oh that's sweet! now find me a modern 6 speed shifter, preferably sram paddle shifter
8 Speed petition
- Thread starter dropmachine
- Start date
For those that say its a solution to a problem that doesn't exist, I would suggest you say that because you've never ridden a good 8 speed setup.
I currently have a set of XT 8 speed pods on my blur 4x, with an xt 11-30 cassette, COnnex 8 speed chain, and just for fun, an Ultegra SL deraileur. Its super fast to shift, and for a Shimano system, is much harder to knock "out" then a 9 speed system. Really, it is excellent. It truly is.
I also have 3 X.7 8 speed setups, which are all great as well. But they could be better. Simply put, stick me on an 8 speed X.0, or even an X.9, and I'm in heaven. The X.7 isn't a bad shifter, not at all. Its just not as good as the others, OBVIOUSLY.
This is not a case of being a luddite either. I do not crave canti brakes. I do not think the RS1 was the best fork ever. Tioga disc wheels don't do much for me. This is a case of KNOWING that 8 speed is a much better system for bike dirty bikes, and even 6" abused bikes. It just takes more abuse, with fewer hiccups. It doesn't seem to phantom shift as much. While the chains seem stronger, I think really its because they are more likely perfectly in gear, without being cross-geared when they get torqued. All I know is, I can snap 9 speed chains easier then 8. Whether thats the strenth of the chain (which I find suspect) or because the 8 speed system is more likely where its supposed to be is up for debate.
I currently have a set of XT 8 speed pods on my blur 4x, with an xt 11-30 cassette, COnnex 8 speed chain, and just for fun, an Ultegra SL deraileur. Its super fast to shift, and for a Shimano system, is much harder to knock "out" then a 9 speed system. Really, it is excellent. It truly is.
I also have 3 X.7 8 speed setups, which are all great as well. But they could be better. Simply put, stick me on an 8 speed X.0, or even an X.9, and I'm in heaven. The X.7 isn't a bad shifter, not at all. Its just not as good as the others, OBVIOUSLY.
This is not a case of being a luddite either. I do not crave canti brakes. I do not think the RS1 was the best fork ever. Tioga disc wheels don't do much for me. This is a case of KNOWING that 8 speed is a much better system for bike dirty bikes, and even 6" abused bikes. It just takes more abuse, with fewer hiccups. It doesn't seem to phantom shift as much. While the chains seem stronger, I think really its because they are more likely perfectly in gear, without being cross-geared when they get torqued. All I know is, I can snap 9 speed chains easier then 8. Whether thats the strenth of the chain (which I find suspect) or because the 8 speed system is more likely where its supposed to be is up for debate.
I'm with dropmachine
8 speed was lost because in that time Gravity MTB was in one of the worst moments. And then the 9 speed was introduced to be the standart in all kinds of high end mountainbikes.
Well with the recent boom of Gravity disciplines, and being the gearbox far from masification i guess 8 speeds may do a comeback..... fingers crossed.
8 speed was lost because in that time Gravity MTB was in one of the worst moments. And then the 9 speed was introduced to be the standart in all kinds of high end mountainbikes.
Well with the recent boom of Gravity disciplines, and being the gearbox far from masification i guess 8 speeds may do a comeback..... fingers crossed.
I have some Suntour friction thumbies that will match up w/ thatoh that's sweet! now find me a modern 6 speed shifter, preferably sram paddle shifter
I'd say just do what tons of podium 4X and DH guys do and lock out the lowest 3 cogs. The shifter will just get there and not move. If you set it up right it's just fine.
-ska todd
Or because we've never ridden a bad 9-speed set up. Just saying.
More power to you if you guys accomplish this though, its just not something that I would buy based on my luck with what's tried and true over the years on my xc, am, and dh bikes.
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With that logic, you would never upgrade to ANY new component on your bike, other then one that had failed. After all, if Status quo is ok, then why change right?
I've yet to ride a 9 speed group that is as good and trouble free as the 8 speed stuff. I currently have in 2 demo bikes, both 9 speed, including one with SLX. Its just not as solid so far for the SLX bike. unfortunately snow and cold weather means I can't take the other bike out.
I've yet to ride a 9 speed group that is as good and trouble free as the 8 speed stuff. I currently have in 2 demo bikes, both 9 speed, including one with SLX. Its just not as solid so far for the SLX bike. unfortunately snow and cold weather means I can't take the other bike out.
Not really. I'm simply as content with my 9-speed set up as you are with your 8-speed. By my logic, I would upgrade to plenty of lighter and more precise parts, that are 9-speed. The same logic applies to brakes; I would purchase the new redesigned brake for reason x for my downhill bike, with 8" rotors. I would purchase the new tire tread or compound design, in size 2.5 (generally speaking). I've ridden 8-speed set ups in the past, yes they worked well, I'm not saying they didn't. I'm simply saying I have the same experience on board 9-speed stuff. My experience wasn't so profoundly better that I would reconfigure all of my bikes, and spare parts box for races, based on a mainstream reimmergence of 8-speed products. Fair enough? I hope so, you'll find an abundance of people just like me, alot of whom aren't on the ridemonkey downhill forum.
I'm building up a beat big hit and was thinking of using that cassette, shadow RD, and sram rocket shifters. What do you guys think of the rocket and attacks verses the 8sp XT?
Rockets
Attacks
Rockets
Attacks
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It uses 8spd spacing. Take an 8spd shifter and set the limit screws and you'll be set.
I was hoping more for a modern, high end 6spd shifter.
A lot of the arguments against 8 speed revolve around "well my 9 speed stuff works". Yes, a dialed in 9 speed (or even 10 speed, in the example of 'cross) can and will function well even in adverse conditions given they are freshly tuned.
Durability- I'm not really going to get into the chain-width argument. I'm not going to pretend to be a metallurgist or engineer, but its only common sense that a wider chain will resist twisting and side-load forces better than a narrower one. This has also been my experience as a shop mechanic on and off for the last 7 years, as well as a rider/racer for longer than that. I am getting longer lifespans from 8 speed stuff. This is my personal experience, but you are free to feel differently.
But, because the chain strength argument will never be resolved on Ridemonkey, for the consideration of this argument we will even assume that 8 speed and 9 speed chains are identical in all terms of durability.
The fact remains that 8 speed cogs are farther apart, which means that the drive train is far, far less dependent on cable tension, hanger alignment, derailleur alignment, cable friction, as well as far more resistant to clogging or general malfunction from mud, grass or any other common source of contamination. These are incontestable facts- 9, 10, or now even 11 speed drivetrains are far less durable based on these criteria. Can a 9 or 10 speed drivetrain shift well even in bad conditions ? of course...most people race DH on 9 speed spacing and many of the cross guys are on 10 speed. But not without the need for far more precise alignment and maintenance than 8 speed would take.
I'm pretty meticulous about maintenance and rebuilds on my race bike.... but the fact is that even with a season-old 8 speed chain and cassette, a slightly bent X9 b-knuckle (who hasn't tweaked a sram b-knuckle), as well as an out of alignment hanger, that even in mud my drivetrain never skips or misses a shift. That's far less likely with a 9 speed setup. Sure...I could be spending more money to be continually riding on totally fresh 9 speed stuff, but if the derailleur pivots arent slopped out and your cable is fresh...8 speed will still shift more consistently than 9 and require less maintenance. Id rather spend my limited wrench time and bike money on stuff that matters, like riding on a freshly rebuilt fork or fresh tires.
In the case of XC racing, road, or cross racing, there is certainly an advantage to be had with the smaller increments between cogs (in terms of cadence) that 9 or 10 speed can offer...Of course, the need for micro-tuning cadence on a dh bike is non-existent. And many people are running chopped 5 and 6 speed setups with 2-3 tooth gaps between cogs, so please tell me the point using narrower 9 speed cog spacing? Barring the spidered xt 8sp. stuff, all other 8 speed cassettes can be pulled apart for chopped 6 speed, as I have been doing for years. Currently, the only downside of 8 speed is the lack of nice shifters...but that is what the original poster is trying to change.
Just because the status-quo works doesn't mean that there is a more durable, cheaper, and lighter option. Sure, there are no available fancy shifters, but for a DH application, its hard to fault 8 speed. Ive personally been running a modified SX5 8 speed shifter fitted with trimmed aluminum x9 paddles...but bring on the X.0 8 speed paddles, Id be first in line.
Durability- I'm not really going to get into the chain-width argument. I'm not going to pretend to be a metallurgist or engineer, but its only common sense that a wider chain will resist twisting and side-load forces better than a narrower one. This has also been my experience as a shop mechanic on and off for the last 7 years, as well as a rider/racer for longer than that. I am getting longer lifespans from 8 speed stuff. This is my personal experience, but you are free to feel differently.
But, because the chain strength argument will never be resolved on Ridemonkey, for the consideration of this argument we will even assume that 8 speed and 9 speed chains are identical in all terms of durability.
The fact remains that 8 speed cogs are farther apart, which means that the drive train is far, far less dependent on cable tension, hanger alignment, derailleur alignment, cable friction, as well as far more resistant to clogging or general malfunction from mud, grass or any other common source of contamination. These are incontestable facts- 9, 10, or now even 11 speed drivetrains are far less durable based on these criteria. Can a 9 or 10 speed drivetrain shift well even in bad conditions ? of course...most people race DH on 9 speed spacing and many of the cross guys are on 10 speed. But not without the need for far more precise alignment and maintenance than 8 speed would take.
I'm pretty meticulous about maintenance and rebuilds on my race bike.... but the fact is that even with a season-old 8 speed chain and cassette, a slightly bent X9 b-knuckle (who hasn't tweaked a sram b-knuckle), as well as an out of alignment hanger, that even in mud my drivetrain never skips or misses a shift. That's far less likely with a 9 speed setup. Sure...I could be spending more money to be continually riding on totally fresh 9 speed stuff, but if the derailleur pivots arent slopped out and your cable is fresh...8 speed will still shift more consistently than 9 and require less maintenance. Id rather spend my limited wrench time and bike money on stuff that matters, like riding on a freshly rebuilt fork or fresh tires.
In the case of XC racing, road, or cross racing, there is certainly an advantage to be had with the smaller increments between cogs (in terms of cadence) that 9 or 10 speed can offer...Of course, the need for micro-tuning cadence on a dh bike is non-existent. And many people are running chopped 5 and 6 speed setups with 2-3 tooth gaps between cogs, so please tell me the point using narrower 9 speed cog spacing? Barring the spidered xt 8sp. stuff, all other 8 speed cassettes can be pulled apart for chopped 6 speed, as I have been doing for years. Currently, the only downside of 8 speed is the lack of nice shifters...but that is what the original poster is trying to change.
Just because the status-quo works doesn't mean that there is a more durable, cheaper, and lighter option. Sure, there are no available fancy shifters, but for a DH application, its hard to fault 8 speed. Ive personally been running a modified SX5 8 speed shifter fitted with trimmed aluminum x9 paddles...but bring on the X.0 8 speed paddles, Id be first in line.
Thank you sir. A fine example of somebody who gets it.
A.P Did your x9 paddles just drop right in as a replacement or did you have to machine off anything? Also how did you get just the x9 paddles? Replacements or cannibalism?
ProII SS hubs also fit 6 gears.
And I also want an 8 speed set-up. But don't entirely fight against 9-speed. Don't have problems with it, just think it is more DH friendly.
Good! Then sign the petition, lets see if it can actually happen...
http://www.petitiononline.com/sram8/petition.html
http://www.petitiononline.com/sram8/petition.html
Rockets aren't made anymore. I'm not sure if they ever existed in 8sp. If they did, they are hard to find. Personally, the x7/Attack is a more durable shifter anyways. As I stated before, I'm willing to trade a mushy shifter for a more durable one.
My current setup is 8sp Attack shifter, new Saint der, and a SRAM 12-26 Cass. It works great and everything but the der where very cheap.
The 8sp 12-26 cassettes are cheap and light. Lighter than Ultergra 9sp if my memory serves.
I think I might have to look at those attacks. I know the rockets are made, I was going to grab a set off ebay and "ghetto route" the cable to get 8spd spacing. Is there anyplace to buy attack shifters as separates, I've only seen them in pairs?
Plenty of options if you like grip shift... I am running xt cassette, sram 5.0 gripshift(nice feel, one of the shorter grip shifters which I like), and an x9 derailleur. It is shifts as nicely as any setup I have ridden and never requires adjusting like all my 9spd setups have. Another bonus is the gripshift is like $10 and weighs less than an x0 trigger...