[General Lee]

I'm not weighing in on the usefulness of 650b because I've never ridden it or paid much attention to the argument but you can be sure there is a major transition coming quick.

At the OEM 'show' in Taichung it was no secret that wheel, tire, and frame manufacturers were going pretty full speed in that direction. And more than a few PM's mentioned that anyone not having a solid 650b design was going to be off the back. Without naming the specific companies there is plenty of truth to the rumor that 26" is being relegated to DH and sub$800 XC, the rest is 650b and 29.

I'm a fan of change though. It's meeting some initial resistance for sure, but there's a long list of successful and indispensable MTB products that were written off at first. There are also some that fell flat on their face (24" wheels, 3" tires, the DH hardtail....). A positive sign, at least, is that wheel, frame, and tire manufacturers for the most part seem on the same page so at least in theory the transition should be smooth enough....

Personally I'm a fan of manufacturers that are designing the choice into their respective models. I'll use Banshee as an example since i was just at their factory, but they have several bikes with multiple dropout options that can be swapped out relatively cheaply (135qr, 142x12, 150x12; 26, 650b, 29) without any change to the frame. Whether this truly optimizes a design around a single wheel size is a matter to be debated later, but for now it certainly holds great appeal to those of us unconvinced or uncommited.

Whether or not quality wheel options will be available at all levels remains to be seen....

 

[kidwoo]

Choice is fine but not at the exclusion of things that mostly stay in the same shape in corners.......(IE: not choice)

This whole '26" wheels relegated to 800 dollar bikes' claim is utter bullshlt and shows just how clueless many people in the bike industry really are. It's a chance to make people buy things under the name of 'revolution' when they don't really need a new bike. It's marketing at its finest. If strong wheel sizes stay in lineups in addition to circus bikes, that's one thing. But some of us corner on trail bikes too. Calling 26" wheels obsolete is a horrible horrible mistake to anyone who's ever appreciated well tracking bicycles. It's a big middle finger to a big part of the customer base who know's their shlt rather than needing to be told their shlt.

 

[Sonic Reducer]

some of the new standards are welcomed and very relevant, filling a void or updating where the standards were lacking or there was disarray. IS disc mount, ISCG, 1.5 head tube, tapered head tube, 142x12, 15 & 20mm thru axle forks, awesome! 5 new wheel sizes, 23 extra gears, 100 new proprietary acronyms, who gives a ****.

 

[iRider]

It's a big middle finger to a big part of the customer base who know's their shlt rather than needing to be told their shlt.

As right as your statement is, I highly doubt the 'big part of the customers' part. Most customers read MBA or any other mag and buy whatever they hype. 29 went from niche to mainstream after the big magazines jumped on board.
Unfortunately people that know their sh!t seem to be rare.

650B is here to stay now that even the last 26" supporting mag (DIRT) jumped ship and hypes 29 and 650 bikes.

 

[yesimaddicted]

i always come to RM for a good get away from germans, they just dont know how to talk s*** lie americans do.

 

[chillindrdude]

I wished there was a readily accessible and extensive demo fleet on the east coast so that i could personally ride different shocks, suspension designs, geometry, and wheel sizes to decide a configuration that suits my riding style/terrain the best. I was slow to warm up to 29rs but now a believer for xc/am applications with the right geometry. 650b is interesting because its hyped to be a nice balance between the advantages of 29 and 26. But i would want to try it for myself before i adopt or shun it.

 

[jonKranked]

As far as I'm concerned the "bike industry" can make whatever preposterous wheel sizes they want. But don't force people into using them.

 

[Sandwich]

The only thing worse than hearing MTBR homers talk about 29ers is RM DHers talking about 26ers.

 

[Sandwich]

Rock Jesus will be your salvation:
http://mbaction.com/Mobile/News/Aaron_Gwin_Lets_A_Secret_Slip_At_SoCal_CycleFest_5916.aspx

Be scared.
http://www.bike24.com/p243100.html

 

[jonKranked]

The thread is now full circle

Empty beer, mountain bike action, and Brian Lopes

 

[jackalope]

Be scared.
http://www.bike24.com/p243100.html

^^

Damn it, I thought that second link was going to be about the industry switching back to 24" wheels...

 

[Tomasis]

The only thing worse than hearing MTBR homers talk about 29ers is RM DHers talking about 26ers.

Word

Actually, Im starting consider 650b very recently after read this thread. Luckily, I need rebuild Wheels and buy new tires for new Rune so I will look out for options so I can upgrade to affordable tires a few year later when RMers are upgrading to 650b because WC pros running them. I see it in crystal ball

 

[kidwoo]

The only thing worse than hearing MTBR homers talk about 29ers is RM DHers talking about 26ers.

Word

You two need me to selectively juxtapose some pictures so you can tell the difference?

 

[Cant Climb]

^^

Damn it, I thought that second link was going to be about the industry switching back to 24" wheels...

24's were super fun.

 

[Cant Climb]

We'll all be on 650B and inexpensive carbon bikes in 10 years. This has been my prediction for awhile now....

 

[Sandwich]

flashy colors and no dirt on either?

 

[General Lee]

Rock Jesus will be your salvation:
http://mbaction.com/Mobile/News/Aaron_Gwin_Lets_A_Secret_Slip_At_SoCal_CycleFest_5916.aspx

Be scared.
http://www.bike24.com/p243100.html

I'll actually be a little surprised if 2013 World Champs in RSA isn't won by someone on 650b

 

[jonKranked]

We'll all be on 650B and inexpensive carbon bikes in 10 years. This has been my prediction for awhile now....

You're wrong in the inexpensive part. do you really expect bike companies to pass the savings along to the consumer as carbon production prices decrease?

 

[dump]

The thing about 29er and now 650B that is grating is the proselytizing and hype. It is not being positioned objectively as another option in the arsenal, rather the word is, "you're going to be left behind if you don't get on board. What you love and hold dear will be relegated to the discount bin, so you really have no choice."

 

[Sandwich]

We'll all be on 650B and inexpensive carbon bikes in 10 years. This has been my prediction for awhile now....

i think the chinese carbon frame will revolutionize the industry, especially as they figure out geometry and [yikes] suspension. If they realized what people pay for a carbon dw-link frame, they would start turning out duplicates for $750 a pop shipped to your door, and you couldn't tell the difference until it disintegrated and gave you lead poisoning and unleashed longhorn beetles into your trees.

It amazes me that people can still get away with selling 29er carbon hardtails for six times the price as something damned similar coming out of taiwan.

 

[Sandwich]

The thing about 29er and now 650B that is grating is the proselytizing and hype. It is not being positioned objectively as another option in the arsenal, rather the word is, "you're going to be left behind if you don't get on board. What you love and hold dear will be relegated to the discount bin, so you really have no choice."

I just don't get the animosity. 650b is just a little better at some things, and not much worse at most other things. 29er was similar but a bit more extreme. Most people who rag on big wheels haven't ridden one, or haven't ridden a good one (i'm looking at you, 18" stays). I hope that the final evolution is different size wheels for different sized riders.

It's not going to steal your lunch.

 

[jonKranked]

Here's another way to think of things:

Let's assume this all does come to pass, and high end 26" wheels and tires go extinct. We would be thankful most production moved overseas. Courtesy of China's questionable business ethics, all we would need to do is send them a minion and some money (hello kickstarter) and say "make this". Then the only remaining problem is finding someone with enough space to take delivery of a freight container full of tires.

 

[Cant Climb]

It amazes me that people can still get away with selling 29er carbon hardtails for six times the price as something damned similar coming out of taiwan.

Yup. Some super "high end" euro cabon road frames are made for next to nothing cost wise. Someone will leverage the savings.

 

[kidwoo]

I just don't get the animosity. 650b is just a little better at some things, and not much worse at most other things. 29er was similar but a bit more extreme. Most people who rag on big wheels haven't ridden one, or haven't ridden a good one (i'm looking at you, 18" stays). I hope that the final evolution is different size wheels for different sized riders.

It's not going to steal your lunch.

I was pleasantly surprised in a lot of ways by this bike.

http://reviews.mtbr.com/author/kevin-bazar
(and no did you really think I was going to let pictures out of me riding it?)


You know what I disliked most about it?


The big wheels.

Not the geometry, not the suspension.

The big, flexy flexy laterally loading and rebounding big flexy wheels. The frame suffered a bit too having the axle further out than it needed to be. And that's with crappy tires that don't even hold in corners.

You may not get the animosity but some of us already feel they need to go out of their way to build stiff 26" trail bike wheels that weigh too much..........just to get them stiff. So when bike companies start letting the consumer know what the consumer needs to think because they're going there regardless, and exclusively.........that's incredibly obtuse.

I also genuinely think it won't really happen anyway. There will be companies making burly 26" trail bikes for a loooooong time.

 

[Cant Climb]

I'll actually be a little surprised if 2013 World Champs in RSA isn't won by someone on 650b

I was thinking Ft. William would be a fair advantage on 650B.

 

[OGRipper]

I just don't get the animosity. 650b is just a little better at some things, and not much worse at most other things. 29er was similar but a bit more extreme. Most people who rag on big wheels haven't ridden one, or haven't ridden a good one (i'm looking at you, 18" stays). I hope that the final evolution is different size wheels for different sized riders.

It's not going to steal your lunch.

Must spread, but in any case, quoted for truth.

Nobody is going to force you to ride bigger wheels.

I don't envy the LBS that needs to stock three sizes of wheels, tires and tubes. But this is not the biggest challenge for the LBS these days.

 

[kidwoo]

Nobody is going to force you to ride bigger wheels.

Just an 800 dollar or walmart bike. That's a quote!

 

[dump]

I just don't get the animosity. 650b is just a little better at some things, and not much worse at most other things. 29er was similar but a bit more extreme. Most people who rag on big wheels haven't ridden one, or haven't ridden a good one (i'm looking at you, 18" stays). I hope that the final evolution is different size wheels for different sized riders.

It's not going to steal your lunch.

Yes, I get that. I thought I explained my annoyance above. It comes down to how it is being positioned as the thing you can't live without, and if you choose to go with out it, you'll be sol when we stop producing what you're running. Stupid marketing, moving on.

 

[Tomasis]

I speak for me myself. For example I build Banshee Rune and Im able to run both 650b and 26" with extra dropout.

If I run high setting and 26" wheels, I'd get too low botton bracket on a particular track, then I use 650b set to clear out the issue and get 10mm increased WB. Same things happen if I add angleset to make HT more slack.

None of two options are bad, just pick one depending of track use. Another thing for me is to have Wheels ready with different tires for weather condition.

 

[Sandwich]

Here's another way to think of things:

Let's assume this all does come to pass, and high end 26" wheels and tires go extinct. We would be thankful most production moved overseas. Courtesy of China's questionable business ethics, all we would need to do is send them a minion and some money (hello kickstarter) and say "make this". Then the only remaining problem is finding someone with enough space to take delivery of a freight container full of tires.

I doubt 26 will ever go away. It might wind down, but I think you'll still get the parts you love in 26, you just won't see the fringey experimental stuff. Maxxis would be wise to make the 26" minion dhf 2.5 until the wheel itself becomes obsolete. I don't think you'll miss 26" complete bikes from Salsa or Hutchinson DH tires in 26"...and by the time that 650b becomes (if) so ubiquitous that you can't find a single 26" DH tire or rim, it's likely that you'll need a new frame anyways, and you may have finally found a 650b bike that didn't fart in your elevator.

 

[Cant Climb]

I don't envy the LBS that needs to stock three sizes of wheels, tires and tubes. But this is not the biggest challenge for the LBS these days.

huh.....?.........every LBS i walk into now is wall-to-wall 29r.

If they have 26 tires it is leftover or very low-end......

 

[Tomasis]

I dont know why some get impression that industry forces people to buy Products. It can be contrary, industry meets demand of customer. I Think the majority is non dh, dj riders unfortunately.

I dont Think rims will disappear soon, but I dont know about tires, it might happen that tire manufacturers wont like have too many Tools to produce "future nisched" Products.

 

[kidwoo]

I speak for me myself. For example I build Banshee Rune and Im able to run both 650b and 26" with extra dropout.

If I run high setting and 26" wheels, I'd get too low botton bracket on a particular track, then I use 650b set to clear out the issue and get 10mm increased WB. Same things happen if I add angleset to make HT more slack.

None of two options are bad, just pick one depending of track use. Another thing for me is to have Wheels ready with different tires for weather condition.

This is actually the one giant beautiful silver lining in all this. BB heights on good 29ers are getting lower, I have to assume the same will be happening with whatever 650b frames come up. Putting 26" wheels on those frames is going to be awesome!

 

[Tomasis]

on flat tracks yeah

 

[Sandwich]

The big, flexy flexy laterally loading and rebounding big flexy wheels. The frame suffered a bit too having the axle further out than it needed to be. And that's with crappy tires that don't even hold in corners.

I get where you're coming from, but I think it's fairly safe to say that you're an above-average rider that puts above-average strain on his components and knows with a fair amount of certainty exactly what he wants.

With that in mind, bigger wheels are undoubtedly not the right choice for you...but for the average rider, who may not be able to detect the added flex of a 24mm width rim vs. a 27, bigger wheels may give them an appreciable advantage in rolling or climbing traction, and they may be unlikely to notice the downsides. I know that personally, I can't really detect the same intricacies of my tires or wheels that you can...or I don't push my trail bike that hard or ride that way, or I'm not good enough to tell...but I can feel the small advantages wagon wheels have on other aspects of my riding. I could feel a decrease in rolling resistance when I had a 29er, and I could feel a decrease when I switched from 24 to 26 several years ago. The added flex in a 26" wheel vs. a 24" wheel is easily made up for by the decrease in rolling resistance...otherwise we'd all be on 24s, right? I think it's that same train of thought that pushed people to 29, and are now pushing people to 27.5, after they realized the limitations of 29ers.

I agree with you though, it's a wave of hype that businesses are capitalizing on, and the idea that customers no longer want an option is stupid.

 

[kidwoo]

on flat tracks yeah

Or mach stupid on the gnarliest steepest nastiest rockiest tracks.......either one.

 

[Tomasis]

none will stop you

 

[kidwoo]

I get where you're coming from, but I think it's fairly safe to say that you're an above-average rider that puts above-average strain on his components and knows with a fair amount of certainty exactly what he wants.

Just on the internet. There's nothing unique about me. The vast vast majority of people I ride with and know across the country tend to agree with pretty much everything I'm blabbing about here. I agree the majority of trail bike buyers out there came from just that, but some of those guys are real rippers and there are lots of competent downhillers who rip hard on trail bikes now that they're getting so much better. It may not be the majority but it's a big big part of who the bike industry should be listening to when it comes to knowing where to head with bike design. Because it was these guys who pushed for better treads on smaller bikes, lower bbs, longer travel, slacker headangles............pretty much everything that makes modern trail bikes so damn good. None of the ones I know are ASKING for bigger wheels.

 

[Dogboy]

...especially as they figure out geometry and [yikes] suspension...

I'm going to go ahead and say that will never happen.

 

[Tomasis]

tell those chinese who made fightjet