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787 is unsafe!!! RUN! RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!!!

allsk8sno

allsk8sno

Turbo Monkey
Jun 6, 2002
1,153
33
Bellingham, WA
those tests are awesome...i got to do some testing on a center line closet...10k lbs

oh and most airplane interiors are composites(fiberglass) not plastic
 
$tinkle

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
6
Boeing machinists to strike as contract talks fail
Union volunteers rolled out 52-gallon oil drums -- known as "burn barrels" -- and readied coffee and soup to keep expected picketers warm at the company's Everett, Washington plant, despite the balmy 65 degree weather.
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are they going to have streets of fire on the big screen, too?
Boeing, which made a $4.1 billion profit last year and has a record $275 billion worth of commercial plane orders in its books, could financially survive a short strike, but it would further complicate its efforts to get the already-delayed 787 Dreamliner into the air.

Boeing's "best and final" contract offer this time around was delivered to union members a week ago, proposing an 11 percent wage increase over the three-year life of the contract, a one-time lump sum and ratification bonus, and other incentives that the company said would add about $34,000 to the pay of the average machinist, who now makes about $65,000 a year including overtime.

That failed to meet union demands for a 13 percent wage increase, no change to health care contributions and the roll-back of provisions allowing Boeing to outsource work.
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MMike

MMike

A fowl peckerwood.
Sep 5, 2001
18,207
105
just sittin' here drinkin' scotch
A somewhat ill-informed article.....amazingly written by a German....much like how Seattle Times articles about Airbus a steeped in bias.....

But yes, outsourcing everything......really really stupid idea.

I still think Boeing are the leaders of the industry. Not everything they do is a winner. But they are the real innovators. Who came up with the pressurized tube with wings? Boeing. The 707 was the beginning of the modern airliner. Who came up withe the jumbo jet? Boeing. Who is now taking the first leap into the plastic airplane technology? Boeing.

Airbus sits back and watches was Boeing does. They then tweak and improve, learning from Boeing's mistakes. Airbus gets credit for fly-by-wire. But for me, (and not jsut because I worked there), Boeing is the leader, Airbus is the follower. (and I'm not saying it's a bad strategy....I'm sure it's cheaper)
 
Pesqueeb

Pesqueeb

bicycle in airplane hangar
Feb 2, 2007
40,326
16,792
Riding the baggage carousel.
I'll just leave this here.
Boeing Co. (BA) received at least $5.3 billion in illegal U.S. subsidies that gave it an unfair advantage over rival Airbus SAS, World Trade Organization judges ruled, backing a European Union complaint.

Judges in Geneva today confirmed previously confidential findings that the U.S. provided aid to Chicago-based Boeing through federal research grants and state support in developing aircraft including the 787 Dreamliner. Airbus parent European Aeronautic, Defence & Space Co. said the aid to Boeing cost it $45 billion in lost sales and lower prices from 2002 to 2006.

The panel report, which comes nine months after the WTO concluded Airbus had received billions of euros in low-interest government loans from European governments, is the latest ruling in the six-year-old dispute between the world’s two largest commercial planemakers and may encourage the U.S. and the EU to negotiate a settlement.

“This report shows that Boeing has received huge subsidies in the past and continues to receive significant subsidies,” EU Trade Commissioner Karel De Gucht said in a statement in Brussels. “These subsidies have resulted in substantial harm to EU interests, causing Airbus to lose sales, depress its aircraft prices and unfairly lose market share to Boeing.”

WTO judges ruled on EU arguments that Boeing benefited from more than $10 billion in unfair assistance from both NASA and the U.S. Defense Department. The EU also claimed illegal aid to Boeing by states including Washington, Kansas and Illinois.

Judges found that Boeing got $5.3 billion to $6 billion in subsidies between 1989 and 2006 and $3 billion to $4 billion in potential future aid based on Washington state tax measures.
NASA Programs

This includes NASA research and development programs worth $2.6 billion in subsidies between 1989 and 2006, Department of Defense programs with aid as high as $1.2 billion in the same period, three Washington state tax breaks worth up to $4 billion from 2006-2024 and foreign sales corporation export subsidies valued at $2.2 billion until 2006.

Compared with the ruling over Airbus aid, today’s panel report “reveals a market distorted by Airbus’ practices, with illegal launch aid being the key discriminator,” J. Michael Luttig, Boeing executive vice president and general counsel, said in a statement. Boeing wants its bigger rival to reimburse the illegal portion of so-called launch aid until repayments reach what they would have been had the loans been made at market rates.

In their June 30 public decision backing the U.S., WTO judges found that Airbus benefited from the support of European governments, with subsidies for the A380 topping the list of violations. Toulouse, France-based Airbus overtook Boeing in the market for commercial aircraft in 2003.
Negotiated Solution

The EU had sought to prevent the cases from going to the WTO, calling instead for a negotiated solution that it’s continued to recommend. The U.S. has expressed a willingness to negotiate a settlement provided the EU first agrees to scrap launch aid.

The dual cases have become more important as rivals from China, Canada and Brazil emerge and the rulings may set industry-defining guidelines for government support in the $70 billion civil-aviation industry.

The U.S. and Europe filed counter-cases at the WTO in 2004 after the administration of former President George W. Bush unilaterally walked out of a 1992 aircraft-aid accord with the EU. The dispute is the largest ever before the WTO, which can authorize retaliatory sanctions against countries that fail to comply with its rulings.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-03-31/wto-says-u-s-gave-at-least-5-3-billion-illegal-aid-to-boeing.html
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valve bouncer

valve bouncer

Master Dildoist
Feb 11, 2002
7,843
114
Japan
Maybe it's just me but the 2 uncontained engine failures Rolls Royce has had in the past year is more a worry than anything else. Boeing will eventually get it going and it'll be a success. Next interesting one will be the twin aisle 737 replacement.
 
MMike

MMike

A fowl peckerwood.
Sep 5, 2001
18,207
105
just sittin' here drinkin' scotch
valve bouncer said:
Maybe it's just me but the 2 uncontained engine failures Rolls Royce has had in the past year is more a worry than anything else. Boeing will eventually get it going and it'll be a success. Next interesting one will be the twin aisle 737 replacement.
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But that's Rolls' issue...not Boeing's.......(ultimate it's Boeing's. But it's not something THEY can correct)
 
MMike

MMike

A fowl peckerwood.
Sep 5, 2001
18,207
105
just sittin' here drinkin' scotch
And the subsidies thing has been bounced back and forth between those for as long as I've been paying attention. Boeing says Airbus gets too much gov't money. I believe there was even a WTO ruling against Airbus for that.
 
valve bouncer

valve bouncer

Master Dildoist
Feb 11, 2002
7,843
114
Japan
MMike said:
But that's Rolls' issue...not Boeing's.......(ultimate it's Boeing's. But it's not something THEY can correct)
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Yeah that was my point, until RR can definitely say for absolute sure they've fixed that the 787 is effectivelly stalled and there's big questions about the A380.
 
Andyman_1970

Andyman_1970

Turbo Monkey
Apr 4, 2003
3,105
5
The Natural State
MMike said:
Who is now taking the first leap into the plastic airplane technology? Boeing.
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Maybe "big" plastic planes, but Hawker Beech (then Raytheon) beat them by a few years with the Starship (what a winner that was), the Priemer 1, and Hawker Horizon / 4000.

I believe at one point we were a consultant of Boeing's with our mandrel wound fuselage manufacturing process...........
 
Pesqueeb

Pesqueeb

bicycle in airplane hangar
Feb 2, 2007
40,326
16,792
Riding the baggage carousel.
Ah yes, the Starship:


Rutan did, and still does churn out lots of composite small aircraft kits for other people to build. He was one of the very first to promote the technology.

 
syadasti

syadasti

i heart mac
Apr 15, 2002
12,690
290
VT
IH8Rice said:
didnt Burt Rutan build one of the first composite planes?
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No

http://www.nasm.si.edu/collections/artifact.cfm?id=A19850619000

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windecker_Eagle

The Windecker Eagle I has the distinction of being the first all-composite aircraft to receive FAA certification. The Eagle was the product of several years of experimentation by Dr. Leo Windecker and Dr. Fairfax Windecker, working with Dow Chemical Company, to develop lightweight fiberlass reinforced plastic structures for aviation use. A flexible, non-woven glass fiber material called "Fibaloy" was the result and led to the Windecker X-7 prototype.

In 1969, the Eagle I, a four-place, low-wing monoplane, received FAA certification only after building in a 20% over-designed airframe to make up for nervousness about the strength of composite materials. Six Eagles were completed but it was never able to break into the 1970s market that already held several well-established production aircraft. Nevertheless, it is a testament to the pioneering work in the field of composite materials.
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MMike

MMike

A fowl peckerwood.
Sep 5, 2001
18,207
105
just sittin' here drinkin' scotch
DaveW said:
Really?
When did the 707 come out?
I'm picking a few years after this.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Havilland_Comet
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true enough.

The Boeing 707 is a four-engine narrow-body commercial passenger jet airliner developed by Boeing in the early 1950s. Its name is most commonly pronounced as "Seven Oh Seven". The first airline to operate the 707 was Pan American World Airways, inaugurating the type's first commercial flight on October 26, 1958. Boeing delivered a total of 1,011 Boeing 707s including a smaller, faster model of the aircraft that was marketed as the Boeing 720.

Although it was not the first commercial jet in service, the 707 was among the first to be commercially successful. Dominating passenger air transport in the 1960s, and remaining common throughout the 1970s, the 707 is generally credited with ushering in the Jet Age.[4][5] It established Boeing as one of the largest makers of passenger aircraft, and led to the later series of aircraft with "7x7" designations.
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Westy

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
54,442
20,247
Sleazattle
Not sure which plane it is but just saw a bunch of tooling for a fully composite bombardier.
 
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