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8-pots (for real this time!)

Discussion in 'Downhill & Freeride' started by TrueScotsman, Sep 20, 2005.

  1. TrueScotsman

    TrueScotsman Monkey

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    Last week I posted a photoshopped Hope 8-pot (the masterb8!) as a joke.
    Well i just found out that a company called Gator-Brake actually do make one!!!!!! :eek:

    I think someone somewhere needs a slap!

    Here's the link;
    click here
     

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  2. manhattanprjkt83

    manhattanprjkt83 Rusty Trombone

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    wtf, i wonder who is actually going to run those :confused:
     
  3. ridetoofast

    ridetoofast scarred, broken and drunk

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    holy brake power batman.. :eek:
     
  4. TrueScotsman

    TrueScotsman Monkey

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    Holy faceplant, Robin!
     
  5. CBJ

    CBJ Turbo Monkey

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    Let me know when you find a 10 pod that is what I have been looking for in a long time.
     
  6. Slugman

    Slugman Frankenbike

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    I love the slogan "Deadly Braking Force"...
     
  7. TrueScotsman

    TrueScotsman Monkey

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    I'm sure I read that Gator-brake DID do a dual-disc 6-pot (12pot in total) brake as a special show-only set-up.
    I'll se if I can dig up a pic. I think it was for Taipei (sp?) show this year.
     
  8. Sir_Crackien

    Sir_Crackien Turbo Monkey

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    one thing that most people forget it that more pots doesn't equal more power. more pots gives you getter modulation
     
  9. Backpack1

    Backpack1 Monkey

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  10. Brunettes

    Brunettes Monkey

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    and that person would be you for the old post :p
     
  11. TrueScotsman

    TrueScotsman Monkey

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    Slap duly administered.......ouch!

    BTW, Brunettes- nice Banksy graff pic in your avatar :cool:
     
  12. mandown

    mandown Poopdeck Repost

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    depends on the set up.

    modulation is a function of how movement of the lever translates to force applied to the rotors through the caliper.

    "power" is a function of the friction between the pad and the rotor.

    more surface area (implied by more pots) provides greater contact, which would imply more power (all other factors being equal) since the same quality of friction between the pad and the rotor is now spread over a greater area. of course, if the addition of pots impacts the pressure application of the pads, then greater surface area with less pressure could yield the same result as more pressure over a smaller area. i can see how the addition of pots would reduce the pressure each individual pot would apply, and thus yield such results.... the question becomes, how much extra fluid is being pushed around by the lever through the cylinder and lines to make up for the addition of pots.
     
  13. fiddy_ryder

    fiddy_ryder Turbo Monkey

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  14. rbx

    rbx Monkey

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    I think this anwser your question :)
    Man that lever looks like a hydraulic unit ripped from a catepillar!!
     

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  15. manhattanprjkt83

    manhattanprjkt83 Rusty Trombone

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    not impressed...
     
  16. mandown

    mandown Poopdeck Repost

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    yeah, it looks like there is more "stuff" in there. is it enough? is it too much? real world testing will be the way to tell. maybe they made the pistons too small. maybe some other factor is involved. anyway you slice it, they are big and heavy. my hayes 2-pot brakes stop me just fine.
     
  17. Ian Collins

    Ian Collins Turbo Monkey

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    holy overbuilt brake with unessecary garbage everywhere.....6 more seals/pistons to replace when hayes,avid,shimano work just fine....those rotors look a little weak as well....too drilled out...just begging for an ass reaming by some rocks
     
  18. julian_dh

    julian_dh Monkey

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    i dunno what you guys are saying my six pots have way more modulation as well as power over my m4, the m4 just locks up faster so i couldn't see why these brake wouldn't be sick the modulation must be insane, i wouldn't mind one of those rotors ither.
    but i say boo to the multi piece caliper.
     
  19. mandown

    mandown Poopdeck Repost

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    i am saying that pot count alone does not impact modulation. the addition of more pots requires more fluid to move the calipers, which means bigger reservoirs and bigger pistons. if you simply added pots and did not adjust for that factor, then your power would be worse because a squeeze on the lever would move the calipers on a shorter distance, applying less power to the rotor. this is because the fluid being pushed by the piston would be disbursed to drive more calipers in more pots. you have to account for this by adding bigger pistons and more fluid.

    if you add too much piston to the new design, a very small pull on the lever will translate to a ton of pressure on the calipers in the pots and it will negate any modulation benefit the additional pots could have supplied.

    get it?
     
  20. gemini2k

    gemini2k Turbo Monkey

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    physics 101 guys, more surface area does not increase friction or braking power..... Friction is a function of the 2 materials (pad and rotor) and how hard they are pressed against each other.
    ________
    _KIM_IRIS_
     
    #20 -   Sep 20, 2005
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2011
  21. mandown

    mandown Poopdeck Repost

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    no doubt the materials play a part. but physics 101 will also tell you that an increase in surface area will also create more friction. if you use the same material for the pad and rotor, a greater area of contact will result in more friction (assuming there is no resulting change in pressure due to the fact that pressure is a function of surface area and force).

    think tires. bigger tire = more surface contact = more grip.
     
  22. zedro

    zedro Turbo Monkey

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    actually it doesnt, not in the 101 version. There is no surface area parameter in the basic calculation of friction, it is simply the exertion force times the friction coefficient equals the friction force (u*P = F), and the power generated = Force * Velocity (larger rotors have higher contact velocities, hence more power). What 101 doesnt tell you is that the power generated can only be relative to the heat dissapated, and this will be dependant on the area, but it isnt a linear relationship (ie. 2x the area wont equal 2x the friction). So more pots can create a more efficient system mechanically and thermodynamically, but it doesnt garantee it, nor is it necessary.

    The bigger tire argument isnt basedon the same friction characteristics, the mechanics are much different, a bit like fluid mechanics in a way (the analogy would be a bigger tire is like a bigger shovel). Traction is a different animal than a pure friction problem since it involves degrees of slip, or a mix of kinetic and static friction, along with some other factors.
     
  23. mandown

    mandown Poopdeck Repost

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    that is what i was trying to say. thanks for the help Z. i was having a hard time trying to find the right words since my science education has not been very active in the last 10 years.

    more pots = potential for more friction and stopping power
    however, the design of the brake has many other factors that will impact the modulation. pot count alone is not the answer.

    i would also argue that modulation is a fucntion of the engineering of the brake system as a whole, not simply the caliper size and count. brakes are relatively small on DH bikes. it is easier to design on a bigger scale because minor differences/fluctuations have a smaller impact. the potential is there for a brake that has both more power and better modulation.
     
  24. zedro

    zedro Turbo Monkey

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    oh for sure, the number of pots is primarily for spacial arrangement, since the equivalent mechanical advantage (modulation) can be created via a single pot as long as the total area and displacement are the same. So yeah, on the surface, nothing can be concluded from the number of pots, this is most likely 100% marketing at work. Especially with the Ti coated rotors.....
     
  25. caputo1989

    caputo1989 Turbo Monkey

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    I wonder how much they cost because I would run them only because they look so cool. :help:
     
  26. dhkid

    dhkid Turbo Monkey

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    i think i would take their word for it... :blah:
    about the more surface area thingy. just think a hope M4 vs M6. the M6 has loads of modualtion but the M4 sorta has more power.
     
  27. DH biker

    DH biker Turbo Monkey

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    Hope M8's are soon to come...just wait and see ;)
     
  28. CreeP

    CreeP Monkey

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    somehow i doubt it.