Quantcast

8020 frame jig build

sikocycles

Turbo Monkey
Feb 14, 2002
1,343
441
CT
I will be welding up the front triangle this weekend. Its been a busy crazy last couple weeks so I hope I can get the front triangle finished.
Then to the rear which is the hard part.
Hang in there. I still blow holes but not like when I started. It was awful. Just make sure you have a good welding helmet.
 

buckoW

Turbo Monkey
Mar 1, 2007
2,349
1,736
Champery, Switzerland
I will be welding up the front triangle this weekend. Its been a busy crazy last couple weeks so I hope I can get the front triangle finished.
Then to the rear which is the hard part.
Hang in there. I still blow holes but not like when I started. It was awful. Just make sure you have a good welding helmet.
Yes, I can’t see very well most of the time. I’ll look into a better helmet. Any recommendations?

I added some gussets and blew a few more holes yesterday.

BD609E74-03BF-4AAC-9E53-2934E11FD0D2.jpeg


[
7344AB01-39AB-4F21-B5BB-FA9276BD9AC8.jpeg


The lower shock mount is the last thing to do. I want to do that today and then try and maybe even gat a run in.


Any ideas where I can order some cromo plate?

0DCF5C0E-FC9B-4B22-909A-DD5C9CD8303A.jpeg
C3077A08-87AF-48FA-B824-315E6A0A7D72.jpeg
7344AB01-39AB-4F21-B5BB-FA9276BD9AC8.jpeg


CDBA7A3B-1019-4E7A-B136-F2E62F35F52C.jpeg


I was considering using a shockmount from an old Scott Voltage FR. I think I’ll weld on the steel one.


E7A03EC2-B9C0-4728-8486-37F418EDC9C5.jpeg
 

sikocycles

Turbo Monkey
Feb 14, 2002
1,343
441
CT
I have a Lincoln Viking auto darkening for tacking and some welding. I also have a Jackson passive with a #9 gold lens. This is like a standard in the frame welding industry
 

buckoW

Turbo Monkey
Mar 1, 2007
2,349
1,736
Champery, Switzerland
I have a Lincoln Viking auto darkening for tacking and some welding. I also have a Jackson passive with a #9 gold lens. This is like a standard in the frame welding industry
Awesome! Thanks. I got flashed yesterday out of nowhere. Is that why you use an auto darkening only for tacking and some welding?

Are you using some special tig rod?

I appreciate the tips!
 

buckoW

Turbo Monkey
Mar 1, 2007
2,349
1,736
Champery, Switzerland
Here’s how the lower shock mount turned out. I’m on the hunt for heat sinks now!
It’s funny. I normally hate internal routing because I swap brakes a lot, etc. but here I am thinking how nice she’d look with internal routing…..

FCEB6CA4-2D6B-498B-8D70-983195F0C0A5.jpeg



B89D4390-CFFE-4CD3-AB9E-AB3115598F2B.jpeg


3A0A5071-D6F2-48E3-93CB-894D45608551.jpeg


And I made her a shiny matching top cap and headset dust cap.
6444FCC7-2BBF-40D7-95A8-38B59B5F0938.jpeg
 

jstuhlman

We noticed.
Dec 3, 2009
13,319
8,031
Cackalacka du Nord
Here’s how the lower shock mount turned out. I’m on the hunt for heat sinks now!
It’s funny. I normally hate internal routing because I swap brakes a lot, etc. but here I am thinking how nice she’d look with internal routing…..

View attachment 167457


View attachment 167456

View attachment 167459

And I made her a shiny matching top cap and headset dust cap.
View attachment 167458
all that looks fucking awesome...other than all the crap all over the back end! :rofl:
 

HardtailHack

used an iron once
Jan 20, 2009
3,330
1,045
Internal cable routing on a steel bike is a shit idea unless you treat the frame really well internally or run sealed tubing through the frame.
I had my hardtail made with nutserts on the bottom of the DT to run the cables there, I initially used the Syncros guides but now I only have a brake line as the gears and dropper use the electric boogaloo so I use these sorta things-
1636966823936.png
 

sikocycles

Turbo Monkey
Feb 14, 2002
1,343
441
CT
Easy weld plate, not sure if they will ship to you.

I use and auto darkening to see where the torch and tig rod is. Hard to see it with a passive helmet. I go back and forth but I use my auto helmet more. Just get a good helmet. It make a HUGE difference.

Tig rod I am using
https://www.bikefabsupply.com/filler-rod/er-70s-2-035-x-36-1-lb and

I use the .045 more since it cools the puddle better and less burn thru and holes.

I finished the front triangle yesterday and did not come out great. Hard to get a good weld angle on some to the tubes plus I was not using enough heat in places.
 

sikocycles

Turbo Monkey
Feb 14, 2002
1,343
441
CT
Here are a few pictures. Be nice guys. It’s my first frame.

Not enought heat on the spot. PITA place to weld, just wants to melt away.
A9C98DB6-1D28-4D6F-8115-25C853400C9E.jpeg
819F4854-6378-41A8-A834-DBC3C96C008E.jpeg
D8043A1C-2106-4B74-9EB2-3DDA09923C29.jpeg

819F4854-6378-41A8-A834-DBC3C96C008E.jpeg
frame.jpg
 
Last edited:

sikocycles

Turbo Monkey
Feb 14, 2002
1,343
441
CT
Awesome! Thanks. I got flashed yesterday out of nowhere. Is that why you use an auto darkening only for tacking and some welding?

Are you using some special tig rod?

I appreciate the tips!
Not sure what I give you are tips since we are going thru the same stuff. it is just what I found out with research.
 

buckoW

Turbo Monkey
Mar 1, 2007
2,349
1,736
Champery, Switzerland
Not sure what I give you are tips since we are going thru the same stuff. it is just what I found out with research.
Sounds good. It looks like you know what you are doing so I’m interested.

What amps were you running? I think I was too hot but I couldn’t get a puddle going when I was lower than 38 to 41?
 

sikocycles

Turbo Monkey
Feb 14, 2002
1,343
441
CT
I am at about 1 pulse per second, 101 amps. 25ish% peak 5% background.
1 amp per thousands of an inch is what is called for usually.
 
Last edited:

buckoW

Turbo Monkey
Mar 1, 2007
2,349
1,736
Champery, Switzerland
Are you using pulse?
I did not. I used the pedal and was around 37-41 amps. I will try the pulse and thanks for some settings!

Nice work on the alignment!

I stopped by a riding buddy’s frame building workshop last night to face and chase the bb.
https://instagram.com/atelier_d_olive?utm_medium=copy_link

Olivier does some really fine craftsmanship with brazing and tig so basically the opposite of what I did. It was super cool to see his shop and he says my frame should hold up. The down tube is his biggest concern thinking I didn’t use enough filler rod. He was also surprised that my bb didn’t move too much without heat sinks and all the heat I put in there.

Olivier explained to me about how he does a lay wire pulse technique. I will try what you guys are saying.
 

sikocycles

Turbo Monkey
Feb 14, 2002
1,343
441
CT

buckoW

Turbo Monkey
Mar 1, 2007
2,349
1,736
Champery, Switzerland
Thanks. Those articles help a lot! I have a better idea of what to practice now with the settings, etc.

I got the bb faced and chased and spot welded on the cable guides yesterday. Just need to bleed a front brake and she’s ready. I pedaled up the road last night to manual back down. Feels solid like a bicycle should and manuals real good but I have the bars pretty high. Sidenote, I bought a 200mm Fox dropper post a while ago but I couldn’t fit it in any of the frames I have currently because it‘s so long. I tweaked the seat angle a tit hair steeper on my “precision jig“ than my last frame and it fits on this frame! Pretty happy about that.

Oh and I forgot to order 38mm tubing for the down tube so it’s a 35mm, haha. I guess I get to try a more compliant front triangle than my last frame.

F3A93850-3563-4DC0-BC93-A09EDA9EE02E.jpeg


A17D74AE-814D-43F2-AF82-53DC377376C7.jpeg
 

sikocycles

Turbo Monkey
Feb 14, 2002
1,343
441
CT
@buckoW that looks great. Hope mine turns out rideable also.
I am working on the chain stays. Wish I did not go with asymmetrical drop outs. Makes things harder but thought drilling for post mounts would be a pain. Measure 100 times then think about cutting.
A542DDDF-A1D1-4EAE-B8B0-8A9D52E61A32.jpeg
347540F0-EE75-44A9-9C51-5A90031480EF.jpeg
FB513B1A-C1B9-4828-84F6-E37681058D7E.jpeg
 

buckoW

Turbo Monkey
Mar 1, 2007
2,349
1,736
Champery, Switzerland
This has become a great thread on rookie frame building. So happy I posted my journey and same with @buckoW.

There will be alot of mistakes, I have already

On a side note I will tig braze with silicon bronze my bottle bosses and cable stops. Uses less hear the tig welding and should hold up.

I am happy you are ok with me posting so many pics and asking questions. Haha, I was holding back… For a moment there I thought I might be stepping on your beautiful frame jig’s toes!

I really enjoy attempting this at the same time that you are.

I had my first few runs on my bike and I am really happy with how it rides. I was comfy very quick and nothing broke or bent.

C2199635-435E-4832-B583-13CFD557D337.jpeg



FD514A19-A027-4614-B84C-7B1BADDD842C.jpeg
 

sikocycles

Turbo Monkey
Feb 14, 2002
1,343
441
CT
No problem. Great build. Happy it is working for you.
As Drew from Engin Cycles say. #allabouttheprocess we can all learn from each other. Can’t wait until my frame is done
 

buckoW

Turbo Monkey
Mar 1, 2007
2,349
1,736
Champery, Switzerland
No problem. Great build. Happy it is working for you.
As Drew from Engin Cycles say. #allabouttheprocess we can all learn from each other. Can’t wait until my frame is done
I’m going back for some runs on mine today. Pretty excited!

#allaboutthrocess I couldn’t get the angle I needed with the v and tube blocks I had for the seat tube construction so I ended up using a dm stem mounted to a block of alu. I liked the creative process of problem solving with what I have on hand.

6D020BFA-0314-4358-AB18-9DFD6564DD92.jpeg


A buddy mentioned turning the hole saws in a lathe to make the miters that much tighter as well as using hole saws with a lot more small cutters. I might throw a wobbly one in the lathe and see what happens. I like the idea of making a cheaper hole saw more precise.

Annular cutters look sweet for miters. Have you tried anything like that? It would be cool to set up an auto centering vice on a dividing table on a horizontal mill. It seems like you could go pretty fast and precise with something like that.
 

sikocycles

Turbo Monkey
Feb 14, 2002
1,343
441
CT
I do face my hole saws on the lathe before I put the arbor in. Removes the paint and I get a flatter surface. Not sure how much different it makes but I do it. I will do a before a after video.
never tried that I just use paragon blocks and the miter daddy
 

buckoW

Turbo Monkey
Mar 1, 2007
2,349
1,736
Champery, Switzerland
I took the vertical head off of my small mill this morning to see if I could figure out a better way with what I have. Miters using the hole saw mounted horizontally works real nice. I can use the angle gauge on the pivoting vice now rather than by eye. This will be a much better more rigid setup too, I think.

172255C4-628C-40CD-A526-5AF830042A97.jpeg


6E685A9D-D0AB-4BD1-B0A6-693718D9E8DC.jpeg
 

sikocycles

Turbo Monkey
Feb 14, 2002
1,343
441
CT
That is how firefly and engin does most of their tube mitering on horizontal mills. When I went to Firefly they had dedicated machines for each tube.
watch the Engin shop tour from Cobra frame works.
 

sikocycles

Turbo Monkey
Feb 14, 2002
1,343
441
CT
Chainstay Monday. Drive side is fitted up and looks good.
Non-drive is very close. A lot of filing since don’t have the right side hole saw. Plus it’s good to work on the filing. Should have it fit up tomorrow and the tack. Install into frame fixture and tack to BB.
then weld her up.
Then onto the seat stays.
877FABDB-5869-45E6-9DDB-477522C01B2B.jpeg
54A0FF46-C18A-4C00-A7DE-7B75607B7F5A.jpeg
8A816C4B-5521-4EEA-8041-04149251F1A4.jpeg
4EE58B01-FBE6-46DC-AF18-135CCAF43D85.jpeg
 

buckoW

Turbo Monkey
Mar 1, 2007
2,349
1,736
Champery, Switzerland
That is how firefly and engin does most of their tube mitering on horizontal mills. When I went to Firefly they had dedicated machines for each tube.
watch the Engin shop tour from Cobra frame works.
Oh man, that Engin shop is so cool! I love all the big old machines.

That chainstay jig is such a sweet setup. I kinda like the fixture making part as much as the frame building.

My hole saws mounted to Morse taper 3 arbors are sometimes too far away to get the angles. Paragon doesn’t have any hole saw arbors in stock (i later found some at Ceeway) so I tried my hand at making one with a die holder in the tailstock. I think I will order the rest of the arbors I want rather than make more. It was a pain to thread it like that and I should learn to cut the threads on the lathe.

1A5E3BAE-978A-40F6-B0BF-57CC49806408.jpeg


9EAE1407-C469-4444-A408-269A9EE90413.jpeg


And a pic of my bike in my messy little shop.

2F514859-A314-4B59-BAB7-3C6470408758.jpeg


So, when you are cleaning up your hole saws… Are you turning them down smaller, getting rid of the odd outboard teeth and shaving off all the paint? Just give her a little skim? Carbide? HSS?

I tried to do one but held in the chuck and I didn’t very get good results. I couldn’t get it turning close to straight and I chipped a carbide insert pretty quickly. Maybe if I did it after mounting it on an arbor it will have less runout after trimming?

1637720707695.jpeg
 

buckoW

Turbo Monkey
Mar 1, 2007
2,349
1,736
Champery, Switzerland
I just face the top part when the arbor threads into. Get the paint off of it.
engin shop is a museum of old shop tools. Very cool.
Here are a few more hole saw arbor companies.
Ah ok! I was thinking I should turn it concentric to the arbor. I see what you mean now.

Those ATI hole saws look real nice!

Thanks for those links. I hadn’t seen the last 2. Ceeway in the UK got back to me and he has some in stock as well as some straight gauge 38mm cromo tubing I need for a downtube. I will try and bend a couple down tubes at a friend’s shop on his sweet Cobra tubing bender.
 

buckoW

Turbo Monkey
Mar 1, 2007
2,349
1,736
Champery, Switzerland
The cobra bender is on my list very soon
hey @sikocycles! You get any shop time in?

I started a shorter travel, lower standover version of my last frame last weekend. I attempted to refine it a bit more and try the pulse settings. Sometimes I forgot to reset the pulse settings after turning the welder on and I get the full amps without pulse. Woah! That will blow a hole pretty quick. I did feel like I progressed but I haven’t shown it to any competent welders yet. I have a few fabricator and engineer friends that I like to get their squint eye opinions on these before I ride it.

Still needs a shock mount, cable guides and a couple gussets on the dt and st. The downtube is a Dedeccaci and it is supposed to have the bend at the headtube to clear the fork crown. The butting is not ideal (.8mm at the headtube side) like this but I’ll throw a couple gussets at her and ride some leafy loam for a few runs just in case I get…….Double Butted. Sketchy.

573872C0-BCDB-47E0-B340-C756F1198AD3.jpeg


I tried to smooth out the angles more than my last one. The seat tube assembly got a lot of attention this time to smoothen out the angles. Offsetting the lower pivot and bb miter shifter the tube forward and decreased the sharp angles. Massaging this one a little.

5866612C-7B5F-427D-A988-68F75B795A6C.jpeg


287F405A-4651-45B6-B003-680ADB1547AF.jpeg


Welding improvements I would say? I think my HAZ are much smaller this time?

621710B8-3261-494F-8A84-B6FFBBB8440D.jpeg


Here you can see the changes to the lines. I made it a little longer with more stand over and the shock reservoir will hit the downtube so I will need to make this one a shorter travel version. I’m thinking 150-180mm of rear travel but that will depend of the piggyback touching the downtube at bottom out.

5925D411-9234-414A-96ED-4A4504CD2070.jpeg
 

dump

Turbo Monkey
Oct 12, 2001
6,943
2,120
Nice Menzi Muck sticker! Love those things. Ran into an old abandonded one years ago up in the mountains.
 

buckoW

Turbo Monkey
Mar 1, 2007
2,349
1,736
Champery, Switzerland
Nice Menzi Muck sticker! Love those things. Ran into an old abandonded one years ago up in the mountains.
Nice! I am very surprised you know what those are! I thought they were a Euro only thing. Those are my favorite excavators for building the style of trails I like in the steep mountains around here. We built most of the Champery WC DH track with one. Imagine taking an excavator down that? It was scary everyday. I can dig up some pics if you are interested. I have way too many pictures of dirt piles next to Menzis. It just never translated well into pics.

My friend has a new one and here he is terracing in front of my house where I want to build a 2 car garage for not parking cars in there but for a frame building workshop. It is amazing how he hats a call and has to leave with his excavator how he tip toes between breakable Things.


96DC13EC-5F74-4E98-BE43-3B9476231A49.jpeg
 

sikocycles

Turbo Monkey
Feb 14, 2002
1,343
441
CT
I filed and fit the chainstays to the dropouts and tacked them.
Most of the weekend was leaf blowing so I did not get alot of shop time.

Awesome job.