[goneriding15]

Rider info: 6’7, 240lbs, aggressive rider, occasionally race enduro, socal trails

Bike setup: transition sentinel v2, 170mm fox 38 grip2 vvc

fork setup (clicks from fully closed):
128psi 0 tokens
HSR: 1
LSR: 4
HSC: 6
LSC: 10

For my riding style and weight, would the grip2 with a face shim be better, or more beneficial to go with a grip1 and custom tune it? Currently riding a fox 38 performance with a grip2 dropped in. No real complaints yet, just a tinkerer so I’m curious what everyone’s opinions are. Using a good bit of travel (possibly too much sometimes) on the 38 and notice brake dive.

1) put a face shim in the grip2 to get the brake dive under control (~$100)
2) buy a takeoff grip damper, custom tune it, and sell the grip2 (break even-ish after selling grip2)
3) something that I haven’t thought about but am open to

what say the experts here?

 

[buckoW]

Rider info: 6’7, 240lbs, aggressive rider, occasionally race enduro, socal trails

Bike setup: transition sentinel v2, 170mm fox 38 grip2 vvc

fork setup (clicks from fully closed):
128psi 0 tokens
HSR: 1
LSR: 4
HSC: 6
LSC: 10

For my riding style and weight, would the grip2 with a face shim be better, or more beneficial to go with a grip1 and custom tune it? Currently riding a fox 38 performance with a grip2 dropped in. No real complaints yet, just a tinkerer so I’m curious what everyone’s opinions are. Using a good bit of travel (possibly too much sometimes) on the 38 and notice brake dive.

1) put a face shim in the grip2 to get the brake dive under control (~$100)
2) buy a takeoff grip damper, custom tune it, and sell the grip2 (break even-ish after selling grip2)
3) something that I haven’t thought about but am open to

what say the experts here?

@englertracing Is probably the expert on this one. At your mass it seems like moar shims would be necessary.

 

[englertracing]

@englertracing Is probably the expert on this one. At your mass it seems like moar shims would be necessary.

Moar shims

 

[englertracing]

Fox 40 VVC set up

Hi! Anyone has experience setting these up? My settings for 75 kg (with all gear): 75 psi 2.5tokens 8 lsc 6 hsc 7lsr 6hsr Find them to work good but maybe they are a little underdamped vs previous versions?

ridemonkey.bikemag.com

Same rec as here.

 

[goneriding15]

So more rebound shims and a face shim in the grip2?

How would that compare to a custom tuned grip1?

 

[englertracing]

So more rebound shims and a face shim in the grip2?

How would that compare to a custom tuned grip1?

Re your setup
These have very little HSC.
I'm surprised you don't have it cranked down.

A grip 1 base valve is a hunk of junk.
No lsc bleed and a dished piston, the adjuster preloads the shimstack into the dish.
The grip 2 non vvc is the same but adds a lsc needle to bypass the stack.

I would add one face shim to the base valve,
Test, then if you want more consider adding another, for cost reasons doubling the second shim would be reasonable, and you would need to remove another shim above the leafs.

After fixing the compression, for the rebound
I think they are over damped for normal weight folks.
I think you should put that hsr adjuster to work and see what you can do. If the hsr is still too fast at 0 then adding a shim would be a good idea.

 

[englertracing]

Re your setup
These have very little HSC.
I'm surprised you don't have it cranked down.

A grip 1 base valve is a hunk of junk.
No lsc bleed and a dished piston, the adjuster preloads the shimstack into the dish.
The grip 2 non vvc is the same but adds a lsc needle to bypass the stack.
The grip 2 vvc uses a different piston but the adjuster is pretty ineffective

I would add one face shim to the base valve,
Test, then if you want more consider adding another, for cost reasons doubling the second shim would be reasonable, and you would need to remove another shim above the leafs.

The only way to get these 4mm ID shims is to get the kit.
(The e bike Vaving has an extra shim making it a 2 stage setup (who the hell knows why they want to make softer ass 2 stage valving for heavy ass e bikes) but I've seen it can be more avaliable it's part number 820-03-677-KIT) or the 820-03-660-KIT above.

After fixing the compression, for the rebound
I think they are over damped for normal weight folks.
I think you should put that hsr adjuster to work and see what you can do. If the hsr is still too fast at 0 then adding a shim would be a good idea.

Also a side note on oil.
Any 16cst oil will work in place of the Fox 5wt
I'll be subbing in torco RFF5 or golden spectro 85/150

 

[sundaydoug]

A grip 1 base valve is a hunk of junk.

In your opinion is the Grip base valve junk for someone of his weight or just junk in general?

I'm 150lb and have a 38 with the Grip damper. Need to send it in for service at some point, considering a Grip 2 swap.

I have no complaints, just curious what the difference would be, aside from adjustability.

 

[djjohnr]

Steve gives a good overview of the Grip 1 here -

I've been riding on one for the past month. I have a new Grip 2 VVC I can throw in it eventually, or I might pick up an older RC2; however for now I've been pretty impressed with how the Grip 1 rides given it's a budget damper.

 

[englertracing]

In your opinion is the Grip base valve junk for someone of his weight or just junk in general?

I'm 150lb and have a 38 with the Grip damper. Need to send it in for service at some point, considering a Grip 2 swap.

I have no complaints, just curious what the difference would be, aside from adjustability.

Because it has no low speed bleed.
Lsc adjustment is kind of a big deal

You can order and Install a grip 2 base valve assembly. Total drop in.
I made a video comparing grip 1, 2 and 2vvc in depth quite some time ago because some dipwad at the lbs refused to sell my friend a grip 2 base valve "because the grip 1 has no high speed circiut" I haven't had a chance to edit it and upload it yet.

You won't get hsr adjust but who cares

 

[goneriding15]

Because it has no low speed bleed.
Lsc adjustment is kind of a big deal

You can order and Install a grip 2 base valve assembly. Total drop in.
I made a video comparing grip 1, 2 and 2vvc in depth quite some time ago because some dipwad at the lbs refused to sell my friend a grip 2 base valve "because the grip 1 has no high speed circiut" I haven't had a chance to edit it and upload it yet.

You won't get hsr adjust but who cares

so your preference is a grip2 straight out of the box and add shims if necessary?

 

[englertracing]

so your preference is a grip2 straight out of the box and add shims if necessary?

Well my preference is actually RC2
If I had a 38 I would probably machine an adapter and run one.....

Basically
Grip 1, hsc adjuster preloads shim stack into piston recess. No lsc bleed or adjuster to permit lockout action.

Grip 2, same hsc adjuster action and piston, but a lsc adjuster (needle controlled bleed), if you closed the lsc the grip 2 will act just like a grip 1 and Even give a lockout action.
1 and 2 can make huge amounts of damping.

Grip 2, vvc new piston of the 3 port linear variety(a good thing),but unfortunately it's got very low levels of damping and an ineffective HSC adjuster

 

[goneriding15]

Well my preference is actually RC2
If I had a 38 I would probably machine an adapter and run one.....

Basically
Grip 1, hsc adjuster preloads shim stack into piston recess. No lsc bleed or adjuster to permit lockout action.

Grip 2, same hsc adjuster action and piston, but a lsc adjuster (needle controlled bleed), if you closed the lsc the grip 2 will act just like a grip 1 and Even give a lockout action.
1 and 2 can make huge amounts of damping.

Grip 2, vvc new piston of the 3 port linear variety(a good thing),but unfortunately it's got very low levels of damping and an ineffective HSC adjuster

yea an RC2 would be sweet if it fit in a 38! I’ll probably throw a face shim in the vvc and see how it does

 

[ChrisRobin]

Speaking of VVC... is there room for tuning in the new 2021 DHX2 and X2 shocks since they also have it?

 

[buckoW]

Speaking of VVC... is there room for tuning in the new 2021 DHX2 and X2 shocks since they also have it?

Loads of room on the piston head bolt for shims and tuning. I have tried a dozen or so tunes on those shocks.

 

[englertracing]

Loads of room on the piston head bolt for shims and tuning. I have tried a dozen or so tunes on those shocks.

Are you vaccum bleeding these?
Hand bleeding them is... horrible....
I've machined up syringe adapters for the ifp and the bleed port. Still horrible. I think I've got a fix though. Going to machine a bleed adapter that replaces the lsc adjuster

 

[ChrisRobin]

Loads of room on the piston head bolt for shims and tuning. I have tried a dozen or so tunes on those shocks.

Excellent. Good to know! Thx

 

[buckoW]

Are you vaccum bleeding these?
Hand bleeding them is... horrible....
I've machined up syringe adapters for the ifp and the bleed port. Still horrible. I think I've got a fix though. Going to machine a bleed adapter that replaces the lsc adjuster

Yes, vacuum on a small Andreani machine.

 

[englertracing]

Yes, vacuum on a small Andreani machine.

I meant the lsr adjuster*
I think/hope I can hand bleed it smoothly with that addition.

 

[buckoW]

I meant the lsr adjuster*
I think/hope I can hand bleed it smoothly with that addition.

It should work like that.

I have done the old X2 by hand through the compression adjuster with good results if patient.

 

[englertracing]

The old x2 bleeds just fine when I hook up to the bleed port.

The new x2 takes at least 5x as long for some reason.

 

[birdman2447]

The old x2 bleeds just fine when I hook up to the bleed port.

The new x2 takes at least 5x as long for some reason.

not to change the topic too much, but are you familiar with the Zeb? If so how is the damper in say a Zeb Ultimate.

thanks!

 

[Kanye West]

So I found an old RC2 cartridge that came out of a Fox 36 (29/170). I have a Fox 38 (29/170). This VVC business is far from impressive and I'm trying to decide what's less of a science project.

The footnut appears compatible. The top cap threads are different though. Anyone ever made an adapter for something like this? ID/OD threads, M_ _ x 1.0, M _ _ x 1.0, and a shoulder with a couple spanner pin holes maybe.

 

[Flo33]

So I found an old RC2 cartridge that came out of a Fox 36 (29/170). I have a Fox 38 (29/170). This VVC business is far from impressive and I'm trying to decide what's less of a science project.

The footnut appears compatible. The top cap threads are different though. Anyone ever made an adapter for something like this? ID/OD threads, M_ _ x 1.0, M _ _ x 1.0, and a shoulder with a couple spanner pin holes maybe.

The best guess would be Steve I think.

 

[Kanye West]

The best guess would be Steve I think.

As in Vorsprung Steve?

 

[Flo33]

As in Vorsprung Steve?

Yes. Shoot him an email or call him. Pretty sure he has the numbers and may even make one for you if you ask in a nice way?

 

[slimshady]

So I found an old RC2 cartridge that came out of a Fox 36 (29/170). I have a Fox 38 (29/170). This VVC business is far from impressive and I'm trying to decide what's less of a science project.

The footnut appears compatible. The top cap threads are different though. Anyone ever made an adapter for something like this? ID/OD threads, M_ _ x 1.0, M _ _ x 1.0, and a shoulder with a couple spanner pin holes maybe.

Didn't @kidwoo manage to cram a RS Charger damper inside of a Fox 40 via an adapter sleeve a few years ago?

 

[kidwoo]

Didn't @kidwoo manage to cram a RS Charger damper inside of a Fox 40 via an adapter sleeve a few years ago?

yes

the rc2 dampers are better but I wanted to see how the rebound piston setup from the boxxer worked so I could try and copy it in the rc2 cart

 

[englertracing]

So I found an old RC2 cartridge that came out of a Fox 36 (29/170). I have a Fox 38 (29/170). This VVC business is far from impressive and I'm trying to decide what's less of a science project.

The footnut appears compatible. The top cap threads are different though. Anyone ever made an adapter for something like this? ID/OD threads, M_ _ x 1.0, M _ _ x 1.0, and a shoulder with a couple spanner pin holes maybe.

I think I remember measuring the threads at 0.8mm. And since my lathe only does 0.75 and 1 I set It to 32tpi which is 0.794 in metric... this was for an air cap, 99.98% sure the damper side is the same.

 

[Kanye West]

yes

the rc2 dampers are better but I wanted to see how the rebound piston setup from the boxxer worked so I could try and copy it in the rc2 cart

Who made the adapter for you? Finding someone with lathe gearing to make those threads can be tough.

 

[englertracing]

Who made the adapter for you? Finding someone with lathe gearing to make those threads can be tough.

I did it but it was an extra volume air cap not an adapter

 

[Kanye West]

I'm tempted to just hot-form the threads into a PVC coupler...not really, but it does sound easier.

 

[slimshady]

I'm tempted to just hot-form the threads into a PVC coupler...not really, but it does sound easier.

Is there enough space between the inner threads of the stanchion and the cartridge ones? I'm thinking you might end up with a paper thin sleeve.

 

[toodles]

I think I remember measuring the threads at 0.8mm. And since my lathe only does 0.75

Close enough...

 

[englertracing]

Close enough...

View attachment 178273

No just a hadley hubs 4 pin spanner

 

[Kanye West]

Is there enough space between the inner threads of the stanchion and the cartridge ones? I'm thinking you might end up with a paper thin sleeve.

TBD. Will definitely be thin. Might have to turn down the RC2 threads and bore out an extra VVC top cap and just use a retention screw or something if there's not enough wall.

 

[Flo33]

Who made the adapter for you? Finding someone with lathe gearing to make those threads can be tough.

Steve @ Vorsprung. There are pics here somewhere.