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A Few Things From the Bike Shop.

Nick

My name is Nick
Sep 21, 2001
24,069
14,723
where the trails are
:rofl: http://www.craigslist.org/about/best/sea/1192150038.html

Whoo-hoo Seattle, the sun is out! Let's discuss a few things before you fumble with swapping the unused ski rack for the unused bike rack on the Subaru.

So yes, you've noticed the sun is out, and hey!- maybe it would be cool to to some bike riding. Let's keep in mind that the sun came out of all 600,000 of us, so for the most part, you're not the only one who noticed. Please remember that when you walk into my shop on a bright, sunny Saturday morning. It will save you from looking like a complete twat that huffs "Why are there so many people here?"

Are we all on the same page now about it being sunny outside? Have we all figured out that we're not the only clever people that feel sunny days are good for bike riding? Great. I want to kiss all of you on your forehead for sharing this moment with me. Put your vitamin D starved fingers in mine, and we'll move on together to some pointers that will make life easier.

SOME POINTERS FOR THE PHONE:

- I don't know what size of bike you need. The only thing that I can tell over the phone is that you sound fat. I don't care how tall you are. I don't care how long your inseam is. Don't complain to me that you don't want to come ALL THE WAY down to the bike shop to get fitted for a bike. I have two hundred bikes in my inventory. I will find one that fits you. Whether you come from the north or the south, my shop is downhill. Pretend you're going to smell a fart, ball up, and roll your fat ass down here.

- Don't get high and call me. Write it down, call me later. When I have four phone lines ringing, and a herdlet
of people waiting for help, I can't deal with you sitting there "uuuuhhh"-ing and "uuummm"-ing while your brain tries to put together some cheeto-xbox-fixie conundrum. We didn't get disconnected, I left you on hold to figure your **** out.

-I really do need to see your bike to know what is wrong with it. You've already figured out that when you car makes a noise, the mechanic needs to see it. When your TV goes blank, a technician needs to see it. I can tell you, if there is one thing I've learned from you ****ing squirrels, it's that "doesn't shift right" means your bike could need a slight cable adjustment, or you might just need to stop backing into it with the Subaru. Bring it in, I'll let you know for sure.

- No, I don't know how much a good bike costs. For some, spending $500 dollars is a kingly sum. For others, $500 won't buy you one good wheel. You really need to have an idea of what you want, because every one of you raccoons "doesn't want to spend too much".

FOR YOU INVENTIVE TYPES AND DO-IT-YOURSELFERS:

- Just because you think is should exist, doesn't mean that it does. I know that to you, a 14 inch quill stem makes perfect sense, but what makes more sense is buying a bike that fits you, not trying to make your mountain bike that was too small for you to begin with into a comfort bike.

- If some twat on some message board somewhere says that you can use the lockring from your bottom bracket as a lockring for a fixie conversion doesn't mean that A: you can, or B: you should. Please listen to me on this stuff, I really do have your best interests at heart.

- I love that you have the enthusiasm to build yourself a recumbent in the off season. That does not mean however, that I share your enthusiasm; ergo I won't do the "final tweaks" for you. You figure out why that Sram shifter and that Shimano rear derailleur don't work together. While we're at it, you recumbent people scare me a little. Don't bring that lumbering ****ing thing anywhere near me.

A DEDICATION TO ALL THE HIPSTER DUCHEBAGS:

-If you ****heads had any money, you wouldn't NEED a vintage Poo-zhow to get laid. Go have an ironic mustache growing contest in front of American Apparel, so that I can continue selling $300 bikes to fatties, which is what keeps the lights on.

- Being made in the 80's may make something cool, but that doesn't automatically make something good. The reason that no one has ridden that "vintage" Murray is because it's ****. It was **** in the 80's, a trend it carried proudly through the 90's, and rallied with into the '00's. What I mean to say is, no, I can't make it work better. It's still ****, even with more air in the tires.

SO YOU'RE GONNA BUY A BIKE:

Good for you! Biking is awesome. It's easy, it's fun, it's good for you. I want you to bike, I really do. To that end, I am here to help you.

-Your co-worker that's "really into biking" knows **** all. Stop asking for his advice. He could care less about you having the right bike. He wants to validate his bike purchase(s) through you. He also wants to sleep with you, and wear matching bike shorts with you.

- You're not a triathlete. You're not. If you were, you wouldn't be here, and we both know it.

- You're not a racer. If you were, I'd know you already, and you wouldn't be here, and we both know it.

- So you want a bike that you can ride to work, goes really fast, is good for that triathlon you're doing this summer (snicker), is good on trails and mud, and costs less than $300. Yeah. Listen, I want a car that can go 200 miles an hour, tow a boat, has room for five adults, is easy to parallel park but can carry plywood, gets 60mpg, and only costs $3,000. I also want a unicorn to blow me. What are we even talking about here? Oh yeah. Listen, bikes can be fast, light, cheap and comfortable. Pick two, and we're all good.

ABOUT YOUR KIDS:

Your kids are amazing. Sure are. No one else has kids as smart, able, funny or as good looking as you. Nope. Never see THAT around here.

- I have no idea how long you kid will be able to use this bike. As it seems to me, your precious is a little retarded, and can't even use the damn thing now. More likely, your budding genius is going to leave the bike in the driveway where you will Subaru the bike to death LONG before the nose picker outgrows the bike.

- Stop being so jumpy. I am not a molester. You people REALLY watch too much TV. When I hold the back of the bike while your kid is on it, it's not because I get a thrill from *almost* having my hand on kid butt, it's because kids are unpredictable, and generally take off whenever possible, usually not in the direction you think they might go. Listen, if I were going to do anything bad to your kids, I'd feed them to sharks, because sharks are ****ING AWESOME.


I hope this helps, and have fun this summer riding your kick-ass bike!
 

jdcamb

Tool Time!
Feb 17, 2002
19,841
8,442
Nowhere Man!
My employee seems cocky to you....Yes he is... He makes $8/hr and he wasted 30 minutes talking to you for no other reason then you where lonely and driving by our shop. We all could care less how much your wife allows you to spend on your bikes... Go ride it while we are in here working....
 

BurlyShirley

Rex Grossman Will Rise Again
Jul 4, 2002
19,180
17
TN
...and why do LBS's have a bad rap around here again? I guess it couldn't possibly have anything to do with the obvious contempt toward customers by shop employees, exactly like that displayed in this thread.

Funny stuff though, I admit.
 

Greggah

Motorboat
Oct 9, 2008
273
6
Gonic, NH
Thats awesome. It needed to be said and a copy should be given to anyone who has ever bought anything that requires servicing from any place.

I work for a place that sells BMW car parts over the phone/internet and most BMW drivers (especially 6 series owners) are generally just as obnoxious.........
 

Da Peach

Outwitted by a rodent
Jul 2, 2002
13,683
4,912
North Van
Thats awesome. It needed to be said and a copy should be given to anyone who has ever bought anything that requires servicing from any place.

I work for a place that sells BMW car parts over the phone/internet and most BMW drivers (especially 6 series owners) are generally just as obnoxious.........
That's funny. I've alwways thought that the 6 series were Douche-mobiles...
 

J-Dubs

Monkey
Jul 10, 2006
700
1
Salem, MA
I've used a bb lock ring on my fixed gear bikes for many years. Applied correctly and with some red lock tight, it's good. That solution is not something shops should endorse, but a capable home mechanic can make it work safely.

My father loves his recumbent bike. It allows him to ride more often and farther than his old bones would permit on a normal bike. Expand your horizons.
 

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
86,005
24,551
media blackout
I've used a bb lock ring on my fixed gear bikes for many years. Applied correctly and with some red lock tight, it's good. That solution is not something shops should endorse, but a capable home mechanic can make it work safely.

My father loves his recumbent bike. It allows him to ride more often and farther than his old bones would permit on a normal bike. Expand your horizons.
Never again are you allowed to discuss "your fathers old bones" and "expanding horizons" in the same paragraph.
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
54,457
20,254
Sleazattle
Funny. Reality is bike shop jobs are still retail jobs which are pure hell. Everyone should be allowed to rant and complain about customers, just don't do it to their faces.
 

HAB

Chelsea from Seattle
Apr 28, 2007
11,580
2,006
Seattle
Funny. Reality is bike shop jobs are still retail jobs which are pure hell. Everyone should be allowed to rant and complain about customers, just don't do it to their faces.
For the most part I actually enjoy working in a shop. Occasionally you get a douchenozzle customer that you want to beat over the head with their bike, but that's rare. And in those cases we'll only make fun of them after they leave, never to their face, at least not explicitly.

Case in point: guy comes into the shop with a bike he'd just had in for a tune up, demanding to see the mechanic who'd done the work. That would be me. He's visibly angry. I ask him what the problem is. He tells me that his bike won't shift into the small chainring. I say OK, let me put it in the stand and take a look. I do so, and the bike shifts flawlessly. I demonstrate this to him. Despite seeing in shift very nicely, he insists something is wrong. I ask if I can ride the bike and see if I can find anything when it's under load. He agrees, and I do so, and still the bike shifts beautifully. He now gets even more angry, says that surely he's not the first person to come into the shop with a derailleur that doesn't work, and that if I can't diagnose it I should be fired on the spot. I point out that it's hard to diagnose a problem that doesn't exist, and suggest that the only thing I can think of is that a small piece of dirt or something got lodged on the lip that the limit screw contacts, preventing the derailleur from moving over properly. I ask that he ride the bike and see if it'll shift, confidant that it will after looking it over. He refuses, and demands to see my boss. I'm call my boss over who looks the bike over and comes to exactly the same conclusion as I did. At this point the guy says something under his breath about ****ty service and leaves.
 

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
86,005
24,551
media blackout
For the most part I actually enjoy working in a shop. Occasionally you get a douchenozzle customer that you want to beat over the head with their bike, but that's rare. And in those cases we'll only make fun of them after they leave, never to their face, at least not explicitly.

Case in point: guy comes into the shop with a bike he'd just had in for a tune up, demanding to see the mechanic who'd done the work. That would be me. He's visibly angry. I ask him what the problem is. He tells me that his bike won't shift into the small chainring. I say OK, let me put it in the stand and take a look. I do so, and the bike shifts flawlessly. I demonstrate this to him. Despite seeing in shift very nicely, he insists something is wrong. I ask if I can ride the bike and see if I can find anything when it's under load. He agrees, and I do so, and still the bike shifts beautifully. He now gets even more angry, says that surely he's not the first person to come into the shop with a derailleur that doesn't work, and that if I can't diagnose it I should be fired on the spot. I point out that it's hard to diagnose a problem that doesn't exist, and suggest that the only thing I can think of is that a small piece of dirt or something got lodged on the lip that the limit screw contacts, preventing the derailleur from moving over properly. I ask that he ride the bike and see if it'll shift, confidant that it will after looking it over. He refuses, and demands to see my boss. I'm call my boss over who looks the bike over and comes to exactly the same conclusion as I did. At this point the guy says something under his breath about ****ty service and leaves.
When I wrenched we'd get guys like this on occasion. Absolutely convinced that there was something wrong and the mechanics had fvcked it up. On one particular day, after b*tching at our shop manager, angry customer got to talk to the shop owner. The shop owner is a very calm, level headed guy. Very reasonable and was willing to work with the guy to make him happy. The guy goes on a tirade about how the mechanics were incompetent and everything in the shop is outrageously overpriced. The manager then calmly tells the guy to take his bike, get the fvck out of his shop, and to never come back since he's obviously too smart to be dealing with us.
 

reflux

Turbo Monkey
Mar 18, 2002
4,617
2
G14 Classified
Based on the prior two posts above, I'm reminded of some recent service to my road bike.

They trued(sp?) the wheels, but didn't do a good job at fixing the shifting. Coming up to an incline, I put the rear der into the big cog, only to have the chain lodge itself in between the cassette and spokes. So much for the wheel true.

Oddly enough, the shop went out of business a month or so after the service. If they hadn't, I would've flipped my ****e.
 

proglife

Monkey
Apr 18, 2002
339
0
Annapolis, MD
pretty hilarious

They trued(sp?) the wheels, but didn't do a good job at fixing the shifting. Coming up to an incline, I put the rear der into the big cog, only to have the chain lodge itself in between the cassette and spokes. So much for the wheel true.

Oddly enough, the shop went out of business a month or so after the service. If they hadn't, I would've flipped my ****e.
cliff's notes for the following post - I think I'm a genius, am a little arrogant with regards to this topic and am saying **** you've read hundreds of times on here

My LBS experiences have been about 25% positive recently (which is an improvement). I understand you can't pay these people a lot of money and survive, but I do expect LBS guys to be at least as knowledgeable as I am. I'm just a dumbass who spends too much time obsessing over my hobbies, but I feel more qualified than the person helping me 90% of the time. I swear to god, if I didn't know what I was talking about, I'd walk out of the LBS with the wrong part 100% of the time. I feel bad for the guys who just assume the guy they're talking to knows what they're talking about.

Every time I leave a bike shop around here, I consider taking an impossible pay cut just so someone in this town can experience service from someone who actually cares, will be enthusiastic, will make an effort to get you the actual correct part and not get pissed off when they have to step away from facebook to help the only customer in the shop.

I might be expecting too much, but if I'm not paying a huge markup for someone's expertise or ability to at least give me the right part, what am I paying it for?
 

HAB

Chelsea from Seattle
Apr 28, 2007
11,580
2,006
Seattle
Based on the prior two posts above, I'm reminded of some recent service to my road bike.

They trued(sp?) the wheels, but didn't do a good job at fixing the shifting. Coming up to an incline, I put the rear der into the big cog, only to have the chain lodge itself in between the cassette and spokes. So much for the wheel true.

Oddly enough, the shop went out of business a month or so after the service. If they hadn't, I would've flipped my ****e.
See, the difference there is that they actually fvcked up. The guy I'm talking about had nothing wrong with his bike, as evidenced by the fact that all he could do was insist that it didn't work. He couldn't actually demonstrate this phantom problem of his.


Since I work in a shop, I do all my own wrenching, and rarely go into any other shops. Hearing all these horror stories, I have to wonder what kind of fvcking morons other shops are hiring. The shop I'm at has a great reputation in the area, we get people driving several hours to come see us, passing by other shops, and we hear "_____ told me to come here" all the time. I'd like to think we're a bit above average when it comes to customer service and mechanical ability.
 

maddog17

Turbo Monkey
Jan 20, 2008
2,817
106
Methuen, Mass. U.S.A.
Hearing all these horror stories, I have to wonder what kind of fvcking morons other shops are hiring.
the phrase "you get what you paid for" comes to mind. some owners don't get it that in order to keep people coming back, service for the bike they just bought can be just as important as the price they paid for it. i don't work at a "real" bike shop, i work pt at a Dicks Sporting Goods. when i started they guy they had in the shop was a real moron. now for those of you that have been to a Dicks, you know they dont sell the highest quality bikes. and you know that what we sell isn't going to be built the greatest either. so they need a bit of work when they come in. this guy couldn't do the most basic of things which is a real pain since these bikes should be ready to go out the door. so you can imagine the hassel it is to try and sell something and it doesnt work right. so in the end we got a guy back who worked there b4, and i knew who he was. he was working for Parlee b4 he got laid off and needed a job. he's perfect for what we sell, and there are no more problems now. they had to pay him a little more than the last guy, but sales are thru the roof and they have plenty of repair work on top of it. there were 4 of us who told the mgr and store mgr to rehire this guy because he's worth it.
 

demo 9

Turbo Monkey
Jan 31, 2007
5,910
46
north jersey
Something worth noting. I work at a Great lbs. amazing mechanics, good service, everything. But what i do realize, if i bring in my bike to get work done to it. Alot of the mechanics don't know what is going on with it as best as i do. (i am not better, but nobody knows your bike like YOU) My bike has a extremely difficult chain guide setup with extra spacers to shim it out and allow clearance for a big sprocket. Being a mechanic, you would definitely not think to rig it up how i have it and probably wouldn't realize it wont work the normal way until you try. Just something worth noting for people that bring difficult or "uncommonly setup" bikes
 

JohnE

filthy rascist
May 13, 2005
13,450
1,978
Front Range, dude...
Been there, done that...got the t-shirt. But...

How many wrenches out there have been formally trained in both bicycle mechanics and customer service? One of the pluses in the big box stores (Performance, REI etc...) is that they often invest time/money in their people in training them how to deal with both bikes and people. Often it seems that smaller lbs-s hire the local shop rats who will work cheap and are either someones pal or kid or seem like they have an aptitude.

I know there are formal training programs out there (Barnetts?), how many of you current wrenches have had the opportunity to partake of one or more?
 

pigboy

in a galaxy far, far away
when my cell phone rings and i see that it is one of my customers I usually cringe.

often I dump them into voicemail. which is cowardly, but it is fun to punish them for making my phone ring.

no I should not be dealing with the public on a regular basis.

My name is Bernie Ecclestone, and I'm an alcoholic....
 

HAB

Chelsea from Seattle
Apr 28, 2007
11,580
2,006
Seattle
Been there, done that...got the t-shirt. But...

How many wrenches out there have been formally trained in both bicycle mechanics and customer service? One of the pluses in the big box stores (Performance, REI etc...) is that they often invest time/money in their people in training them how to deal with both bikes and people. Often it seems that smaller lbs-s hire the local shop rats who will work cheap and are either someones pal or kid or seem like they have an aptitude.

I know there are formal training programs out there (Barnetts?), how many of you current wrenches have had the opportunity to partake of one or more?
Sorta. There's a volunteer shop in my town that takes donations of used bikes and fixes them up. I was a regular there for about 4 years before I got a job at a real shop. They have classes there, but I never actually took one, just hung around and learned the ropes. The guy that ran the place saw that I had some aptitude for it and really helped me out a ton, taught me stuff way above and beyond what the classes did. I was facing BB shells, building wheels, etc, even running the shop for an hour or so if he needed to run an errand by the time I was 13. Then when I trued to get my first real shop job, the owner had me come in once a week for a month or so, and do some work under his very direct supervision to see what I could do. He told me years later that he knew I was a cut above the average shop rat the first day I was there when we built up a tiny kid sized road bike, and he asked me why they spec'd a 5 speed cassette, even though the bike was a lot higher end than you'd expect to find 5 speed on, and I promptly replied that I figured it was so they'd have to dish the wheel less, since that was more of an issue on the tiny wheels on that bike. I was 15 at the time.
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
21,080
5,999
borcester rhymes
Case in point: guy comes into the shop
should have taken the bike out back, put it in a stand, twiddled your screwdriver a few times, and then said "try it now". He would have pedaled it around, saw there was nothing wrong, maybe cussed a few more times, then left happy.

"The customer is always right" but at some shops that doesn't seem to be the case....
 

loco-gringo

Crusading Clamp Monkey
Sep 27, 2006
8,887
14
Deep in the heart of TEXAS
should have taken the bike out back, put it in a stand, twiddled your screwdriver a few times, and then said "try it now". He would have pedaled it around, saw there was nothing wrong, maybe cussed a few more times, then left happy.

"The customer is always right" but at some shops that doesn't seem to be the case....
When the f*#k will people figure out that any avenue of customer service shouldn't practice "the customer is always right" method??? I say, if people are so "right", why aren't they in the business? It's because they are not.

I don't go to restaurants and preach cooking 101, I don't go to the cleaners and teach them to iron, so why should someone tell me how to change a flat? Here's news for you, if you know how to do it, do it. Are you too good to get your hands dirty, or just lazy??? Wait...you're not as good at it as you might think.

*not directed at Sandwich, but the idea he presented.
 

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
86,005
24,551
media blackout
If the customer is always right, then we'd see some real abortions of bikes... like a recumbant 29'er running a boxxer with zip tied on v-brake mounts and HS-33's, along with a biopace chainring and cottered cranks.
 

HAB

Chelsea from Seattle
Apr 28, 2007
11,580
2,006
Seattle
If the customer is always right, then we'd see some real abortions of bikes... like a recumbant 29'er running a boxxer with zip tied on v-brake mounts and HS-33's, along with a biopace chainring and cottered cranks.
Not to mention fit issues. If I practiced the customer is always right policy when fitting bikes, everyone that comes through the shop would have the most fvcked positions imaginable. People often come into the shop asking me to do ___ with their ____ position wise. I always instead of just doing it, ask them why the want it done. 95% of the time after they answer that question, I do something entirely different than what they requested. The most common one is the guy who wants me to lower the nose of his seat because he feels like he's putting all his weight on his junk. After he (usually very awkwardly :rofl:) explains the problem, I'll instead move his seat back, and often angle it up a little so that he's actually sitting on the right part of it. If I just STFU and did what he asked for, either his problem would get worse because he'd slide onto the nose of the seat, or he'd have to prop himself up with his arms, causing shoulder and wrist discomfort. The customer is almost always wrong when it comes to what to change to make ___ discomfort go away.
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
54,457
20,254
Sleazattle
If the customer is always right, then we'd see some real abortions of bikes... like a recumbant 29'er running a boxxer with zip tied on v-brake mounts and HS-33's, along with a biopace chainring and cottered cranks.

Sounds flexy.

No shimz?

PIIYB
 

TN

Hey baby, want a hot dog?
Jul 9, 2002
14,301
1,353
Jimtown, CO
All I have to say is...i would trade jobs with a wrench monkey any day...just as long as I get to keep my "direct deposit" (aka real job pay check). :D
 

HAB

Chelsea from Seattle
Apr 28, 2007
11,580
2,006
Seattle
All I have to say is...i would trade jobs with a wrench monkey any day...just as long as I get to keep my "direct deposit" (aka real job pay check). :D
I don't mean to bitch, I really like working in a shop. Were it not for the one issue you raise, the fact that I don't get paid that much, I imagine I'd be happy keeping at this quite a while. As it is, I'm going to have to move on to a "real" job before too long. Guess that's why I'm getting an edumacation.
 

Prettym1k3

Turbo Monkey
Aug 21, 2006
2,864
0
In your pants
This was, hands down, my favorite part:

"A DEDICATION TO ALL THE HIPSTER DUCHEBAGS:

-If you ****heads had any money, you wouldn't NEED a vintage Poo-zhow to get laid. Go have an ironic mustache growing contest in front of American Apparel, so that I can continue selling $300 bikes to fatties, which is what keeps the lights on. "
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
21,080
5,999
borcester rhymes
When the f*#k will people figure out that any avenue of customer service shouldn't practice "the customer is always right" method??? I say, if people are so "right", why aren't they in the business? It's because they are not.

I don't go to restaurants and preach cooking 101, I don't go to the cleaners and teach them to iron, so why should someone tell me how to change a flat? Here's news for you, if you know how to do it, do it. Are you too good to get your hands dirty, or just lazy??? Wait...you're not as good at it as you might think.

*not directed at Sandwich, but the idea he presented.
dudes it's not that the customer is always right regardless of what happens any time all the time....but that if the customer wants something done, he should leave feeling like he got his way (the upside of the negotiation, if that makes sense).

For example, if a dude sits down to a restaurant and orders a steak "rare" and it comes out "rare" but he says rare should be black all the way through, then you cook it the way he wants it and apologize for the "mistake". You don't go "Listen dude, rare is red and you're a stupid idiot for ordering something you didn't understand, you should go to steak school to learn these things, idiot, man I'm so much smarter than you....idiot. Enjoy your steak, sir". Which one is more likely to bring that customer back?

Same thing with your "fix a flat" analogy. There are things that I cannot or do not know how to do on my bike (getting fewer as the years go by). If you spend the time to educate them just enough, they will hopefully understand the process and benefit from it. They'll also respect you more as a shop/mechanic.

As for the fit problem, same goes. Ask them why they want the adjustment, explain to them the options "I can do as you say, which will make it worse, or I can adjust X and Y, then Z and Q will happen, and you'll be happier. If said idiot understands what can actually make a difference, they'll be happier. If they're just too stupid and ignorant, let them ride with the saddle in the wrong position and they can suck it up. It doesn't really matter, so long as they leave your shop happy.

Telling them they suck and should never come back because they don't fully understand is not a good way to win customers.
 

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
86,005
24,551
media blackout
dudes it's not that the customer is always right regardless of what happens any time all the time....but that if the customer wants something done, he should leave feeling like he got his way (the upside of the negotiation, if that makes sense).

For example, if a dude sits down to a restaurant and orders a steak "rare" and it comes out "rare" but he says rare should be black all the way through, then you cook it the way he wants it and apologize for the "mistake". You don't go "Listen dude, rare is red and you're a stupid idiot for ordering something you didn't understand, you should go to steak school to learn these things, idiot, man I'm so much smarter than you....idiot. Enjoy your steak, sir". Which one is more likely to bring that customer back?

Same thing with your "fix a flat" analogy. There are things that I cannot or do not know how to do on my bike (getting fewer as the years go by). If you spend the time to educate them just enough, they will hopefully understand the process and benefit from it. They'll also respect you more as a shop/mechanic.

As for the fit problem, same goes. Ask them why they want the adjustment, explain to them the options "I can do as you say, which will make it worse, or I can adjust X and Y, then Z and Q will happen, and you'll be happier. If said idiot understands what can actually make a difference, they'll be happier. If they're just too stupid and ignorant, let them ride with the saddle in the wrong position and they can suck it up. It doesn't really matter, so long as they leave your shop happy.

Telling them they suck and should never come back because they don't fully understand is not a good way to win customers.

So you're encouraging using trickery on customers? Awesome.


And your steak analogy is a failboat. Only vegetarians don't know the difference between "rare" and "well done".