what you feel is necessary to preserve something you guys cherish. That is admirable.

Its just your approach and methodology I've noticed, that sets people on edge, including myself. So basically, I fock with you because it's real easy to get under your skin. Your blood pressure level shows right through in your posts.

But, I suppose that is because are passionate about what you love. So be it.

I'll say it again, I am sincerely sorry that trail got closed and now the "Empire" is watching. If you still believe our post sealed the fate of Perry.... I again am sorry.

But I will still disagree with you, because to me, this sounds like it was a long time coming.

The only thing I will cop to however, is ignorance of the situation at Pisgah. Had we known things were the way they were, we would not have made that post out of respect to the people, such as yourself, who frequent that area. I don't hang in here much so I was not aware of "the warnings".

Also for the record....none of us were on full-on DH bikes. I don't believe anyone had a bike over 6" and only a couple of us had FF helmets on.

I never ran into a situation like this out West, or anywhere else for that matter, so it did not occur to me (us).

I'm now laying down my hatchet................................

 

[profro]

The only thing I will cop to however, is ignorance of the situation at Pisgah. Had we known things were the way they were, we would not have made that post out of respect to the people, such as yourself, who frequent that area. I don't hang in here much so I was not aware of "the warnings".

Also for the record....none of us were on full-on DH bikes. I don't believe anyone had a bike over 6" and only a couple of us had FF helmets on.

I never ran into a situation like this out West, or anywhere else for that matter, so it did not occur to me (us).

I'm now laying down my hatchet................................

That was the point we were trying to get across originally. We couldn't tell you not to ride or shuttle those trails, because we do it too. However we didn't want you advertising here to increase the numbers of your group. We felt that increased numbers would draw unwanted attention. Granted Butch is about as smooth at 00 sand paper, however trust me he has biking intrests and land access well in mind. I brought this thread back up in a way to say "we told you so", but I thought the lessons learned would be more valuable. Trust me I take no satisfaction in being right on this, because I, Butch, and Jeremy have lost way more than those who just "visit" Pisgah.

I really don't think its the type of bike that rode down it, but the stigma that goes along with shuttling. Shuttling tend to invoke a free-spirited, we don't care attitude (right or wrong it doesn't matter) and I think it was the increased shuttling and the preception that brings that lead to the closure.

 

[bizutch]

Rob, you never once said you were not involved in the shuttling of Bennett. You stated you were in Pisgah, you were at Davidson River and I knew you were shuttling. I didn't have time to read the "review" of the Monkeyfest. If I had known that you weren't involved I wouldn't have pointed you out directly. But your statements made it seem that you were. For that I apologize.

But at the same time, anytime a group leader, i.e. Ben or Rob, brings a substantial group into Pisgah, it is best if you notify the Forest Service well in advance of your intentions. Todd Brammer got into lots of trouble with the Forest Service when he first started holding his "epics" in the Forest without prior notification. Since that time, he has spend hundreds of hours working on the trails in Pisgah, affiliated himself with Woody Keen's efforts, and always communicates with the Rangers well in advance to get "consent", not necessarily permission, but the blessings of the Forest Management.

With this in mind, in the future, Rob, Ben, etc...I would whole heartedly reccomend that if you intend on touring a substantial group in the forest on any given weekend for such excursions, let them know you're coming...that it is a one time thing, that you are responsible and let them know your intended routes through the forest. I thinkwe would all be perceived in a much better light if we communicate with the Rangers in advance instead of surprising them. That way they are less likely to become surprised or upset when you come into view.

To everyone else who's view is that it was a long time coming...perhaps. From the perspective of a local, I have witnessed the shuttling of Bennett/Perry expand exponentially in the last year and that is why I tried to fire off warning shots.

In regards to the erosion on Perry. Perry now is the EXACT same as it was 5 years ago the first time I rode it, if not slightly better. Bennet now...is by far BETTER than it was 5 years ago. Cyclists and hikers have made tremendous strides in maintaining the integrity of that trail. It sheds water very well. The steeps at the top of Perry are in better shape now than they were 5 years ago and again, thanks to trail work you would never realize (benching and shallow drains), it is less rutted and dries faster excluding that one flat spot in the middle...which of course is flat...so it's not gonna drain.

Again, it's my personal opinion that volume, not necessarily impact, have closed Perry to cyclists. Please see my "ideal scenario" in the Pisgah Trail Work thread started by Sanjuro.

 

[eio]

That was the point we were trying to get across originally. We couldn't tell you not to ride or shuttle those trails, because we do it too. However we didn't want you advertising here to increase the numbers of your group. We felt that increased numbers would draw unwanted attention. Granted Butch is about as smooth at 00 sand paper, however trust me he has biking intrests and land access well in mind. I brought this thread back up in a way to say "we told you so", but I thought the lessons learned would be more valuable. Trust me I take no satisfaction in being right on this, because I, Butch, and Jeremy have lost way more than those who just "visit" Pisgah.

I really don't think its the type of bike that rode down it, but the stigma that goes along with shuttling. Shuttling tend to invoke a free-spirited, we don't care attitude (right or wrong it doesn't matter) and I think it was the increased shuttling and the preception that brings that lead to the closure.

Yes, I believe your point was obscured by Butch & Co.'s "sandpaper" assault.
Fair enough though.

Our intent, I suppose was misleading.
We really were just looking for someone to either show us around or point us in the right direcrion since we'd never been there before.

I guess it turned into an advertisement. That was accidental and once the fur started flying it only made it worse.

Like I said, had we known, we would have kept it on the low.

 

[MTB_Rob_NC]

Rob, you never once said you were not involved in the shuttling of Bennett. ..... For that I apologize.

No problem thank you

But at the same time, anytime a group leader, i.e. Ben or Rob, brings a substantial group into Pisgah, it is best if you notify the Forest Service well in advance of your intentions.

Great advice, what is the best way to do that? Telephone? E-mail, stop in?

Any contact info you have would be greatly appreciated.

For the record this is the only shuttling I did on Sunday

my ride even abandoned me on the bottom and I had to walk back up, the Luggage cart went up hill even crappier then it went down.

 

[biggins]

that bottom picture makes you look mentally handicapped.

also we DID NOT SHUTTLE BENNETT!

 

[Jeremy R]

You guys need to kiss and make up.
No sense in finger pointing or any of that.
You should not have been blamed. It was not one weekend that got that place shutdown, but 3 years of overuse.
Anyway, as far as us getting kicked out of riding area that is not really true.
We were riding a shuttle that we have always done miles away from Pisgah (in SC actually on what is mostly private property. A ranger nicely told us that the entrance road is being shut down, and we can not use it anymore. We shook hands and left on a good note.
But my pizzy attitude this week is because I lost two good riding spots in a weekend. :mumble:

 

[MTB_Rob_NC]

that bottom picture makes you look mentally handicapped.

Really? I thought it was more of a I gotta pee or something look, but ya I can totally see the retard angle.


disclaimer!.....no offense meant towards any actual retards, and no retards were harmed in any shuttling that went on that weekend.

 

[biggins]

You guys need to kiss and make up.
No sense in finger pointing or any of that.
You should not have been blamed. It was not one weekend that got that place shutdown, but 3 years of overuse.
Anyway, as far as us getting kicked out of riding area that is not really true.
We were riding a shuttle that we have always done miles away from Pisgah (in SC actually on what is mostly private property. A ranger nicely told us that the entrance road is being shut down, and we can not use it anymore. We shook hands and left on a good note.
But my pizzy attitude this week is because I lost two good riding spots in a weekend. :mumble:

yeah the whole closure thing is getting real old real fast. Again i got set off by a couple of bad attitudes in here and adopted one myself.

i am now calm and thinking of solutions for the impending issues.

 

[mtnbiker66]

Uhhhh. What's your point. I said I don't think it was monkeyfest that shut it down and this has been a problem for the last couple of years.

My only point was that I agree. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[JerseyDave]

Why the hell would you need a rig to ride those trails. The right bike for pisgah is a steel hard tail with a granny gear and a 4 inch fork. Shuttling Multi use trals is dumb, IMHO. Asking for problems down the road. Get off your lazy duffs and pedal. Trace ridge on a DH bike must be about as exciting as watching paint dry.

 

[JerseyDave]

Why the hell would you need a rig to ride those trails. The right bike for pisgah is a steel hard tail with a granny gear and a 4 inch fork. Shuttling Multi use trals is dumb, IMHO. Asking for problems down the road. Get off your lazy duffs and pedal.

 

[eio]

Why the hell would you need a rig to ride those trails. The right bike for pisgah is a steel hard tail with a granny gear and a 4 inch fork. Shuttling Multi use trals is dumb, IMHO. Asking for problems down the road. Get off your lazy duffs and pedal.

You're so manly.......(kiss kiss)..... manly man........

 

[seabass]

Shuttles are for pu**ies. Ride your damn bike and leave the shuttling for designated DH trails. Butch is right, the best trails in Pisgah are deep in the woods where hikers are few and far between. DH/Freeride is going to be the end of mtb'ing in alot of places. We are just scratching the surface of this problem here, but I assure you, it's about to get really bad.

and when I go there I want to get in as much riding as possible we like to "shuttle."

That doesn't make sense. "I want to get in as much riding as possible, so I drive a car around Pisgah". Huh.

 

[eio]

Can this thread please go away now?

 

[seabass]

Can this thread please go away now?

Says the guy who responded yesterday.

After going back and rereading my post above I thought it sounded rather x-countryish. I should have added that I too love to ride DH stuff and shuttle some trails myself, but there is a time and place. Pisgah on the weekends is NOT the time and place.