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A Couple of Road Rage Tales

N8 v2.0

Not the sharpest tool in the shed
Oct 18, 2002
11,003
149
The Cleft of Venus
...just damn...


A Fred's Eye View: Close encounters of the angry kind
VeloNews | February 21, 2005 | Fred Dreier

RECKLESS DRIVING: Any person who drives any motor vehicle, bicycle, or motorized bicycle in such a manner as to indicate either a wanton or willful disregard for the safety of persons or property is guilty of reckless driving.
-Colorado Driver Handbook. Pg. 24 sect. 12.5

You hear the grumble of an approaching engine and ease closer to the shoulder's white line, only to have your eardrums shattered by a long horn honk and an angry yell. Instinctively, you raise your hand and offer the irate driver's rearview mirror the one-fingered international sign of goodwill, and a nice ear to ear grin. Brake lights flash, and the car slows. Your heartbeat quickens as your mind rushes through a thousand frantic questions.

Is he gonna stop?

Will he get out?

Does he have any weapons in that pickup truck?

Where's my frame pump?

Are we gonna rumble?

Every cyclist who has ever pushed the pedals for more than week has had his/her fair share of near-misses, close-calls, and oh-my-god-I-almost-died run-ins with irate horn-loving motorists. More often than not, however, the encounters end in a similar fashion -motorist and cyclist exchange a hail of unpleasant language and facial expressions, then both parties continue on their merry way, simultaneously saying, "That guy's lucky I didn't open up my can of whoop-ass" to their respected companions.

But what happens when the altercations lead to more than just a little f-word action? What happens when the gloves do come off and carnage ensues? Who is the reckless one -motorist or cyclist?

While we cyclists, being the more-vulnerable of the two parties, would like to believe that the motorist should always be at fault, this is not always the case.

Unfortunately, last Saturday in Boulder we saw two distinct instances of driver-motorist altercations that both led to violence -not to mention the destruction of two bikes and one windshield.

Also unfortunate, repeated calls to the Boulder County Sherriff's office were not returned, and therefore the police's official stance in both instances is not entirely clear.

The one thing that is clear, however, is that most bikes can't survive a battle with a car.

Case 1: TIAA-CREF vs. Guy in Pickup Truck
It was the tail-end of team TIAA-CREF's weeklong training camp, and the boys were heading up to Carter Lake when they encountered an irate pickup driver. The truck swerved alongside the group, then swung sharply into a driveway, narrowly missing striking 23-year old Chad Hartley. The driver's wife got out of the truck and went into the house.

When team coach Colby Pearce, a 2004 Olympian and Pan-Am games bronze medalist, stopped to have a word, the driver revved his engines, hit the gas and sped toward the now-dismounted cyclist.

Now, most motorists would think twice about running down a cyclist after pulling out of the driveway, but not this specimen.

"The guy came right at me and from how fast he was going he had no intentions of stopping," Pearce said at TIAA-CREF's Denver team presentation. Pearce jumped out of the way to safety, but his four-day old Javelin Amarone wasn't so lucky. The bike met the pickup head on, bounced off of the bumper, and landed in a twisted mess in the road.

"The saddle is destroyed, the bars are totally bent, both wheels are taco-ed, and the cranks are pretty messed up," said Pearce.

Repeated angry knocks on the driver's door went unanswered, so Pearce went to the cops.

"They asked me if I wanted to press charges, and, yeah I did," he said.

According to Pearce, the driver is looking at two felony charges, but as far as we know he has not been charged with the wrongful-death of a sweet, sweet ride -yet .

Case 2: Bicycle vs. Windshield
After the local Saturday group ride, three cyclists -Trek VW's Nick Martin, Chris Hopwood, and Dwight "Whitey" DuBroux, both members on the local Team Giant mountain bike racing team -were heading back into town when a honking, screaming Jetta passed within inches of them. The trio caught up to the car at a stoplight, and some ugliness ensued.

"The lady driving the car started yelling, and then the dude in the passenger seat got out of the car and he was pretty massive, but he got back in," said Martin. "Whitey got in front of the car, and the lady told him if he went before her he should wait and see what happens."

When the light did turn green and DeBroux started pedaling, the Jetta rammed him from behind, knocking him off his bike, taco-ing his rear wheel, and mashing his wattage meter.

The collision stopped traffic, and another group of cyclists gathered around to watch. DeBroux picked up his LeMond from under the car and swung it down on the Jetta's windshield twice, the second time shattering the glass with the seat post.

"I felt like I was acting out of self defense," he said. "I thought at worst I would have to buy her a new windshield."

The authorities felt differently, however, and after the Sheriff arrived on the scene, DeBroux was cuffed, charged with Criminal Mischief and Disorderly Conduct.

When Martin and Hopwood asked the officer why the motorist was not charged as well, he responded that, despite the witnesses and crunched bike, there was not sufficient evidence of any wrongdoing.

Debroux spent the rest of the day in his Shammy at the Sheriff's department, and his bike is still impounded and crunched.

So where does one draw the line in cyclist vs. motorist road rage? With this last case in mind, it seems clear that, because no definite state statutes (I checked) address what to do in instances of biker vs. driver fisticuffs, the matters fall into a legal gray area, and therefore are best battled out by our friends, the lawyers - DeBroux already has his on call, claiming the act was in self-defense.

I can see the defense strategy already: "C'mon, your honor. This is a high-performance machine we're talking about. It's got full Dura-Ace."

Still, with our trusty definition of Reckless Driving as council, it seems obvious to me that in these two stories there exist two automotive parties who are guilty of recklessly driving with willful disregard for the safety of cool cycling equipment-pickup truck guy for recklessly driving over a shiny new bike and the Jetta queen for recklessly ruining a rear wheel and a PowerTap.

And poor Whitey?

Well, I'd like to say that if I had been in his position, I would have gotten up coolly, written down the license plate number, and started walking home.

But hey, what do I know? Every run in I've ever had with a horn honker has ended the same way -me telling a buddy, "Yeah, I could have kicked his ass."
 

mack

Turbo Monkey
Feb 26, 2003
3,674
0
Colorado
PFT, roadies... He should have just grabbed the lady out of the car and given her a beat down.
 

sanjuro

Tube Smuggler
Sep 13, 2004
17,373
0
SF
Then there would have been another case of assault added to his list of charges...

Unfortunately, like most accidents, if you want to start something, best to make it hit-and-run. Getting almost hit is literally an inch from death, but I have seen too many roadies act like they are Rambo because they wear lycra.

Look at it this way. If you are a cop, and you roll up on an accident and you see one driver punching out the other. After you arrested that driver for battery, would you believe him when he told you the accident was the other person's fault?

And I am not telling any rider to act differently. If you want to get up in someone's face, that's cool. Just keep in mind you have no legal bearing, and you should take off after you smack down the driver.
 

mack

Turbo Monkey
Feb 26, 2003
3,674
0
Colorado
I carry a knife in my pocket when i ride, not because of drivers or anything, but there just usefull to have. It is more of a habbit that i developed when i used to live in New Haven.... Tires are expensive and so are tow trucks :devil: :nuts:
 

dhriderII

Monkey
Nov 26, 2004
365
0
good ol' culpep
i agree there with the beat down on the jetta gueen... i mean think about it, a riding shoe esp. one with a large size cleet is gonna HURT.. most the time here in good ol va i carry pepper spray and if i where given enought time i would like some smoke bombs thoose would make it really hard to see inside of a car..
 

narlus

Eastcoast Softcore
Staff member
Nov 7, 2001
24,658
65
behind the viewfinder
mack said:
PFT, roadies... He should have just grabbed the lady out of the car and given her a beat down.
After the local Saturday group ride, three cyclists -Trek VW's Nick Martin, Chris Hopwood, and Dwight "Whitey" DuBroux, both members on the local Team Giant mountain bike racing team
 

mack

Turbo Monkey
Feb 26, 2003
3,674
0
Colorado
narlus said:
After the local Saturday group ride, three cyclists -Trek VW's Nick Martin, Chris Hopwood, and Dwight "Whitey" DuBroux, both members on the local Team Giant mountain bike racing team

Yeah, Giant mnt bike team, that doesnt count. :D :D

No, just kidding i own a Giant :oink:
 

chicodude

The Spooninator
Mar 28, 2004
1,054
2
Paradise
mack said:
I carry a knife in my pocket when i ride, not because of drivers or anything, but there just usefull to have. It is more of a habbit that i developed when i used to live in New Haven.... Tires are expensive and so are tow trucks :devil: :nuts:


Everyone is so badass until time actually comes to do something about it.


Me? If he didn't hit me, I just continue on with my ride. Luckly, I've never been hit before.
 

mack

Turbo Monkey
Feb 26, 2003
3,674
0
Colorado
chicodude01 said:
Everyone is so badass until time actually comes to do something about it.


Me? If he didn't hit me, I just continue on with my ride. Luckly, I've never been hit before.

True, True. I dont think i would actually stab any one, but its more of a think twice type deal.
 

jon cross

Monkey
Jan 27, 2004
159
0
Banner Elk, NC
I'm not gonna lie, while the woman in the Jetta is off limits (can't hit the ladies, it's a personal thing) I could definitely see taking a swing at a cop who started to arrest me after I'd been run down. I'm not usually much of a rager, but damn, if some little whore runs me over and I get in trouble for throwing my mess of a bike at her car, you better believe I'm going to be PISSSED. If he isn't like me and didn't freak out at the pig who arrested him (actual law enforcement professionals take no offense, this guy is clearly a pig, not a cop- and there is a big difference) then he should contest that bs all the way up the chain of command. If he has a wrecked bike and a witness vs her wrecked windshield and witness- how is one not prosecutable because of a lack of evidence? It's vehicular assault at best, willfully trying to destroy someone on a bike like that might be considered attempted murder by the right judge as well.
 

binary visions

The voice of reason
Jun 13, 2002
22,145
1,237
NC
jon cross said:
If he has a wrecked bike and a witness vs her wrecked windshield and witness- how is one not prosecutable because of a lack of evidence?
Uhh, maybe because he can't prove he didn't swerve into the middle of the road in front of her, but she sure as hell can prove that the bike didn't leap up from under her car and jump through the windshield? :rolleyes:

I'm not saying it's right, but that's life.

jon cross said:
actual law enforcement professionals take no offense
Are you kidding? You think a cop, "pig" or otherwise, isn't going to take some serious offense if you start swinging at him?
 

jon cross

Monkey
Jan 27, 2004
159
0
Banner Elk, NC
I just meant that while he can't prove he didn't swerve in front of her, she can't prove that he did- it seems that it's just one word vs the other, so why should hers weigh more?

I also didn't mean that the cop shouldn't be offended if I, in this situation, laid him out- I meant that while most officers are really good guys- there are a few asshats out there and I call them pigs. A good cop won't like to hear another called a pig, but in this case, I don't really care. I just didn't want to give the impression that I was one of those 13 yr old, mad at my father and the world kind of jerks who run around hating authority because it's trendy to do so. Basically, no offense to real cops, but this one was a tool and deserves to have his package run throug a turbine engine. Is that more clear?
 

SkaredShtles

Michael Bolton
Sep 21, 2003
67,303
13,866
In a van.... down by the river
jon cross said:
I just meant that while he can't prove he didn't swerve in front of her, she can't prove that he did- it seems that it's just one word vs the other, so why should hers weigh more?
That particular point would be her word against his. The bike through the windshield was pretty cut and dried, though. That was B.V.'s point.

-S.S.-
 

binary visions

The voice of reason
Jun 13, 2002
22,145
1,237
NC
jon cross said:
why should hers weigh more?
Because she wasn't the one who was there swinging a 20lb. piece of steel like a weapon when the cops arrived.

My point with the previous post is what S.S. said.

jon cross said:
Basically, no offense to real cops, but this one was a tool and deserves to have his package run throug a turbine engine. Is that more clear?
Ah. Gotcha. So, what you're saying is that you were there in this situation, and understand all the circumstances outside of the one sentence written in this prejudice news article. Do you think a writer for VeloNews is going to cast the rider in an unfavorable light?

What if the rider flew into a rage when the cops arrived and started cursing and ranting? What if the rider was threatening bodily harm to the driver of the Jetta? What if he was threatening the cop?

You have no idea what happened in this situation and no idea whether the cop was acting like a "pig" or doing a professional job.
 

sanjuro

Tube Smuggler
Sep 13, 2004
17,373
0
SF
If my bike was run over, I would be mad as hell, particularily if I was the one arrested.

I have played the "block the car" game. The last time, it was a truck who pulled into the hunting store next to my bike shop.

Part of me wanted to ride over and put my fist into his car window. But all that happened was some honking. An appropriate response was the finger, but not much more.

I have heard plenty of talk about knifes, stakes, mace, etc. Get real. I cut a pedestrian off in my car, and he slapped the trunk of my car. I was so mad, I wanted to run him down. The pedestrian made his point about how close I was...
 

-BB-

I broke all the rules, but somehow still became mo
Sep 6, 2001
4,254
28
Livin it up in the O.C.
When I rode the Road (both as a rodie, and as a messanger) I had to slap my share of hoods, and kick my share of doors.

I also got hit 5 times in one summer, and ran over one pedestrian that thought she only had to look one direction when crossing a one way street.
:rolleyes:

She was theis fat chick with TIGHT pumps on. She yelled "Look... MY foot is all swolen!!"
I replied, they BOTH look swolen to me... :confused: " :devil:
 

dh girlie

MISS MISSY (geek)
-BB- said:
When I rode the Road (both as a rodie, and as a messanger) I had to slap my share of hoods, and kick my share of doors.

I also got hit 5 times in one summer, and ran over one pedestrian that thought she only had to look one direction when crossing a one way street.
:rolleyes:

She was theis fat chick with TIGHT pumps on. She yelled "Look... MY foot is all swolen!!"
I replied, they BOTH look swolen to me... :confused: " :devil:
Did they look like pickled pigs feet?
 

dhriderII

Monkey
Nov 26, 2004
365
0
good ol' culpep
i think every fat person should be issued a walmart bike and forced to ride 3 hours a day every day.... there are getting to be way to many over weight people now... damn u lazy people.
 

dhriderII

Monkey
Nov 26, 2004
365
0
good ol' culpep
SkaredShtles said:
Why all the hate, man? :confused:

-S.S.-

my riding really conflicts with my sn, im actally on my road bike more then i'm on my dh bike anymore, generally 1-2 hours each day on the skinny tires... rain or shine... except for saturday witch is a rest day. thanks anyways tho.
 

llkoolkeg

Ranger LL
Sep 5, 2001
4,335
15
in da shed, mon, in da shed
dhriderII said:
i think every fat person should be issued a walmart bike and forced to ride 3 hours a day every day.... there are getting to be way to many over weight people now... damn u lazy people.
:rolleyes:

dhriderII said:
my riding really conflicts with my sn, im actally on my road bike more then i'm on my dh bike anymore, generally 1-2 hours each day on the skinny tires... rain or shine... except for saturday witch is a rest day. thanks anyways tho.
:confused:

Why do you interrupt a perfectly good thread about road rage with your inane editorialism? I frankly think stupid people should have to read books three hours a day appropriate to their comprehensional abilities- "Raggedy Ann & Andy" should prove a fitting challenge for you.
 

dhriderII

Monkey
Nov 26, 2004
365
0
good ol' culpep
alright i apologize for the comment i made about fat people, and i can offer up a story of road rage to the cyclist gods. couple of months ago durring the last summer, me and 2 other guys where out for a good 50 or so mile ride, coming back from madison (and anyone who lives in va knows madison is full of redneck retards but does not include every person that lives there) well we had a station wagion pass us with its horn held down loud and proud, it then stopped 3 driveways ahead of us turned around and charged towards us in our lane, swerved out then slammed on the brakes whipped the car around and passed us with horn again, it did this maybe 4 times, luckly we remember the plate #'s called the police and placed charges against them of reckless endangerment, if i remember correctly they got a pretty hefty fine. thats when i decided to carry peperspray with me on every ride.
 

mack

Turbo Monkey
Feb 26, 2003
3,674
0
Colorado
:stupid: Im not saying i hate fat people, but i hate fat people who blame their fatness on other things and dont take personal responsibilty for their Burger King habbits.
 

llkoolkeg

Ranger LL
Sep 5, 2001
4,335
15
in da shed, mon, in da shed
mack said:
:stupid: Im not saying i hate fat people, but i hate fat people who blame their fatness on other things and dont take personal responsibilty for their Burger King habbits.
:rolleyes: deja vu :rolleyes:
llkoolkeg said:
:confused:

Why do you interrupt a perfectly good thread about road rage with your inane editorialism? I frankly think stupid people should have to read books three hours a day appropriate to their comprehensional abilities- "Raggedy Ann & Andy" should prove a fitting challenge for you.
Now I'm having to quote myself like some sort of idiot! What the hell does any of this have to do with road rage?
 

llkoolkeg

Ranger LL
Sep 5, 2001
4,335
15
in da shed, mon, in da shed
dhriderII said:
what does it matter, relax a little over there
What does it matter? I read a stupid comment and responded. I read a followup stupid comment from someone else and responded to it. I am not the thread police, or anything, but when I see stupid comments, I call people on them here just as I do anywhere else. I don't believe I need to relax and just be quiet when people make stupid comments, otherwise how will that person come to realize they made a stupid comment at all? The next time you hear me say something stupid like, "..people w/o a college education are useless dolts," feel free to call me to the carpet over my stupid comment. It's not like I'm sitting here seething in a stew over it. :confused:
 

dhriderII

Monkey
Nov 26, 2004
365
0
good ol' culpep
...shakes head in shame... get out and ride your bike more, please, it does a wonder for the soul, provided u are not trying to call out people on your bike and not have a good time while your out. life is to short to point out all the things that are wrong it, enjoy it while its here. u've only got one chance, make it the best while u've got it.
 

-BB-

I broke all the rules, but somehow still became mo
Sep 6, 2001
4,254
28
Livin it up in the O.C.
llkoolkeg said:
What does it matter? I read a stupid comment and responded. I read a followup stupid comment from someone else and responded to it. I am not the thread police, or anything, but when I see stupid comments, I call people on them here just as I do anywhere else. I don't believe I need to relax and just be quiet when people make stupid comments, otherwise how will that person come to realize they made a stupid comment at all? The next time you hear me say something stupid like, "..people w/o a college education are useless dolts," feel free to call me to the carpet over my stupid comment. It's not like I'm sitting here seething in a stew over it. :confused:

I have no problem with people of any size... the only thing I don't like is people that complain about it and don't DO anything about it.

Too big, to small? doenst' matter. Either accept it, or do something.
So it isn't people's size I don't like... it is people that complain.
 

llkoolkeg

Ranger LL
Sep 5, 2001
4,335
15
in da shed, mon, in da shed
dhriderII said:
...shakes head in shame... get out and ride your bike more, please, it does a wonder for the soul, provided u are not trying to call out people on your bike and not have a good time while your out. life is to short to point out all the things that are wrong it, enjoy it while its here. u've only got one chance, make it the best while u've got it.
If I didn't have to work today, I would be riding my bike more. I rode all day yesterday; doesn't that count? I ride with my friends and have a great time doing so, but if one of them made a stupid blanket comment, I tell them so. I appreciate your words of wisdom on how I should live my life, but if you find yourself silently going along when those about you say stupid things, I suggest to you that more courage is needed and less quiet acquiescence just to "keep the peace".
 

llkoolkeg

Ranger LL
Sep 5, 2001
4,335
15
in da shed, mon, in da shed
-BB- said:
I have no problem with people of any size... the only thing I don't like is people that complain about it and don't DO anything about it.

Too big, to small? doenst' matter. Either accept it, or do something.
So it isn't people's size I don't like... it is people that complain.
I agree with you. People who complain about a situation yet make to effort whatsoever to correct it themselves are likewise idiots. We see that a lot around here with regard to peoples' inability to communicate with the written word.
 

Blieb

Chimp
Apr 14, 2003
66
0
In Yo Face!
I actually haven't had that many run ins with cars.

I do remember a lady who came right up on my rear and honked at me, scaring the crap out of me. I caught her at a light (I was on my mtn bike) ... I told her never do that again. She started yapping nonsense, and I just kept repeating to not honk like that at me again.

I had the pre-fight shakes, and it sure made my ride more intense.

I haven't flipped out, but I can imagine a few things a motorist could do to make me lose it. I just hope it never comes to that :)