Have any 
's actually bought a works 888???
Espen
's actually bought a works 888???Espen
888 Works
- Thread starter Espen
- Start date
And do they do anything besides change your oil height and install the compression sleeve?
from a recent post on mtbr.
Brian Peterson said:
I don't thinks it's possible to do much more inside these forks. Thats why I am curious. Works website anyone?
E
E
You should do a search, this was exhaustively discussed on here.Espen said:
What it boiled down to was that they don't do anything that a competent mechanic and a little break in time can't do, but it does get serviced by a Marz. technician with oil heights and springs for your weight, the polished bushings are basically a very quick break-in, and Brian said something about it creating a service history for your fork that can be referenced by future technicians where any future dealings can be noted.
IMO, not worth the money, but if you can't service your fork yourself and don't have a good mechanic around, it could be worth it.
http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=92415&highlight=Works+888Espen said:
Here is an old thread. It has some info about the Works 888 + the linky. It seems that the internals are pretty much the same for the Works 888 and 888. The only difference is that the works 888 is dialed by a Marz technican for your weight and riding style. The question is... Is it really worth the extra $400 to you?
-CAbiker
so all of you just send me your 888 and $200 (half price) and i will break it in, service it, and have it back to you within a month.......binary visions said:
What happens if you get thirty of them to take care of and they all expect them to be fully broken in within a month?!WestCoastHucker said:
...ahh, what the hell. I'll do it for $100...
I'll do it for $50!binary visions said:What happens if you get thirty of them to take care of and they all expect them to be fully broken in within a month?!
...ahh, what the hell. I'll do it for $100...
neaky: 
But... isn't this an auction to do this service the cheapest? Who could do it for cheaper than $50???? neaky:
neaky:
then i'd be looking to expand my business....binary visions said:
whaddaya say?..........partner?
WestCoastHucker said:
How 'bout $19.99 for a fluid change, some DH runs to break it in good. You can't beat that deal anywhere in the US! :eviltongu
Heck, its the best deal in the WORLD! How about for free, just cover shipping!!!!
This service is provided by me as an excuse to monkey around with a 888 fork, I will not actually do anything other that ride your fork for some sweet DH action. By sending me your fork you sign over any ownership of said fork and rely completely on my good nature (I am not good natured) as to when and if you get back your fork. There are no guarantees expressed or written. Good luck sucker!
This service is provided by me as an excuse to monkey around with a 888 fork, I will not actually do anything other that ride your fork for some sweet DH action. By sending me your fork you sign over any ownership of said fork and rely completely on my good nature (I am not good natured) as to when and if you get back your fork. There are no guarantees expressed or written. Good luck sucker!
What would you say to the Works fork coming with both the stock crowns and the new lower ride height crowns for that price? So, you would end up with a fork tuned to your specs and a choice of crowns to dial in your ride....
Brian
Brian
Wasn't there some hippie tech place a few years ago that would custom tune your fork? I guess since we don't hear about them we can assume that custom tuning doesn't really have much demand, at least for the price.
Brian Peterson said:
You could still buy a stock 888 and some go-ride crowns and come out $100 ahead.
Wouldn't it be best if Marz. offered you a choice when you buy the stock fork in the first place? Do you do this yet?Brian Peterson said:
It has always struck me as weird how so many people want to have products that perform at the highest possible level, but the thought of paying somebody to acheive it is considered to be unacceptable.... Your mechanic on your car doesn't work for free, but the guy that works on your bike should.... But on the other hand, there is growing support for Push which is a company that rebuilds and reworks suspension products...
Basically, as technologies progress, there will be more of a need for proper training to work on things. Especially suspension... Look at the motorcycle world... There are a lot of companies that do nothing but rebuild and tune suspension..
Brian
Basically, as technologies progress, there will be more of a need for proper training to work on things. Especially suspension... Look at the motorcycle world... There are a lot of companies that do nothing but rebuild and tune suspension..
Brian
That's a step in the right direction, but I'm not sure this is the best place to ask such a question. We're mostly bike geeks here who have a basic understanding of suspension and a significant portion of us don't mind getting our hands dirty.Brian Peterson said:
All that adds up to a group of people who are going to laugh at someone asking for $400 to tune up a fork, as nice a tuning job as it may be.
Wasn't there something about hard anodized stanctions that never materialized? Different stanctions, low rider crowns.. Those are heading in the right direction. Something I can't get by simply carefully digging through the tuning specs.
That's why the Push stuff is so popular. Everyone wants absolute peak performance and actual new parts that customize already good products are fairly popular right now. For just a tune-up, though, all something that someone with a little patience can do themselves? Nah.
But, like I said, there may be a lot of people who aren't willing to get their hands dirty or don't know a good mechanic who are willing to pay...
It is something we are looking at..... We don't have the crowns yet.... But it may end up being something like this...Matt D said:
Works: Both crown set included.
Standard: Crowns swapped at time of purchase if requested by the shop placing the order for a small upcharge.
Brian
Personally I think this is a great program. You get the fork all tuned to your liking, with possibly 2 sets of crowns, and a personal tech at Marz. This seems like a perfect program for the serious privateer racer, I can't believe you guys are bitching about it. As Brian mentioned, people send their stuff in to push and rave about it, why arent you willing to have the OEM dealer do it for you?
Altho i can understand the, "well why didnt they just do it in the first place" idea, but seriously. Maybe swap out some plastic parts for aluminum, have diff paint and new stickers too. To be honest, the new stickers and paint will probably sell more forks then the performance upgrade.
Altho i can understand the, "well why didnt they just do it in the first place" idea, but seriously. Maybe swap out some plastic parts for aluminum, have diff paint and new stickers too. To be honest, the new stickers and paint will probably sell more forks then the performance upgrade.
Push is different from this program. With Push, you get something you actually cannot achieve from home no matter how much patience you have with a manual.Transcend said:
I don't think anyone is bitching about it - after all, it's not like they're pushing it on anyone (ha ha, get it, "pushing"?), it's just an option that exists. Just sharing opinions on whether or not each individual person thinks that it's worth it.
That sounds like a great idea, and would make alot of people happy.Brian Peterson said:
And better yet, then I would not have to read 8,753,296 different threads about crowns.
I think people who take there car to the dealer and pay $50 for an oil change are silly too. I don't like paying for things I can do myself. Sounds like the works fork will be nice. But for the money, I'd rather buy stock and tune myself.
BV beat me to it, but yeah -- the Push thing is less than $150 for something you CANNOT do yourself, pretty much no matter what, whereas the Marz. program is $400 for something that pretty much anybody can do. Hence the bitching.Transcend said:
Brian P --- the idea of being able to get the low-rise crowns from the get-go for a SMALL upcharge is cool. Why not just make it an either/or option though, like the 7"/8"?? I mean, by just offering the low-rise crown, you're effectively admitting that they can be necessary for some applications; might as well follow thru on that......
In a simple answer.... Costs. The new crowns cost significantly more than the standard crowns.
Brian
Brian
It's always struck me as weird how someone can do 15 minutes of work on my bike and think I would pay $400 bucks for it.
If you're charging for parts, then charge for parts (springs, crowns), fair enough. If I pick up the works for and don't need a different weight spring or lowered crowns then I'm paying you $400 to pull my lowers off, add some oil, and replace a few bushings?
The Push comparison is iffy. Push charges you based on what they do, if you don't need a new spring you don't pay extra for a new spring. They also charge a hell of a lot less. I agree that you guys should make a fair rate but I sat and watched your techs replace my lower. I got the works deal, the new works lowers, and they raised my oil height. It took 15 minutes, if I had to pay $400 bucks for that I'd at least want you to stick around and cuddle for a while afterwords.
Push charges $55 to change your oil, and $100 for a rebuild with new o-rings and seals. This sounds fairly close to what the works program is, plus springs if needed. Why not change $50-100 to do it then? You ask why people expect their bikes worked on for free but I don't think that is the case. We're all just used to paying a reasonable fee. If I asked a shop to pull my 888 apart, install some polished bushings and adjust my oil height I would expect to pay around $50 for it. With springs I can see $50-100 more. That puts it at around $100-150, are the magic Zoke techs $250-300 better at this than my LBS?
If you're charging for parts, then charge for parts (springs, crowns), fair enough. If I pick up the works for and don't need a different weight spring or lowered crowns then I'm paying you $400 to pull my lowers off, add some oil, and replace a few bushings?
The Push comparison is iffy. Push charges you based on what they do, if you don't need a new spring you don't pay extra for a new spring. They also charge a hell of a lot less. I agree that you guys should make a fair rate but I sat and watched your techs replace my lower. I got the works deal, the new works lowers, and they raised my oil height. It took 15 minutes, if I had to pay $400 bucks for that I'd at least want you to stick around and cuddle for a while afterwords.
Push charges $55 to change your oil, and $100 for a rebuild with new o-rings and seals. This sounds fairly close to what the works program is, plus springs if needed. Why not change $50-100 to do it then? You ask why people expect their bikes worked on for free but I don't think that is the case. We're all just used to paying a reasonable fee. If I asked a shop to pull my 888 apart, install some polished bushings and adjust my oil height I would expect to pay around $50 for it. With springs I can see $50-100 more. That puts it at around $100-150, are the magic Zoke techs $250-300 better at this than my LBS?
Brian Peterson said:
Why? Are they made from a differant material or manufacturing process? If not less material should mean smaller cost. Anyway, I doubt anybody will want the tall ass crowns when the new ones come out.Brian Peterson said:
well stated, crashing sux. you pretty much summed it up.
when i got my fox push'ed, i got a bag full of the old fox parts and the satisfaction of knowing i had a total redesign inside (which i noticed on the very first descent on loose rock). and for a very reasonable rate.
i had thought that WOrks 888 had something physically different, like surface treatment, but it sounds like you're basically charging 400 dollars for 100 dollars worth of work, max. for someone to question that 400 charge does not warrant a reply along the lines of "well you bikers expect work to be done for free". there's a lot of space between the number zero and the number 400. plot it on a graph and see for yourself.
offering different crowns is kinda like offering different spring. if a company does that for no net charge difference, they win hella customer loyalty. why just last week i went to a shoe store, and they sold me the size shoe that fit me! yes, you'd think they'd sell me a size 9 and then 'upcharge' me on the size 11 that actually fit me, but damn they sold me the size 11 at the same price!
i'm encouraged that marz is talking 'bout different crowns tho. this is different than the marz. responses i saw not that long ago, which basically implied that anyone who complained about crown to axle height being too tall on a 8 inch fork was an idiot. "it's an 8 inch fork. deal with it" was the general message there.
since then, i've rarely met a rider who wasn't using aftermarket crowns on the 888. but maybe i just ride w/ whiners. :evil:
bottom line: charge $250, incl. choice of crown and springs until the fork rides right, and mebbe it starts to make sense. just my .000000002 cents
when i got my fox push'ed, i got a bag full of the old fox parts and the satisfaction of knowing i had a total redesign inside (which i noticed on the very first descent on loose rock). and for a very reasonable rate.
i had thought that WOrks 888 had something physically different, like surface treatment, but it sounds like you're basically charging 400 dollars for 100 dollars worth of work, max. for someone to question that 400 charge does not warrant a reply along the lines of "well you bikers expect work to be done for free". there's a lot of space between the number zero and the number 400. plot it on a graph and see for yourself.
offering different crowns is kinda like offering different spring. if a company does that for no net charge difference, they win hella customer loyalty. why just last week i went to a shoe store, and they sold me the size shoe that fit me! yes, you'd think they'd sell me a size 9 and then 'upcharge' me on the size 11 that actually fit me, but damn they sold me the size 11 at the same price!
i'm encouraged that marz is talking 'bout different crowns tho. this is different than the marz. responses i saw not that long ago, which basically implied that anyone who complained about crown to axle height being too tall on a 8 inch fork was an idiot. "it's an 8 inch fork. deal with it" was the general message there.
since then, i've rarely met a rider who wasn't using aftermarket crowns on the 888. but maybe i just ride w/ whiners. :evil: bottom line: charge $250, incl. choice of crown and springs until the fork rides right, and mebbe it starts to make sense. just my .000000002 cents
Word. I don't like paying for stuff that I could do easily by myself. However, I would spend the $ if I don't have the equipment to handle oil changes AND need some proof that I take care of my car to the warranty program of the auto manufacturer.buildyourown said:
Also, I don't have the tools and a plastic oil tank... Bottom line is that I have nowhere to store it. FYI, I live in a 600 sq house filled with 5 bikes, 1 snowboard, some snow skis, outdoor stuff (tents, camping gear, etc) and a bunch of sh!te. Personally, I don't want a plastic container filled with auto oil sitting within 100 feet of where I sit in the LR AND people in this complex tend to be real b!tchy when it comes to grease and working on cars outside in the parking lot... it just depends on the situation(s) that you are in (i.e., warranty programs need ACTUAL evidence of oil changes, etc).
Everybody is different and will state different opinions, and that is totally cool. I just don't justify having to cough up an extra 400 for a fork that will arrive "broken in" at the door. Why not expend the energy that I have and break it in myself and get the fluids changed with the tools that I have available. Most people, in general, won't agree... but yeah, its a start and a good idea since most people don't know how to properly dial their forks.