yt industries and others will
650b coming sooner than we think?
- Thread starter Tomasis
- Start date
I don't doubt you, but just by comparing the populations of RM vs. MTBR, MTBR right now has half the entire online community of RM (which is 1100) in their 29er forum alone (566). The hardcore trail jedi are far outnumbered by the spandex clad lefty riding weekend warriors...who like their big wheels. I suppose you could include pinkbike, but Canadians are really only half a person, and 13 year old downhillers even less than that.
I think there are lots of people out there like myself, who tried the 29er experiment, didn't love it, and settled on 650b. I would just about kill for a green flavor norco range (if I could afford it) then sell off every other bike I own.
It's very much different strokes though, as I can't stand low bottom brackets and ultra slack head angles. That doesn't work where I ride, where no amount of timing will save your pedals, and the climbs come short and steep. And I like my 90mm stem.
Quote of the day
Yes to all of this^^^^, and thank goodness a few product managers get it too. I've hated every trail bike I ever owned since I managed to get a crazy custom orange patriot as a hand-me-down from the factory team. It was low, 65 degree head angle and only 4" travel but it absolutely ripped. That was in 2003. I just picked up a Rune 2 from the guys at Banshee since I live in the neighborhood now and I haven't been this psyched to build up a bike in 3 or 4 years.
26" all the way for me. . . . for now.
**I don't believe every trail bike should be long, low, and slack. Lots of people would hate it and for good reason. The problem was that for way too long there were NO trails bikes like the ones that have come along in the past 2 years. DH angles are second nature to me, anything else feels like relearning how to ride.
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Somebody rep this man!
Have you tried to get high-end 8-speed stuff lately? Even 9-speed is getting harder to source now. Walk into the LBS and they have a full range of 10-speed cassettes in stock but only cheap 9-speed stuff. Special orders are not always possible because the distributors also don't stock the 'old' stuff anymore. WTF??? At least offer all the spare parts and wear items so I can keep my existing bikes rolling!
So much for they do not 'force' people to buy new products.
I actually think Kidwoo is the minority. Seems like most people are looking for different bikes to match their riding style. Hell most people will never get to the speed and skill level of Woo nor realized it could be a goal.
After a long break with no XC/trail bike I got a GT Zaskar 9r this year and with a wide bar and short stem it has been super fun to ride and given me a fresh perspective on XC riding.
After a long break with no XC/trail bike I got a GT Zaskar 9r this year and with a wide bar and short stem it has been super fun to ride and given me a fresh perspective on XC riding.
Sure, it was no problem to get 8spd casette and chain since I use mailorder. LBS are out of "mode" and cost 2x more.Have you tried to get high-end 8-speed stuff lately? Even 9-speed is getting harder to source now. Walk into the LBS and they have a full range of 10-speed cassettes in stock but only cheap 9-speed stuff. Special orders are not always possible because the distributors also don't stock the 'old' stuff anymore. WTF??? At least offer all the spare parts and wear items so I can keep my existing bikes rolling!
So much for they do not 'force' people to buy new products.
If you Think from Company perspective, they cannot afford to please minorities without going with losses. To stock up one million LBS in the World costs Money incl distribution and many other things.
the fittest survives, sorry man
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True, but they still don't have everything.
If you call yourself an 'industry' then you better behave like one. For most other things in the price range of a high-end bike you get spare parts for 5-10 years no problem.
Hehe. Would be nice wouldn't it?
Flexy wheels are less of a problem on these 'tweener bikes when compared to 29ers, especially with carbon wheels. Strange geometry is also less of an issue. Hell, they're close enough to 26 that many of the bikes will probably be switchable anyway.
I dunno, like I've said, not drawn to a niner but this middle ground has me curious. It probably has something to do with the fact that a bunch of my riding buddies started dropping me more often once they got bigger wheels. I can't say they are having more fun but I can definitely say they started going faster overall on the stuff we ride most often. If I can get some of that benefit and still be able to manual, jump, and otherwise throw the bike around, why not?
I dunno, like I've said, not drawn to a niner but this middle ground has me curious. It probably has something to do with the fact that a bunch of my riding buddies started dropping me more often once they got bigger wheels. I can't say they are having more fun but I can definitely say they started going faster overall on the stuff we ride most often. If I can get some of that benefit and still be able to manual, jump, and otherwise throw the bike around, why not?
So here's the thing:
650b wheels are demonstrably more fun to ride than 26" wheels.
It's not that they're much more fun compared to 26" wheels, just more fun.
This is a fact. They still pump, broadslide manual and bump-jump. In fact they do it really, really well. Just as well as a 26" wheel, in fact a little better than a 26" wheel in slow-speed technical situations. The slight increases in roll over and contact patch allow you to get rowdier, fact.
For me 29" wheels will always be ponderous and not-as-much-fun than smaller wheels, just like they'll be for tens of thousands of other riders. I like my 26" bike. I like my 650b bike more.
All "technical" arguments about flex, weight, etc. aren't relevant in reality, especially not since 26" wheels actually are dead.
All quality bikes will have through axle rear ends in a season or two, rim technology is better than ever, etc.
This is reality. You can't stop reality from being real.
650b wheels are demonstrably more fun to ride than 26" wheels.
It's not that they're much more fun compared to 26" wheels, just more fun.
This is a fact. They still pump, broadslide manual and bump-jump. In fact they do it really, really well. Just as well as a 26" wheel, in fact a little better than a 26" wheel in slow-speed technical situations. The slight increases in roll over and contact patch allow you to get rowdier, fact.
For me 29" wheels will always be ponderous and not-as-much-fun than smaller wheels, just like they'll be for tens of thousands of other riders. I like my 26" bike. I like my 650b bike more.
All "technical" arguments about flex, weight, etc. aren't relevant in reality, especially not since 26" wheels actually are dead.
All quality bikes will have through axle rear ends in a season or two, rim technology is better than ever, etc.
This is reality. You can't stop reality from being real.
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LOOOOOOOOOOOL either of you own computers? Try finding parts for your 486 or 5.125 floppy disks. Hell, I built a computer from scratch in 08 and it's difficult to find RAM for it, not to mention I can't use any of the more modern processors...and that's 4 years old.Hehe. Would be nice wouldn't it?
Knuckleslammer laughs at your theories.
NO THEY AREN'T this is the problem here, I've never been one to hate on wheel sizes, ride what ever you want, that's why the variety was there and it didn't bother me, 20, 24, 26, 29 all had their purposes and i enjoyed riding them all for different reasons, but to come out and say that 650b's are without question, more fun to ride and to put it forth as though that it is the absolute truth, is simply ridiculous and an over generalization of your own opinion and applying it as fact for everyone else.
Simply no, i'm actually astounded by these comments. I actually own a Norco Range Killer B-1, and while the grip and traction is noticeably better by a factor of maybe a 10-15% increase when climbing, it is also 10-15% less flickable in the air and on the way down, you can notice the difference in the rotational mass in the increased wheel diameter when marking sharp corners and most defiantly when trying to tweak it in the air.
In my opinion 650b is the answer for guys that like their trail bikes to feel like big cross country bikes, point it up and climp, point it down and go. Anyone that wants to have fun on the way down however still and always will prefer 26's i.e anyone that actually knows bike control.
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Yeah I'm pretty sure he's kidding. At least I hope he is. The effort of the bike industry to completely discontinue 26" sizes is blatantly saying that it's just a BS marketing plan to get people to buy all new stuff again, because parts will be unavailable to keep their >1 year old bike running.
If that happens, I'm done with bikes completely. I refuse to support that. I'll stick to my dirt bikes. That industry hasn't tried to play any games like that, even when they phased out 2-strokes. OEM parts still available for bikes that are 15 years old.
If that happens, I'm done with bikes completely. I refuse to support that. I'll stick to my dirt bikes. That industry hasn't tried to play any games like that, even when they phased out 2-strokes. OEM parts still available for bikes that are 15 years old.
Let's go crazy guys. Mickey, fire up the welder and make me a frame for a 29" front wheel and a 24" rear wheel.
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You mean 24" front and 29" rear. I mean, just look at dragsters. If you want to go fast, you should be following their design concepts.
Imagine the wheelies
Funny how fired up people get about this. I need to take my mountain biking more serious.
I was thinking the same thing, you'd think the world was on the verge of imploding....not that I disagree with either side, but seriously, it's pretty hilarious how worked up some of you are about this....and I'm a guy that loves riding his 26" reign on pretty rowdy terrain. I've also ridden a Erickson ti 650b hardtail and it was really good, and I've ridden a few 29'ers I liked. While I enjoy the fast handling nature of 26" wheels, my impression was that 650b was a lot better and more fun than any 29'er, and while it had improved rolling characteristics in rough stuff and whatnot it didn't really feel that much different than a 26" wheel. But hey, whatever, get all angry and worked up about it....me? meh
HUH! DO YOU LOVE IT??? IS IT AS GREEN AS IT LOOKS IN THE PHOTOS?!?!?!
That's exactly how I would describe 650b. It's not as playful as a 26, but it gives you more traction and rolloverness. Is that right for you or not?
I think it comes down to the same reason I don't like super short stems on my trailbikes, but other people love them. The benefit you get in handling is outweighed by what you give up in body position for climbing...for me.
Nobody is complaining about having choices. It's NOT having a choice that's getting people pissed off about it.
I for one am going to stock up on a couple years supply of my preferred rims and spokes.
I for one am going to stock up on a couple years supply of my preferred rims and spokes.
i, too have want for this bike. alas, currently running a 26'er hardtail (gasp) for trail duties, and liking the heck out of it.
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A year or two ago I would have thought you needed one of these...
But after talking to a few people in the last couple months you might be onto something there. I'm not saying the sky is falling just yet but if there are 26" specific high end products or frames that people are in love with they might want to stock up in the next 6-12 months. Good thing is that it will be a transition period for sure, and plenty of bikes will be able to retrofit or be dually capable of 26/650b, similar to the new Banshee Rune. But in a few years high end 26" bikes might only be made by small independents. Similarly, there will be tire and rim manufacturers that still produce 26" but their numbers will pale in comparison to current numbers.
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Hahaha!! It's working!!! "The Industry" is using 650B to MAKE you buy more bike stuff.
Classic.
Classic.
Buy all new 650b stuff to keep up with the Joneses, buy up all of the disappearing 26" stuff to keep up with Ridemonkey.
I might just give up mountain biking altogether and drain a pool
I could get spare parts for my 8 years old Powerbook. Batteries are also still available. And that from a company that brings new models on the market every 15 minutes.
So even in an industry that moves super fast you can get spare parts longer than for most bikes.
No, buy all those 'obsolete' Enve 26" wheels for peanuts from the classifieds and be done with it.
Guys! Guys! Guys! I got it!.....
The 69b wheel!
The 69b wheel!
I'm more worried about tires. I go through those a lot faster. And you can't store them for very long.
huh?
Show me the contract that they shall have minimum 10 year for spare parts. It depends what parts we are talking about. It is all up to demand. Some rare parts of frames can be made of course but only if you are lucky as with popular Ironhorse Sunday as I have one. Why not heck make own miling, hire CNC operator and stock up stuffs. In the end it doesnt get cheaper as to get chain, casette.
One advice: learn some basic economy and you will be far more happy and less complaints about accepting reality.
You have never seen Fox News apparently...
Oh wait, this isn't the P&WN forum...
oops...
-ska todd
Haha most bike manufacturesr have spare parts for maybe 4 years MAX
Some companies discontinue **** and tell you you're screwed. See Juicy spare parts.
My 26" mountain bikes are cool, but I really don't care. More time sweatin' it than sweating on the trail. I will be faster than weiners on whatever bike I'm on.
Some companies discontinue **** and tell you you're screwed. See Juicy spare parts.
My 26" mountain bikes are cool, but I really don't care. More time sweatin' it than sweating on the trail. I will be faster than weiners on whatever bike I'm on.
and a dropper post. enduro world champs!
tell ya what...if any bike manufacturer starts making as many bikes as apple makes laptops, I'll lead the charge.I could get spare parts for my 8 years old Powerbook. Batteries are also still available. And that from a company that brings new models on the market every 15 minutes.
So even in an industry that moves super fast you can get spare parts longer than for most bikes.
It's called reasonable expectation within any kind of manufacturing industry. Especially for the extreme high prices that these bikes and their components come at.
Anyone who thinks that 26" is the ABSOLUTE PERFECT WHEEL DIAMETER is delusional. Mtn bikes are 26" because 30+ years ago a bunch of maniacs could only get their hands on cruisers when they "invented" mountain biking. Since then we've just come to accept that "that's the way things are", like 9mm quick releases and 100mm hub spacing. Better than some other options that were tried? Yup (I'm looking at you, 24" wheels). Optimal? Nope. Some things might be better, and we won't know until we try.
So everything's fluid, and everything's evolving. About the only real downside is that there's probably only 2 players right now who are big enough to really pull together the hub, rim, tire, tube, frame and fork manufacturers to make any progress, and even they don't sell enough to implement any real change. The entire annual DH scene for a large company is 0.005% of what Apple sold in iPhone 5s the first weekend out. So change takes time.
Will we see a 650b DH bike? Probably. Will it be perfect, or need refinements like a wider front hub width to deal with the longer spokes? Probably the latter. Making the front hub ~20mm wider would add stiffness and strength without any of the drawbacks that occurred when the rear was widened (Q-factor, hitting ankles on chainstays, etc). But it's going to take time, and there'll be more failures than outright successes. But technology progresses. That's life.
/soapbox
So everything's fluid, and everything's evolving. About the only real downside is that there's probably only 2 players right now who are big enough to really pull together the hub, rim, tire, tube, frame and fork manufacturers to make any progress, and even they don't sell enough to implement any real change. The entire annual DH scene for a large company is 0.005% of what Apple sold in iPhone 5s the first weekend out. So change takes time.
Will we see a 650b DH bike? Probably. Will it be perfect, or need refinements like a wider front hub width to deal with the longer spokes? Probably the latter. Making the front hub ~20mm wider would add stiffness and strength without any of the drawbacks that occurred when the rear was widened (Q-factor, hitting ankles on chainstays, etc). But it's going to take time, and there'll be more failures than outright successes. But technology progresses. That's life.
/soapbox