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8-pots (for real this time!)

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TrueScotsman

Monkey
Mar 20, 2002
270
2
Scotland
Last week I posted a photoshopped Hope 8-pot (the masterb8!) as a joke.
Well i just found out that a company called Gator-Brake actually do make one!!!!!! :eek:

I think someone somewhere needs a slap!

Here's the link;
click here
 

TrueScotsman

Monkey
Mar 20, 2002
270
2
Scotland
I'm sure I read that Gator-brake DID do a dual-disc 6-pot (12pot in total) brake as a special show-only set-up.
I'll se if I can dig up a pic. I think it was for Taipei (sp?) show this year.
 

mandown

Poopdeck Repost
Jun 1, 2004
13,849
1,333
Transylvania 90210
Sir_Crackien said:
one thing that most people forget it that more pots doesn't equal more power. more pots gives you getter modulation
depends on the set up.

modulation is a function of how movement of the lever translates to force applied to the rotors through the caliper.

"power" is a function of the friction between the pad and the rotor.

more surface area (implied by more pots) provides greater contact, which would imply more power (all other factors being equal) since the same quality of friction between the pad and the rotor is now spread over a greater area. of course, if the addition of pots impacts the pressure application of the pads, then greater surface area with less pressure could yield the same result as more pressure over a smaller area. i can see how the addition of pots would reduce the pressure each individual pot would apply, and thus yield such results.... the question becomes, how much extra fluid is being pushed around by the lever through the cylinder and lines to make up for the addition of pots.
 

rbx

Monkey
mandown said:
depends on the set up.

the question becomes, how much extra fluid is being pushed around by the lever through the cylinder and lines to make up for the addition of pots.
I think this anwser your question :)
Man that lever looks like a hydraulic unit ripped from a catepillar!!
 

Attachments

mandown

Poopdeck Repost
Jun 1, 2004
13,849
1,333
Transylvania 90210
rbx said:
I think this anwser your question :)
Man that lever looks like a hydraulic unit ripped from a catepillar!!
yeah, it looks like there is more "stuff" in there. is it enough? is it too much? real world testing will be the way to tell. maybe they made the pistons too small. maybe some other factor is involved. anyway you slice it, they are big and heavy. my hayes 2-pot brakes stop me just fine.
 

Ian Collins

Turbo Monkey
Oct 4, 2001
1,428
0
Pacific Beach, San Diego, CA
holy overbuilt brake with unessecary garbage everywhere.....6 more seals/pistons to replace when hayes,avid,shimano work just fine....those rotors look a little weak as well....too drilled out...just begging for an ass reaming by some rocks
 

julian_dh

Monkey
Jan 10, 2005
815
0
i dunno what you guys are saying my six pots have way more modulation as well as power over my m4, the m4 just locks up faster so i couldn't see why these brake wouldn't be sick the modulation must be insane, i wouldn't mind one of those rotors ither.
but i say boo to the multi piece caliper.
 

mandown

Poopdeck Repost
Jun 1, 2004
13,849
1,333
Transylvania 90210
julian_dh said:
i dunno what you guys are saying my six pots have way more modulation as well as power over my m4, the m4 just locks up faster so i couldn't see why these brake wouldn't be sick the modulation must be insane, i wouldn't mind one of those rotors ither.
but i say boo to the multi piece caliper.
i am saying that pot count alone does not impact modulation. the addition of more pots requires more fluid to move the calipers, which means bigger reservoirs and bigger pistons. if you simply added pots and did not adjust for that factor, then your power would be worse because a squeeze on the lever would move the calipers on a shorter distance, applying less power to the rotor. this is because the fluid being pushed by the piston would be disbursed to drive more calipers in more pots. you have to account for this by adding bigger pistons and more fluid.

if you add too much piston to the new design, a very small pull on the lever will translate to a ton of pressure on the calipers in the pots and it will negate any modulation benefit the additional pots could have supplied.

get it?
 

gemini2k

Turbo Monkey
Jul 31, 2005
3,526
115
San Francisco
physics 101 guys, more surface area does not increase friction or braking power..... Friction is a function of the 2 materials (pad and rotor) and how hard they are pressed against each other.
________
_KIM_IRIS_
 
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mandown

Poopdeck Repost
Jun 1, 2004
13,849
1,333
Transylvania 90210
no doubt the materials play a part. but physics 101 will also tell you that an increase in surface area will also create more friction. if you use the same material for the pad and rotor, a greater area of contact will result in more friction (assuming there is no resulting change in pressure due to the fact that pressure is a function of surface area and force).

think tires. bigger tire = more surface contact = more grip.
 

zedro

Turbo Monkey
Sep 14, 2001
4,160
0
at the end of the longest line
mandown said:
no doubt the materials play a part. but physics 101 will also tell you that an increase in surface area will also create more friction. if you use the same material for the pad and rotor, a greater area of contact will result in more friction (assuming there is no resulting change in pressure due to the fact that pressure is a function of surface area and force).

think tires. bigger tire = more surface contact = more grip.
actually it doesnt, not in the 101 version. There is no surface area parameter in the basic calculation of friction, it is simply the exertion force times the friction coefficient equals the friction force (u*P = F), and the power generated = Force * Velocity (larger rotors have higher contact velocities, hence more power). What 101 doesnt tell you is that the power generated can only be relative to the heat dissapated, and this will be dependant on the area, but it isnt a linear relationship (ie. 2x the area wont equal 2x the friction). So more pots can create a more efficient system mechanically and thermodynamically, but it doesnt garantee it, nor is it necessary.

The bigger tire argument isnt basedon the same friction characteristics, the mechanics are much different, a bit like fluid mechanics in a way (the analogy would be a bigger tire is like a bigger shovel). Traction is a different animal than a pure friction problem since it involves degrees of slip, or a mix of kinetic and static friction, along with some other factors.
 

mandown

Poopdeck Repost
Jun 1, 2004
13,849
1,333
Transylvania 90210
zedro said:
So more pots can create a more efficient system mechanically and thermodynamically, but it doesnt garantee it, nor is it necessary.

The bigger tire argument isnt basedon the same friction characteristics, the mechanics are much different, a bit like fluid mechanics in a way (the analogy would be a bigger tire is like a bigger shovel). Traction is a different animal than a pure friction problem since it involves degrees of slip, or a mix of kinetic and static friction, along with some other factors.
that is what i was trying to say. thanks for the help Z. i was having a hard time trying to find the right words since my science education has not been very active in the last 10 years.

more pots = potential for more friction and stopping power
however, the design of the brake has many other factors that will impact the modulation. pot count alone is not the answer.

i would also argue that modulation is a fucntion of the engineering of the brake system as a whole, not simply the caliper size and count. brakes are relatively small on DH bikes. it is easier to design on a bigger scale because minor differences/fluctuations have a smaller impact. the potential is there for a brake that has both more power and better modulation.
 

zedro

Turbo Monkey
Sep 14, 2001
4,160
0
at the end of the longest line
mandown said:
i would also argue that modulation is a fucntion of the engineering of the brake system as a whole, not simply the caliper size and count. brakes are relatively small on DH bikes. it is easier to design on a bigger scale because minor differences/fluctuations have a smaller impact. the potential is there for a brake that has both more power and better modulation.
oh for sure, the number of pots is primarily for spacial arrangement, since the equivalent mechanical advantage (modulation) can be created via a single pot as long as the total area and displacement are the same. So yeah, on the surface, nothing can be concluded from the number of pots, this is most likely 100% marketing at work. Especially with the Ti coated rotors.....
 

dhkid

Turbo Monkey
Mar 10, 2005
3,359
0
Malaysia
Slugman said:
I love the slogan "Deadly Braking Force"...
i think i would take their word for it... :blah:
about the more surface area thingy. just think a hope M4 vs M6. the M6 has loads of modualtion but the M4 sorta has more power.