[Happymtb.fr]

I just realised that RS has one too. I just knew about Fox's one so far.

Anyone here with experience of the RS's one?

I have used the one from Fox. It can creack/click on some frame shock combos and it is kind of a pain to remove specially considering that the tool kit is always on backorder... I have had a tool made, the thread is 1/2" fine pitch at 28tpi.

Another possible drawback on coil shock is that you might need to remove it to change coil... some machining can help as shown by Novyparts.

Is the RS kit better or worse than the kit from Fox?

 

[troy]

Why would you run that in the first place? Whats wrong with igus bushing/pin combo

 

[Redwood Mulch Chucker]

Never seen that version from RS, just the one where the whole piece bolts on the end.
It looks better than the Fox version, but who knows how it actually works.

I've used the RWC needle bearing setup with pretty good success in SC frames.

 

[Gary]

I just realised that RS has one too. I just knew about Fox's one so far.

Anyone here with experience of the RS's one?
View attachment 224111

I have used the one from Fox. It can creack/click on some frame shock combos and it is kind of a pain to remove specially considering that the tool kit is always on backorder... I have had a tool made, the thread is 1/2" fine pitch at 28tpi.

Another possible drawback on coil shock is that you might need to remove it to change coil... some machining can help as shown by Novyparts.
View attachment 224112

Is the RS kit better or worse than the kit from Fox?

Better

 

[Gary]

you're meant to use a specific RS tool to screw it together but simply wrap each end with electrical tape, place one end in a vice and use a socket to undo the other end.

If that doesn't make sense I apologise. HungoverAF

 

[Gary]

I have it fitted to my Vivid coil. and fitted a few for customers. 2 min job

 

[Gary]

RS is also cheap

 

[Westy]

Why would you run that in the first place? Whats wrong with igus bushing/pin combo

Every wannabe princess swears they can feel the pea.

 

[Gary]

Because it fits my frame and won't bend like a hollow tube with spacers can

 

[Gary]

Every wannabe princess swears they can feel the pea.

tell me about all your frame pivot bushings?

 

[Westy]

tell me about all your frame pivot bushings?

Literally 4 of the 6 FS bikes I have owned for a significant period of time have had pivot bushings in form or another. The ultimate being the two Turners that I put massive amounts of miles on for over a decade, in that time they never required replacing a single part and were smooth and slop free. My latest plastic bike has 2 pivots with bushings, and where the only pivots that did not need replacing on the last overhaul.

My first FS bike was a Santa Cruz single pivot and that thing ate shock bushings in a week. But that was a shitty design that used the shock for frame rigidity. In those situations bearings would make for a stiffer setup, in part because they spread out the load bearing bits wider. But stiffening that bushing interface would have just destroyed the shock faster. Shock pivots are narrow and on the centerline for a reason.

MTBs are pretty much the only thing I know of that uses ball bearings for non fulling rotating pivots. Bushings are a superior solution in those applications unless you have some very specific requirements. No other vehicles use bearings in suspension pivots wo why do bikes need them? Bushing require tighter alignment tolerances than bearings, bearings can cover up shitty design and manufacturing.

So shock bearings are probably great if you have a frame that puts bending moments into your shock, and you prefer to rebuild shocks instead of replacing shock bushings. One can argue that they have lower stiction, but the difference is rather small and only a special princess can notice. Also a properly ridden bike pretty much has the suspension in a constantly dynamic state so small amounts of stiction aren't a real world problem.

So do you think a Lefty's needle bearings are a better solution that a traditional fork?

 

[Gary]

in what weather did you put those massive miles in?

 

[Gary]

tell me about all your frame pivot bushings?

I was being sarcastic BTW.

 

[Westy]

in what weather did you put those massive miles in?

US east coast. Rare to ride a completely dry trail and even then stream crossings were a regular thing. Soil was clay and particularly abrasive fine sand.

 

[Gary]

do any of those words mean wet mud and rain?

I only ever had frame bushings BITD on bikes like the GT LTS, Giant ATX990 etc. they were terrible and the frame would creak and squeak all over once it'd been used in the wet and remain like that from then on.

 

[6thElement]

Impressively out of context sir!

 

[Westy]

do any of those words mean wet mud and rain?

I only ever had frame bushings BITD on bikes like the GT LTS, Giant ATX990 etc. they were terrible and the frame would creak and squeak all over once it'd been used in the wet and remain like that from then on.

Yes, that means lots of mud. Probably received more annual rainfall than you get, it just came in violent thunderstorms instead of endless drizzle.
OG suspension bikes came with terribly made bushings made with tolerances you could measure with a wooden ruler, and the solution to that was terribly made bearings pivots. Bushings are superior if not terribly made.

 

[Andeh]

The RS version is far better than the Fox one, especially if your shock requires you remove it to swap springs. No issues with mine, been running it over a year on my ebike.

 

[toodles]

Is the RS kit better or worse than the kit from Fox?

I tried to save some $$ and run the RS kit but it doesn't fit my Marz Bomber air. oops. Ended up running the Fox one after all.

Why would you run that in the first place? Whats wrong with igus bushing/pin combo

I replaced the top (sees heaps of rotation, bottom relatively static) IGUS bushing & pin on my Smuggler. Absolutely bonkers the difference it makes on that bike. I'd wager it really depends on how much rotation the eyelet goes through and how good the frame QA is. My Smuggler is pretty flexy too so maybe there was some binding going on, but just changing that one part required changing the damping setup.

 

[HardtailHack]

Literally 4 of the 6 FS bikes I have owned for a significant period of time have had pivot bushings in form or another. The ultimate being the two Turners that I put massive amounts of miles on for over a decade, in that time they never required replacing a single part and were smooth and slop free. My latest plastic bike has 2 pivots with bushings, and where the only pivots that did not need replacing on the last overhaul.

My first FS bike was a Santa Cruz single pivot and that thing ate shock bushings in a week. But that was a shitty design that used the shock for frame rigidity. In those situations bearings would make for a stiffer setup, in part because they spread out the load bearing bits wider. But stiffening that bushing interface would have just destroyed the shock faster. Shock pivots are narrow and on the centerline for a reason.

MTBs are pretty much the only thing I know of that uses ball bearings for non fulling rotating pivots. Bushings are a superior solution in those applications unless you have some very specific requirements. No other vehicles use bearings in suspension pivots wo why do bikes need them? Bushing require tighter alignment tolerances than bearings, bearings can cover up shitty design and manufacturing.

So shock bearings are probably great if you have a frame that puts bending moments into your shock, and you prefer to rebuild shocks instead of replacing shock bushings. One can argue that they have lower stiction, but the difference is rather small and only a special princess can notice. Also a properly ridden bike pretty much has the suspension in a constantly dynamic state so small amounts of stiction aren't a real world problem.

So do you think a Lefty's needle bearings are a better solution that a traditional fork?

I remember talking to an old Turner distributor and he said on his personal frames he'd have to run different thickness shims in different locations because the pivots didn't line up properly.
Can't all be winners I guess.

Also, don't assume the gender of soft people, it's hurtful to princesses.

 

[Gary]

I replaced the top (sees heaps of rotation, bottom relatively static) IGUS bushing & pin on my Smuggler. Absolutely bonkers the difference it makes on that bike. I'd wager it really depends on how much rotation the eyelet goes through and how good the frame QA is. My Smuggler is pretty flexy too so maybe there was some binding going on, but just changing that one part required changing the damping setup.

Such a princess

 

[toodles]

Such a princess

I'm such a delicate little flower.

 

[4xBoy]

I have two of these, someday I will install it.

 

[Happymtb.fr]

Thanks for the comments all of you!
I will give a try to the RS version

 

[ChrisRobin]

Wait, I just googled the RS kit and looked for pics of it in pieces. Are the two halves threaded together in the shock eyelet unlike the Fox kit that's pressed in??

If that's the case, that would make it a lot easier to pull apart.

 

[Gary]

Yes. they thread together

 

[toodles]

Thanks for the comments all of you!
I will give a try to the RS version

Dunno if you saw my post but those don't fit in the Fox Float/Marz Bomber Air. Not sure about other Fox/Marz offerings.

Not sure what shock you're trying them on

*edit* I'm sure they work on *most* shocks, just not those ones from what I tried.

 

[Happymtb.fr]

Thanks @toodles !

From a German forum
Passt: =ok

• Fox X2
• Öhlins TTX1 Air
• EXT Storia V3

Passt nicht: =not ok

• Fox DHX
• Öhlins TXC2 Air
• Rockshox Superdeluxe 25
• +fox float
• +marz bomber air

My shock is an EXT storia

 

[Andeh]

Yes, the assembly screws together. You can either use a pair of wrenches/knipex, or a low profile socket head. That does make the overall diameter a bit larger so it doesn't fit on some shocks like the Super Deluxe Air where the eyelet is very short and quickly flares to the stanchion.

Add to fit list:
RS Vivid Air
RS SD Coil (I believe Vivid Coil should work too as the main body looks the same)

 

[toodles]

Yes, the assembly screws together. You can either use a pair of wrenches/knipex, or a low profile socket head. That does make the overall diameter a bit larger so it doesn't fit on some shocks like the Super Deluxe Air where the eyelet is very short and quickly flares to the stanchion.

Add to fit list:
RS Vivid Air
RS SD Coil (I believe Vivid Coil should work too as the main body looks the same)

The Superdeluxe Air has the bearing end option with the same spacing (thats what came on my NP Mega) but to change to that you need a new damper body during a rebuild