6 Pack and the Moment...

The Toninator · May 20, 2005

what bikes?

aidanwray · May 20, 2005

ellsworth moment or turner 6 pack by the looks of it....

the turner seems like a burlier alternative to the ellsworth, id probably go for the turner as it seems that stronger.
iirc, the moment is a lighter frame though.

theyre both nice bikes, but you could defo built the moment into a far lighter build than the turner

JRogers · May 20, 2005

Moment is lighter and meant, I think, for a bit less abuse. Both bikes are good performers, no doubt.

I'd get the Turner simply because of Ellsworth's sketchy reputation. Search around here and you'll find the stories. Turner is a stand-up business run by a competent bunch of people...by many accounts, Ellsworth....not so much...

syadasti · May 20, 2005

genpowell71 said:
Ok boys and girls. I just spent a week over in MTBR looking at the differences between the 2 above mentioned bikes. All I got was about 3 honest evaluations of them and the rest were a bunch of whiney little biatches. SOOO...

Which one is better and why? And please dont waste the "Their warranty sucks" argument on me, its been beat to death.

Don't forget to check out the Enduro 150/SX - it has a more advanced frame than the 6-Pack or Moment with lots of shaped tubing, hydroform bits, forged parts, bushingless quad bearing self-aligning pivot, a stiffer rear end with a very short forged and welded one piece swinglink, lower center of gravity, adjustable geometry via shock shuttles, and lower leverage ratio (2.5" shock stroke vs 2.25" on the Moment and Six-pack). I used to ride a Moment and loved it - its probably the best frame Ellsworth makes, but its just not as well designed as the new Enduro frame :drool:

mobius · May 20, 2005

I'd say the turner or as suggested above the enduro or checkout santa cruz's offerings be one of the first to get on a nomad you'd be a piamp. Or the blur LT

kicknitLivE · May 21, 2005

Give us some details.. one is not inherently better than the other. If it is your only bike, get the 6-pack with the DHX. If its your XC bike get the moment with an RP3. When I only had one bike it was the Banshee Chaparral, similar to the 6-pack, and it rocked for everything from 12 ft drops at whistler to 25 mile epics.

But FOR CRYING OUT LOUD, dont get a bike spec'd with a 5th El AIR!!! Our shop had to purchase "loner" Fox shocks since so many 5ths crapped out.

syadasti · May 21, 2005

genpowell71 said:
I owned a Stumpjumper and I wont own another specialized as long as I can bike. I had nothing but problems with them and the dealer.

Thats a bit silly really - people have had problems with all brands, even occasionally Turner and Ellsworth is notorious for it. Specialized warranty service is known for being great, as is Turner's. Try a different dealer - its not too hard to find one.

As far as Ellsworth goes, my friend has(had?, haven't spoken with him in awhile) an Ellsworth Truth and broke 2-3 of them only within a few seasons of XC/trail riding (non-abusive) but he didn't have a problem how he was treated in warranty service and thought the bikes were worth it even though he was breaking them often :dead:

I personally would have moved on and sold my frame after the second breakage :blah:

syadasti · May 22, 2005

genpowell71 said:
Not to sound like a jerk or anything, but until you know the whole story behind it, dont rush to judge the silliness level.

And I've read all the info about Tony Ellsworth and his "shoddy" business practices. Like it was said earlier, sounds and reads to me lie this "Tony-hate" is led by a few and followed by alot. I like to believe that people mae mistakes and then they try to fix the problem. I read his statement on MTBR and it sounds like he's trying to fix his issues.

Well then you would be a hypocrite to say those people who have had problems with Ellsworth don't count and then turn around and say Specialized sucks just cause you had an issue with them. Specialized is known for having great products and great service. Even the best companies can make mistakes - nobody is perfect...

MikeD · May 22, 2005

Given that you don't consider the durability or warranty issues connected to Ellsworth to be relevant (my personal experience only goes so far as seeing Dog Welder's Joker brought back for warranty in a shoebox after half a DH run, but that's just one frame...still, I'll never buy an Ellsworth), sounds like it's time for you to consider the respective geometries and weights and make a decision yourself.

You're not stupid enough to be asking a question like "which is better" and expect a real answer....c'mon...you're better than that. You know how you're going to build it and ride it, and you know how big you are and what kind of geometry you like.

Me? I'd get a six-pack, but you know that already. Still, it's the only real way to answer your question. Neither is inherently 'better;' I can only tell you what I would do.

MD

Changleen · May 22, 2005

syadasti said:
Don't forget to check out the Enduro 150/SX

Hmm, That looks like Rimu hardwood flooring. I didn't know you could get that in NJ.

Nice Bike, Very similar to my housemates. He's still running 3 rings though (looser) and has hope mono-minis on his.

syadasti · May 22, 2005

Changleen said:
Hmm, That looks like Rimu hardwood flooring. I didn't know you could get that in NJ.

Nice Bike, Very similar to my housemates. He's still running 3 rings though (looser) and has hope mono-minis on his.

Yes and I've owned the Moment since August and its for sale, but the general here thinks the Ellsworth is better :blah:

The only thing I don't like about the Enduro is that the lettering on the DT scratches off easily. Since it started to rub off, I rubbed it off so it now says Special on both sides instead of Specialized

smedford · May 22, 2005

Everyone thinks the bike they ride is the best. Myself, I would not buy a specialized, I think they are gimmicky. I vote for the Turner. Solid design, good company, they will take care of you if there are problems.

syadasti · May 22, 2005

smedford said:
Everyone thinks the bike they ride is the best. Myself, I would not buy a specialized, I think they are gimmicky. I vote for the Turner. Solid design, good company, they will take care of you if there are problems.

Thats not the case with me, I sometimes change bikes multiple times a season and always believe there will be something better. Its hard to get a real feel for a bike without owning one and I've owned bikes from all sorts of brands (16 different brands since 1989) and don't believe in brand loyalty as quality and design varies year to year as companies are never static.

I didn't like the 97 Enduro that much which was my first FS bike - the bike was too progressive with an air shock. I didn't like my 01 Schwinn Rocket 88 Disc as it wasn't active enough on the small stuff. I didn't like my 02 Balfa 2step as the build quality and customer service was poor. My 02.5 Ironhorse Hollowpoint had a poor hanger design and the rear end was flexy. My 03 Ironhorse SGS Team had lots of play and a flexy rear end. My Cortina Triton DS 4130 hardtails had poor chainline and were too slack...

Back to the point - I can honestly say the Specialized is a better engineered frame than the Turner or Ellsworth because it has got all sorts of amazingly well thought out details including forged parts all around (stronger than CNC'd), hydroformed frame members, shaped tubing, quad bearings, lower center of gravity, and a more compact, stiffer rear-end with a lower leverage ratio compared to a standard traditional fsr walking beam frame with a few CNC'd pieces). Small builders like Ellsworth and Turner can't afford the R&D budgets a big player like Specialized can, plus the engineer who designed the new Enduro even has riding skills and experience to put together a better design.

BMXman · May 22, 2005

I would go with the Turner...I have personally seen 5 broken Ellsworths in the last 2 years...so riding one wouldn't make me as comfortable as a Turner...D

binary visions · May 23, 2005

genpowell, my Ellsworth "experience" is only a virtual one. I've been posting on MTBR for several years (I don't even remember how long), and Ridemonkey for the past few. However, in that time, I've seen more problems with Ellsworth bikes than I've seen with any other single bike manufacturer.

Sure, people generally only post their bad experiences vs. saying "Hey, my bike is still working fine!"

Sure, one happy customer will tell five friends, and one angry customer will tell five hundred.

However, given the quantity of bikes that Ellsworth makes and sells, the sheer amount of broken bikes and stories about horrible C.S. has scared me off Ellsworth forever. Broken Truths, Jokers, Dares, Ids, and bad C.S. stories to match. I believe it's jdcamb on here who recently broke his second Ellsworth, though he's had good C.S.

Tony seems to follow the business practice that when your bike is still in current production, you get a warrenty replacement. When your bike changes in design (which happens every few years), it's no longer a replacement, it's an upgrade - and now you have to pay.

Anyhow. I know you're trying to be fair in looking for specific, personal experiences and direct contact with people who have had problems, but there it is. Good luck in your decision!

Boomer-61 · May 25, 2005

I labored over the same issues as you. I decided to go with the Id for various reasons. I have always liked the simplicity of the Ellsworth suspension design. Both bikes have a similar design and are manafactured here in the US. I've seen both bikes at DH races and appreciated the craftmanship up close. I don't know who came up with the design first but I like the Ellsworth. It seems dated compared to all the VPP designs out there but that tells me it is a good design that has and still does work well. In my research and dealings with Ellsworth on the phone and email they have been up to par. The reason I finally went with the Ellsworth was weight. They build a high quality frame that weighs less than the competition. If you go one direction, down, weight is of very little consequence. If you spend the day on your bike weight makes a big difference. I don't like being made to suffer because I'm hauling around 8 more pounds than my ride buddies. I'm ten years older than the next youngest guy and I need all the help I can get. I don't know the weight difference between the Moment and the 6-pack, it may be a wash. It's a lot of cash to drop and I know you want to make the best choice. After you weigh all of the facts I think it will come down to a gut decision. The good thing is both frames will hold their value. So no matter which one you go with if you don't like it you can sell it for a minimal loss.

BMXman · May 26, 2005

I would have to disagree with the Ellsworth holding their value statement...I do a lot of dealing/selling on-line, Ebay etc...and you can get Ellsworths for about half of the retail price pretty much any day of the week...D

I LIKE BIKES · May 27, 2005

I would go with the moment just because its lighter and because i am a weight weenie. But on the other hand i really like the 6-pack. Thats a tough decision...good luck!

6 Pack and the Moment...

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