[dfinn]

My heckler will hopefully be ordered in the next couple of days. SC says it will be a 3 week wait until I can get the color I want, I've been warned to be ready to wait longer than that.

This bike will be used for trail/xc riding with possibly a small amount of messing around on DJs and street type stuff.

My reason for considering the E.13 DRS setup is that on my trail bike last season I had alot of trouble with the chain coming off. The trails I ride are usually pretty rocky. The bike was a hardtail however and that could've had alot to do with it.

I hardly ever use/used my middle ring, I was almost always either in 1 or 3. So what I'm thinking is getting a setup with a small ring for climbing and then a big ring for descending.

What do you guys suggest?

 

[punkassean]

Get a DRS with a 22/36 and call it a day...

 

[Mtnrider]

Get a DRS with a 22/36 and call it a day...

I totally agree, I have a heckler with a DRS 22/36 combo and it rocks!

 

[bradical]

If you can find one with a MTX bash, go for it. Then it fits up to 40T rings. I'm runnin a 28/38 and it rules. I found mine at go-ride.

 

[MikeD]

What these guys said. I *thought* a big ring would be valuable to me on my XC/trailbike...all it did was threaten to ruin my ride by bending on rocks, and I rarely used it except when descending fireroads. And even then, a 36/11 isn't so bad...

 

[OGRipper]

Yeah what they said. A 22 - 42 combo (which I guess is what you meant by "1 and 3") is definitely different and it might work, but a 36 is usually plenty when combined with an 11 or 12 in the rear. I've been running a 22-36 with a DRS on a vp-free all year and have never lost a chain and never felt like I needed a taller gear. If you are convinced you need a triple you might want to check out the heim guide, I don't have one but know a few people who do, and they love it.

 

[MikeD]

22-42 definitely won't work. 14t jump shifts fine, seen 16t work OK...but 20t? I wouldn't try it...

 

[JRogers]

Well, I will differ with the others here a bit. I think it depends on your terrain and riding style/ability and fitness.

I rode a bullit for a long time when I lived in NJ. I almost never used the big ring. I totally stopped using it when it was so bent that it wouldn't actually shift there anyways. Eventually I went to a 2 ring 22-36 setup.

I now ride a Giant VT (lighter setup, better pedaller) and I use it on easier/faster trails with a bit of road riding just to get to the trails. My rides are also shorter and harder than what I did before. I have a road cassette on there now and I think it would be a total pain if I didn't have a triple on it. I use the 42T on there quite a bit on the trail.

 

[punkassean]

I always ran a 3-ring up until about 3-4 years ago when the 22-33-bash became popular. I tried that setup and found that I needed more than a 32 even just for cruising on the streets. That's when I began searching for a better solution. I saw the DRS at Interbike and was totally impressed by the action but the noise was too much for long pedals. My buddy at MRP hooked me up a fatty LRP in the max 40t size and I slapped that on my XTR 5-bolt cranks with a 24-36 and was pleasantly surprised to find that just adding 4 more teeth to the front made a huge difference. I've been running a 36t max (22/24 granny) for about 2.5-3 years and I have rarely wanted more. I've never wanted more so much that I'd be willing to compromise all the other benefits of the 22/36 DRS. You can climb a heavy bike with a 22 front, 34 rear and you can bomb pretty fast with a 36 front and 11 rear. That is the best compromise available at this time with the products on the market. If you need more top-end then you will need to be a strong climber because your granny will need to go up accordingly to your big-ring.

 

[OGRipper]

Punkassean is speaking my language, my experience is very similar. Once you experience the benefits of the DRS it's tough to go back to a regular triple for an aggressive bike. But there are compromises whatever you do. I would never put a double on my lightweight XC bike but I never lose my chain on that bike. JRogers, you make some good points too.

DFinn it really depends on how much you use the upper end of your current set up. If you find yourself using your big ring with the middle to larger (easier) cogs in the back, you'll be ok with a 22 - 36 (or maybe a 38). Combined with an 11 or 12 it will give you pretty good top end. Also, assuming you're existing midddle ring is a 32, you'll be surprised how four (or six) more teeth will really make a difference. You might want to check out a gear chart to look at the specific differences.

Not to mention that regardless, chances are good you'll go a lot faster if you can keep your chain all the way down the hill...

One other thing to consider is the pivot location on the heckler, as I recall it's positioned to maximize efficiency in the middle or big ring, but will get a little more "bob" in the granny. So if you run a 32 with a wide cassette you might be able to keep it in the 32 and have better pedaling efficiency in certain situations, whereas with a 42 you would need to drop it in the granny sooner...just my $.02...ok, so it was more like a nickel...

 

[Smelly]

i've been running a 24-36-bash with an 11-34 in the back for 2 years now. i use the bash guard more often than i used to use my big ring for downhills.

 

[Cwilly006]

If your set on three rings I would check out the Heim 3-guide I have heard some pretty good things about these but never tried one
http://www.go-ride.com/prod_2ring_guides.html

 

[dante]

just say screw it and run a single 36t ring up front. you'll get those sexy SS'er quads in no time.

 

[mobius]

I run a heckler 22/36, dont even recall hitting the smallest cog in the back ever on it and i try to pedal a lot when riding DH on it.

 

[Cant Climb]

I have been riding Hecklers since 98........currently i am on the 2003 version. The setup i found that works best is 26-32-40. That way you can run a fairly short chain and there isnt alot of slop when you are in the 26 and 32.

Having a 22 for a granny gear is a complete waste IMO. No bike now-a-days needs a 22. With the 32 toothe rear cassettes i see no reaon for a 22. The 26 is nice because if you have a steep climb you stay in the gear if there is a short plateau and still cruise. I run a Truvativ DH 40 on the outside it is super thick and handles the abuse.........the 40 also allows you to do short climbs if a descent has some mild uphills............42 is just too big for trail riding IMO.

 

[Bikael Molton]

Who is running 22/36/bash on their trail rigs without a guide?

I'm trying to decide if I should put a DRS on my new bike (4 1/2" travel). I was thinking of trying just the front derailleur to see if I can get away with it. I run a mid cage rear derailleur.

-rob

 

[El_Chimichanga]

I hate 3 ring setups, they really don't make any sense. I raced the sea otter XC on a borrowed 1999 Heckler with 3 rings and never once used the small ring. IMO the 22 cog is pointless. You can walk faster uphill than it will pedal you.

I've been running a 2 ring system for about 3 years now, mostly with a 26-38 combo with an LRP. I've even raced with this system and it has it's ups and downs. I'd say it's no good for racing downhill (on my bullit) but great for XC or anything else (on my 2002 Heckler).

It's a little tricky getting the F. Derailler setup right b/c the alignment block is all wrong when you have a 38t chainring instead of your standard setup. It took me about an hour the other day to setup mine for my new DRS so that it didn't make any noise in any of the gear combos. You have to limit the der from being able to go to the third ring as well as get a 118mm BB instead of a 113. The 113 just doesn't really line up the chainrings right (since you aren't even using the biggest ring).

The DRS setup was definately a little bit more complex to setup than the LRP but I would also like to mention that it is more sophisticated as well. I would agree that it makes more noise than the LRP but for some reason that "chain-buzzing" sound doesn't bother me at all and I tend to enjoy it.
I haven't had the chance to try out my DRS yet, but what is really important to look for is if you can:
a. still back pedal a long time without the chain dropping
b. shift from big to little ring in all the gear combos. (sometimes Big/little combos prevent the chain from shifting up front)
c. don't drop the chain when shifting down- it will tend to fall on your BB and strip the paint off of it.

I think all of those problems have to do with Chainline and der. limits.
OH yeah, you will prolly want a Med cage R. Derailler as well as have to shorten you chain just a bit (2 links?)

One more thing, having a 26 or 28 small chainring up front changes your cadence when climbing, and you will HAVE to climb faster than a person with a smaller front chainring on really steep climbs. I hate following my buddy Josef up steep stuff cause I constantly catch him and have to wait for him to spin. I find that that is the only real fallback of the system. It really gets on my nerves now. Now I just start tugging on his jersey or rubbing his real tire to get him to speed up.

 

[Smiftie]

Like its been stated get the DRS

 

[dw]

I have seen a couple of people mention DRS and noise. FYI, All DRS guides since 2003 have come with the Stealth roller, which is TOTALLY silent. Quieter than any other roller on the market that we have tested and longer lasting to boot. 2002 was the only year that the DRS came with the harder and louder hard roller. Those hard rollers are still available to those who like them as a seperate item.

Also, for setup, I would definitely argue that the DRS is easier to set up than any other 2-ring guide. Its practially foolproof. 1 plate for a 113, 2 plates for a 118 etc... As long as you know what your BB spindle length is, there is no way to mess it up. Even if you dont know your BB spindle length, the integrated guide alignment tab will tell you if its set up correctly or not just by looking at it. There's no guesswork involved.

Good luck Dfinn! If you have any specific questions, hit Jonas up at support@e13components.com and he will get right back to you with answers.

Dave

 

[MikeD]

I have seen a couple of people mention DRS and noise. FYI, All DRS guides since 2003 have come with the Stealth roller, which is TOTALLY silent. Quieter than any other roller on the market that we have tested and longer lasting to boot. 2002 was the only year that the DRS came with the harder and louder hard roller. Those hard rollers are still available to those who like them as a seperate item.

Holy crap, I took my old DRS off the shelf and put it on my XC bike 2 weeks ago or so (somewhat topically)...DAMN, I forgot how loud those suckers were!! I need to order a Stealth from you guys...
Edit: been using a stealth on my other DRS, I forgot to say...it's the comparison to the old roller that made such an impression.

MD

 

[Mani_UT]

Having a 22 for a granny gear is a complete waste IMO. No bike now-a-days needs a 22. .

Huh?
Either you have some pro roadie type conditionning or we don't ride the same type of hills! I garantee you that for many people (including me) a 22x34 often comes handy when you are already way in the red and there is still miles of climbing ahead of you!

 

[El_Chimichanga]

I have seen a couple of people mention DRS and noise. FYI, All DRS guides since 2003 have come with the Stealth roller, which is TOTALLY silent. Quieter than any other roller on the market that we have tested and longer lasting to boot. 2002 was the only year that the DRS came with the harder and louder hard roller. Those hard rollers are still available to those who like them as a seperate item.

Also, for setup, I would definitely argue that the DRS is easier to set up than any other 2-ring guide. Its practially foolproof. 1 plate for a 113, 2 plates for a 118 etc... As long as you know what your BB spindle length is, there is no way to mess it up. Even if you dont know your BB spindle length, the integrated guide alignment tab will tell you if its set up correctly or not just by looking at it. There's no guesswork involved.

Good luck Dfinn! If you have any specific questions, hit Jonas up at support@e13components.com and he will get right back to you with answers.

Dave

Dave,
I'm running the stealth roller and it's not *TOTALLY SILENT* but like I said I don't care either way. (Did I set it up wrong? Does it take some time to go quiet? My friend's DRS is quieter than mine so I'm interested in what I might have done.) Don't rule out that the buzzing may be coming from something else too.
I agree that the system is idiot proof and the instructions are very easy to read, but you have to admit there are a few more steps when setting up the DRS than an LRP. This doesn't mean it's hard to setup, just a little bit more involved. I like it better BTW, it's more solid and also it's BLACK! So nice looking!

 

[Mtnrider]

Huh?
Either you have some pro roadie type conditionning or we don't ride the same type of hills! I garantee you that for many people (including me) a 22x34 often comes handy when you are already way in the red and there is still miles of climbing ahead of you!

Same here, my Heckler weights 36lbs and I NEED a small ring like a 22 or 24 in Colorado and Utah. But I'm no roadie!

 

[Cant Climb]

Huh?
Either you have some pro roadie type conditionning or we don't ride the same type of hills! I garantee you that for many people (including me) a 22x34 often comes handy when you are already way in the red and there is still miles of climbing ahead of you!

I switched to the 26 like 18 months ago and it sooooo much nicer. I still can climb anything, in fact i feel i have a more usable spin........22 i would be spinning/slipping traction on the ground on really really steep headwalls. You can cruise the 26 also on the flats if need be........

22 grannys are for the old 7 speed, 8 speed days when your top cog in the back was 28........everyone running 32 now......

26-32-40 is killer......for DH's chain should be wrapped tight on the 40. It wont come off.......its nice man....give it a try !

 

[OGRipper]

IMO the 22 cog is pointless. You can walk faster uphill than it will pedal you.

Well that might be true for you but for a lot of other people a 22 (maybe a 24) is needed for long steep climbs, especially on a heckler or similar bike with a somewhat burly build (30 lbs or more, big tires, etc.). Maybe you can ride around Henry Coe Park for 6 hours without a granny but I can't. Hell I can't ride up the "wall" to the crack at Montara without a granny and that's not even a long climb. Maybe you push more than me, but personally I'd rather ride than walk.

 

[Bikael Molton]

This granny gearing argument might be a west/east thing. I know that I sure needed 22/32 or 24/32 for the climbs in Norcal, but I'm no XC racer.
There aren't a lot of rolling hills around there (UCSC/Demo Forest/Pacifica/Peninsula/Marin/Shasta/Downieville). I think the up/down extremes are generally higher than what I've seen out here in New York.

just my .02

-rob in NY

 

[dfinn]

I think I would agree with above. I'm not that aggessive of a climber, I pretty much hate it and just look forward to the way down. Whatever is on my bike now (i'm guessing 26 but I need to check) has always had me feeling like I could use something smaller.

 

[El_Chimichanga]

Well that might be true for you but for a lot of other people a 22 (maybe a 24) is needed for long steep climbs, especially on a heckler or similar bike with a somewhat burly build (30 lbs or more, big tires, etc.). Maybe you can ride around Henry Coe Park for 6 hours without a granny but I can't. Hell I can't ride up the "wall" to the crack at Montara without a granny and that's not even a long climb. Maybe you push more than me, but personally I'd rather ride than walk.

Agreed, you should tailor it to whatever terrain you are riding and what skillz you have. I still think that 22 is a cop out.
911 and me once rode our DH bikes up the wall and we really suprised some XC'ers when we passed them. We were all smiles and sunshine but they knew it was really like :nuts:

 

[OGRipper]

That's cool Chimi, to each his own...and it's hilarious how people will suffer up a climb in agony with their faces contorted in pain, then try to act all nonchalant when passing or getting passed...I do it too, don't know any rider who doesn't...

And yeah, it could be an east/west thing, I grew up in New England and have lived in the Bay Area for 8 years, the climbing in the west is generally more difficult (longer, steeper, looser in my experience). But I think Chimi's in Santa Cruz so we can just assume he's a turbo freak exception...

Dfinn, if you know you need a 22 (or 24 or 26) and you lose your chain a lot with the triple, definitely consider the DRS with a 22-36 or some other double set up.

 

[dw]

Dave,
I'm running the stealth roller and it's not *TOTALLY SILENT* but like I said I don't care either way. (Did I set it up wrong? Does it take some time to go quiet? My friend's DRS is quieter than mine so I'm interested in what I might have done.) Don't rule out that the buzzing may be coming from something else too.

I can't imagine what you could do to set it up wrong, so I would bet that the noise is coming from somewhere else. You might be able to hear a little pitter patter in the stand, but it makes a good deal less noise than a SRAM or Shimano derailleur pulley, and when you are riding, you cant hear a thing, at least on every one I have ever set up.

Who knows though, as long as you are happy, then we are happy that youre happy

ride on!

Dave

 

[punkassean]

Setting up the DRS on my Enduro was a breeze and much easier than my LRP. I had to play with BB spacers on hte LRP and a 116mm XTR bb to get it to where the cahin didn't rub much on the LRP boomerang in the granny 26f/34r combo. The DRS just bolted up (after dremeling the ISCG holes) and has worked well since. Mine is if not completely silent negligiably close. I hate noise so I'm sure I'd notice if it was making any...

My only issue is that the Saint short cage der. is super short and with an 11-34 and a 22-36 I can't run all my gear combos because the cahin is either too slack or too tight. I think I'll go to a 24t granny when the 22 wears out. I ran a 26-36 and then a 24-36 on my old LRP setup and that was fine for any climb but that bike only weighed 30lb, my new ride is 34 so the 22 is nice but a 24 would also be fine, 26 would be a push in some instances (little pine, Henry Coe etc!)

DRS ROXORZ MY SOXORZ!!!!!

 

[Zark]

DRS with a 22-36 is a great setup. Good gear range for getting up and hauling down singletrack. No more lost chains and bent big rings.

I need the new boomerang for my DRS, I got the old noisy roller and sucky interchangable plastic guide plates. It hols the chain on but with a LOT of noise.
No doubt the new one would fix that.

 

[RhinofromWA]

I have a DRS on my HT and am currently running a 22-32 (what came stock with the cranks set and it is not enough at times on the road (the 32t) but I get by. It is pretty darn quiet on my HT. I don't even notice it down there.....that is the most important thing in my book. If I can ride my HT with slicks on the road and the guide is not noticed I give it a

If these guys are suggesting a 22-36 I would say that is probably pretty right on. 32t just isn't enough sometimes.

 

[SinatorJ]

I just bought a Yeti 575 and went with a single ring E13 36 tooth, a little tall for Sedona, AZ, but should be perfect for Flag. Don't need a front Derailer.

 

[Kntr]

I run 22/36 ENVY rings. The 32 just wasn't enough. The rings made a huge difference in shifting. The rings are huge and the ramps are huge too.

How many people actually run a 22/38. Ive never needed more than a 36 but how does a 22/38 shift?

 

[Montara]

Well that might be true for you but for a lot of other people a 22 (maybe a 24) is needed for long steep climbs, especially on a heckler or similar bike with a somewhat burly build (30 lbs or more, big tires, etc.). Maybe you can ride around Henry Coe Park for 6 hours without a granny but I can't. Hell I can't ride up the "wall" to the crack at Montara without a granny and that's not even a long climb. Maybe you push more than me, but personally I'd rather ride than walk.

Haha - it’s nice to see the wall and the crack in the same sentence. Two primary reasons I developed the 3Guide, the other being the ride between the mountain and my house. I live by the pier in Pacifica so I’ve got a nice xc section each way to Montara mountain. In my own transition from xc to dh I refused to compromise gearing since I still had to ride to the mountain, up the mountain, down the mountain, and back. As it’s been said, it depends on where you live and what you ride. Either way - 1, 2, or 3 rings, there are plenty of options for people which is a good thing in this fragmented sport of ours.

 

[dw]

I need the new boomerang for my DRS,

Hey Zark,

Unless your back plate is somehow mangled, all you would need is a stealth roller kit and a new wear plate kit. QBP and BTI both carry them and if you are in a pinch you can get them from the e13 store.

DRS wear plate parts tree at e.thirteen store

Stealth Roller at e.thirteen store

Hope this helps!

Dave

 

[Zark]

Hey Zark,

Unless your back plate is somehow mangled, all you would need is a stealth roller kit and a new wear plate kit. QBP and BTI both carry them and if you are in a pinch you can get them from the e13 store.Hope this helps!

Dave

Dave,

If that is the case, thats awesome, but I'm pretty sure my boomerang is signifigantly different than the current model. The new ones have two bolts for the carrier and roller, while mine only has the roller.
I attached a photo, hope this helps narrow it down.

Noah

 

[dw]

Dave,

If that is the case, thats awesome, but I'm pretty sure my boomerang is signifigantly different than the current model. The new ones have two bolts for the carrier and roller, while mine only has the roller.
I attached a photo, hope this helps narrow it down.

Noah

Yo Noah

Im not sure what it is, but its not a DRS! We've never sold one without 2 bolts or without an outer plate! That bashring is from one of the first 100 Evil Security guides sold in 2000. That baby's been kickin for almost 5 years now!

Dave

 

[Zark]

Yo Noah

Im not sure what it is, but its not a DRS! We've never sold one without 2 bolts or without an outer plate! That bashring is from one of the first 100 Evil Security guides sold in 2000. That baby's been kickin for almost 5 years now!

Dave

Well I'll have to take some better photos of whatever it is..
The boomerang has a clear plastic guide plate that goes underneath the 2 stepped roller. It also had a E type derailler mount, I had to cut it off because of clearance issues.

Noah