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stoney

stoney

Part of the unwashed, middle-American horde
Jul 26, 2006
22,002
7,886
Colorado
Figured it out. This is where I'm at this am...



I might just stop socializing with my general area and just work on my house or spend more time studying. There is nothing that can be gained by interacting with a local population that voted 60/40 (r). I think it's finally time to force Wifey back onto the bike, climbing wall, and skis. We don't need local people; I knew we should have just moved to Golden from the get-go.
 
stevew

stevew

resident influencer
Sep 21, 2001
41,165
10,104
stoney said:
Figured it out. This is where I'm at this am...



I might just stop socializing with my general area and just work on my house or spend more time studying. There is nothing that can be gained by interacting with a local population that voted 60/40 (r). I think it's finally time to force Wifey back onto the bike, climbing wall, and skis. We don't need local people; I knew we should have just moved to Golden from the get-go.
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so you are not feeling this sign at all

20201104_104113.jpg
 
Full Trucker

Full Trucker

Frikkin newb!!!
Feb 26, 2003
11,139
8,780
Exit, CO
stoney said:
I'd say the latter more than anything, actually. As metro encroaches into the plains, the beliefs of those who live in metro, come with them. The conflicts are much greater on the eastern side of the Front Range than Western slope. The Western Slope think we're all baby killers trying to take their guns.
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Not sure what you mean by "the latter more than anything" ?

But how I understand your "As metro encroaches into the plains..." comment is what I am talking about... my general assumption is that a Dem government may be more skewed to policy that benefits urban needs i.e. the beliefs of those who live in the metro. And I don't believe the "beliefs of those who live in the metro" should dictate policy for rural people, particularly when it comes to property rights concerns as I understand them. As such, I am hopeful that said Dem government would factor in the needs of the rural ranchers and farmers and not just blanket-ly enact policy that fucks them, even if may be in line with "the beliefs of those who live in the metro" because honestly fuck your housing development. And also, while the ranchers/farmers adjacent to the Front Range metro areas might be willing bend to the whims of the Dazzling Liberal Urbanites, the ranchers/farmers in the high country (not just Western Slope) would be pretty pissed if they lost rights to things they depended on for a living. But hey... I'm no science computer and don't purport to know all the finer details and intertwined ramifications of this type of legislative nonsense. I'm pretty suspect of any layperson who would claim to.

So yeah, we'll see.
 
canadmos

canadmos

Cake Tease
May 29, 2011
21,987
21,520
Canaderp
Can't we all just get along?

I have friends who have differing political views than myself and don't agree with them on many points. So naturally, we just don't talk about that stuff.
 
Full Trucker

Full Trucker

Frikkin newb!!!
Feb 26, 2003
11,139
8,780
Exit, CO
canadmos said:
Can't we all just get along?

I have friends who have differing political views than myself and don't agree with them on many points. So naturally, we just don't talk about that stuff.
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Honestly? It depends. Actual political views that are different? Sure. But differing moral views that have been politicized? No, I'm not going to be friends with or get along with racists, misogynists, bigots, etc. But I wasn't going to do that before the current administration was put in office either.

Edit to add: the problem I am grappling with is that right now I pretty much mentally equate "support of Trump" to "this person is a fucking racist/bigot/misogynist/etc." or at least complicit in those things. Because how the FUCK could a person morally green-light support of a person who is clearly all of those things? What political issue is SO FUCKING IMPORTANT TO YOU that you'll turn a blind eye to a bunch of morally fucking wrong shit?
 
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jonKranked

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
88,822
27,042
media blackout
Full Trucker said:
Edit to add: the problem I am grappling with is that right now I pretty much mentally equate "support of Trump" to "this person is a fucking racist/bigot/misogynist/etc." or at least complicit in those things. Because how the FUCK could a person morally green-light support of a person who is clearly all of those things? What political issue is SO FUCKING IMPORTANT TO YOU that you'll turn a blind eye to a bunch of morally fucking wrong shit?
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as i stated in pawn, this is probably the most disappointing aspect of all this.
 
slimshady

slimshady

¡Mira, una ardilla!
Dec 20, 2007
5,728
3,578
A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away...
Excuse me for asking what you guys as insiders might consider obvious, but given the elitist nature of the electoral college, I believe it's a possible situation.

An elector for say, the Republicans, can change her/his vote and go for the Democrats? Or whenever a candidate wins the state all of its electors' votes get secured for him/her?
 
Pesqueeb

Pesqueeb

bicycle in airplane hangar
Feb 2, 2007
41,827
19,155
Riding the baggage carousel.
stevew said:
so you are not feeling this sign at all

View attachment 151769
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“From whence shall we expect the approach of danger? Shall some trans-Atlantic military giant step the earth and crush us at a blow? Never. All the armies of Europe and Asia...could not by force take a drink from the Ohio River or make a track on the Blue Ridge in the trial of a thousand years. No, if destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of free men we will live forever or die by suicide.”

― Also, Abraham Lincoln
 
Pesqueeb

Pesqueeb

bicycle in airplane hangar
Feb 2, 2007
41,827
19,155
Riding the baggage carousel.
slimshady said:
Excuse me for asking what you guys as insiders might consider obvious, but given the elitist nature of the electoral college, I believe it's a possible situation.

An elector for say, the Republicans, can change her/his vote and go for the Democrats? Or whenever a candidate wins the state all of its electors' votes get secured for him/her?
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In theory, yes this is possible. It's known as "faithless electors". In some states this is actually illegal. In others, it may be being actively encouraged as I type this.

IMO, this is as fucked up as the electoral college itself, and is institutionalized voter suppression at work.
 
slimshady

slimshady

¡Mira, una ardilla!
Dec 20, 2007
5,728
3,578
A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away...
Pesqueeb said:
“From whence shall we expect the approach of danger? Shall some trans-Atlantic military giant step the earth and crush us at a blow? Never. All the armies of Europe and Asia...could not by force take a drink from the Ohio River or make a track on the Blue Ridge in the trial of a thousand years. No, if destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of free men we will live forever or die by suicide.”

― Also, Abraham Lincoln
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This resonated heavily with the infamous quote "We have always been at war with Eurasia" from George Orwell's 1984...
 
Adventurous

Adventurous

Starshine Bro
Mar 19, 2014
10,855
9,895
Crawlorado
Full Trucker said:
Honestly? It depends. Actual political views that are different? Sure. But differing moral views that have been politicized? No, I'm not going to be friends with or get along with racists, misogynists, bigots, etc. But I wasn't going to do that before the current administration was put in office either.

Edit to add: the problem I am grappling with is that right now I pretty much mentally equate "support of Trump" to "this person is a fucking racist/bigot/misogynist/etc." or at least complicit in those things. Because how the FUCK could a person morally green-light support of a person who is clearly all of those things? What political issue is SO FUCKING IMPORTANT TO YOU that you'll turn a blind eye to a bunch of morally fucking wrong shit?
Click to expand...
This. 100%.

I can understand holding different values and viewpoints. I can also understand how there may be different paths leading towards the same goal.

What I can't understand is half of the country supporting a reprehensible individual and party that have demonstrated outward contempt for marginalized groups, the LGBTQ community, minorities, even basic human empathy. They push a message of hatred and exclusion, often to the detriment to their own. They are led by someone who has no demonstrated leadership skills, acumen in anything really, displays an offensive resistance to logic and science, and is generally just an embarrassment to the United States, the fragile idea of democracy, and humanity as a whole.
 
slimshady

slimshady

¡Mira, una ardilla!
Dec 20, 2007
5,728
3,578
A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away...
Adventurous said:
What I can't understand is half of the country supporting a reprehensible individual and party that have demonstrated outward contempt for marginalized groups, the LGBTQ community, minorities, even basic human empathy. They push a message of hatred and exclusion, often to the detriment to their own. They are led by someone who has no demonstrated leadership skills, acumen in anything really, displays an offensive resistance to logic and science, and is generally just an embarrassment to the United States, the fragile idea of democracy, and humanity as a whole.
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The same happened down here -with obvious local variations- and in Brazil. Declassed, impovered people, speaking and taking the streets in defense of the wealthy ones, feeling part of a holy crusade to "save private propierty, the family and the true core values". Religions might have been necessary at the dawns of humanity, but today they are massive retrograde force.
 
JohnE

JohnE

filthy rascist
May 13, 2005
13,550
2,180
Front Range, dude...
6thElement said:
This. This isn't good even if Biden wins.

Me last night :/
Me this morning :/ :/

Not quite sure how people think you can have a fully functioning economy when the federal government is trying to ignore a pandemic. Similarly for the remainder of my lifespan I like having a vaguely functioning planet.
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Not sure how a fully functioning economy is going to matter when everyone is dead because the government ignored a pandemic...
 
stoney

stoney

Part of the unwashed, middle-American horde
Jul 26, 2006
22,002
7,886
Colorado
Full Trucker said:
Not sure what you mean by "the latter more than anything" ?

But how I understand your "As metro encroaches into the plains..." comment is what I am talking about... my general assumption is that a Dem government may be more skewed to policy that benefits urban needs i.e. the beliefs of those who live in the metro. And I don't believe the "beliefs of those who live in the metro" should dictate policy for rural people, particularly when it comes to property rights concerns as I understand them. As such, I am hopeful that said Dem government would factor in the needs of the rural ranchers and farmers and not just blanket-ly enact policy that fucks them, even if may be in line with "the beliefs of those who live in the metro" because honestly fuck your housing development. And also, while the ranchers/farmers adjacent to the Front Range metro areas might be willing bend to the whims of the Dazzling Liberal Urbanites, the ranchers/farmers in the high country (not just Western Slope) would be pretty pissed if they lost rights to things they depended on for a living. But hey... I'm no science computer and don't purport to know all the finer details and intertwined ramifications of this type of legislative nonsense. I'm pretty suspect of any layperson who would claim to.

So yeah, we'll see.
Click to expand...
More about beliefs of the population as it expands. Think about a pebble dropped into a puddle, where the pebble is the new, higher income/wealth population moving to the region. As that group comes into the center of the urban area, the rest of the population gets pushed out. In the case of the plains, you see the expansion of Aurora and Parker in the south, Thornton, Brighton, Stapleton, etc in the north. On top of the populations getting pushed out, you have the younger immigrating population that is coming into high* cost Denver-metro, wanting to buy homes also looking at the outer rings of the metro for lower cost options. As those areas expand out, a couple things happen:
1. They bring non-rural moral beliefs with them. Even suburban conservatives look pretty liberal compared to a small town conservatives.
2. Non-homogeneous populations are pushed farther out, into the previously homogeneous rural areas.
3. Their voting populations start to incorporate the two above populations who might have other beliefs re: things as simple as education and municipal maintenance, both of which involve taxes.

Look at regional gentrification, but now expand it on a 75 mile radius. Take that half that circle effectively can't expand (mtns) and all the pressure mentioned above only has one way to expand easily - east into the rural plains.

It's not necessarily that the government is doing things for the metro area only. It's that the metro area is expanding into the rural areas bringing the metro-area beliefs (yes that's a big paint stroke) with them.
 
Full Trucker

Full Trucker

Frikkin newb!!!
Feb 26, 2003
11,139
8,780
Exit, CO
stoney said:
More about beliefs of the population as it expands. Think about a pebble dropped into a puddle, where the pebble is the new, higher income/wealth population moving to the region. As that group comes into the center of the urban area, the rest of the population gets pushed out. In the case of the plains, you see the expansion of Aurora and Parker in the south, Thornton, Brighton, Stapleton, etc in the north. On top of the populations getting pushed out, you have the younger immigrating population that is coming into high* cost Denver-metro, wanting to buy homes also looking at the outer rings of the metro for lower cost options. As those areas expand out, a couple things happen:
1. They bring non-rural moral beliefs with them. Even suburban conservatives look pretty liberal compared to a small town conservatives.
2. Non-homogeneous populations are pushed farther out, into the previously homogeneous rural areas.
3. Their voting populations start to incorporate the two above populations who might have other beliefs re: things as simple as education and municipal maintenance, both of which involve taxes.

Look at regional gentrification, but now expand it on a 75 mile radius. Take that half that circle effectively can't expand (mtns) and all the pressure mentioned above only has one way to expand easily - east into the rural plains.

It's not necessarily that the government is doing things for the metro area only. It's that the metro area is expanding into the rural areas bringing the metro-area beliefs (yes that's a big paint stroke) with them.
Click to expand...
  1. I understand what you're trying to say.
  2. I don't get the sense that you're understanding what I am saying.
  3. Which is why I'm concernedª about a Dem governance of our state essentially failing our urban ranchers and farmers... because people are basing all their decisions with a metro-centric view.
ª Not hugely concerned, mind you. At least not on the state level when we have a split in the CO senate/house/whatever. Mostly what I am trying to do is understand why a rancher or farmer would be wary of Teh Librul Eleets coming in a fucking up their livelihood. And seeing a point of view driven from a largely metro-centric/urban POV kinda helps me see why there might be wariness from these types of voters. It's not all them thinking that us city-slickers are baby-killers and gun-takers, I don't think. Writing it all off as that is missing the forest for the trees, I think there's legit issues.
 
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Montana rider

Montana rider

Tom Sawyer
Mar 14, 2005
1,944
2,610
All the "blue" politicians got crushed in the 406 but "teh Devil's cabbage" is now* legal...

www.bozemandailychronicle.com

Recreational marijuana initiatives pass in Montana

Montanans have voted to legalize recreational marijuana.
www.bozemandailychronicle.com www.bozemandailychronicle.com

*as of 10/1/2021

I fear anti-mask Drumpf supporters are going to make Covid (& economic) recovery more deadly and protracted than it should be...
 
rideit

rideit

Bob the Builder
Aug 24, 2004
24,698
12,490
In the cleavage of the Tetons
Montana rider said:
All the "blue" politicians got crushed in the 406 but "teh Devil's cabbage" is now* legal...

www.bozemandailychronicle.com

Recreational marijuana initiatives pass in Montana

Montanans have voted to legalize recreational marijuana.
www.bozemandailychronicle.com www.bozemandailychronicle.com

*as of 10/1/2021

I fear anti-mask Drumpf supporters are going to make Covid (& economic) recovery more deadly and protracted than it should be...
Click to expand...
Let’s go, rec shop in West Yellowstoned!
(yeah, fat chance, so close to the park)
 
CrabJoe StretchPants

CrabJoe StretchPants

Reincarnated Crab Walking Head Spinning Bruce Dick
Nov 30, 2003
14,163
2,485
Groton, MA
I'll have to find out about Sunday. I'm definitely riding Saturday with a buddy and his neighbor. Might be able to sweet talk my way into both days though. And by sweet talk, I mean saying I'm riding both days.
 
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