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A loan or a gift?

ire

Turbo Monkey
Aug 6, 2007
6,199
4
I am a little perplexed……..I am on a cycling team that a friend runs and two years ago I was building up my XC bike and he gave a fork to me to use. He is pro and had received the fork for free and raced it the previous season. The impression I had was that it was a gift to me. I get an email today asking for the fork back that he “loaned” to me. I sent him an email and said that I didn’t realize it was loaned; he shot back saying, you wouldn’t expect me to hand you $500 would you? He has been becoming more of a d*ck to everyone, so I guess I shouldn’t be surprised. The thing that sucks is that I have a few other items I received from him that I perceived to be free gear from sponsors…..is he now going to want that stuff back too??
 

ire

Turbo Monkey
Aug 6, 2007
6,199
4
Are you in high school ire? :think:
Nah, and this guy is in his 30s. He's not much of a friend anymore, he has been treating everyone around him like sh!t and most of us quit talking to him. I was foolish enough to ask a question about a race, and this was the response I got.....I won't be making that mistake again
 

sanjuro

Tube Smuggler
Sep 13, 2004
17,412
0
SF
I am a little perplexed……..I am on a cycling team that a friend runs and two years ago I was building up my XC bike and he gave a fork to me to use. He is pro and had received the fork for free and raced it the previous season. The impression I had was that it was a gift to me. I get an email today asking for the fork back that he “loaned” to me. I sent him an email and said that I didn’t realize it was loaned; he shot back saying, you wouldn’t expect me to hand you $500 would you? He has been becoming more of a d*ck to everyone, so I guess I shouldn’t be surprised. The thing that sucks is that I have a few other items I received from him that I perceived to be free gear from sponsors…..is he now going to want that stuff back too??
That is an odd one.

I would not "lend" any item which can "wear out" and which could easily break easily in a crash. I do expect the items I lend to be replaced if they broken, so I am careful what I lend and and to whom, and something like a fork has to be a given item.

With that in mind, and the fact is that the fork is in your possession, you could tell this guy to get bent.

However, if you and he did not specify what the exact arrangement was, you are ethically obligated to give the fork.

Since he did "give" it you without an exchange of cash, services, or goods, I would think it is his fork and his right to ask for it back, as unpleasant as is it for you (although I would not pay him a dime or fix anything wrong with the fork).

This situation did come up for me. A friend of mine lent me a decent used fork for my bike, with the assumption that I would pay him if I broke the fork. I was trying to sell this bike and when my friend needed the money, I ended up buying the fork from him.

I rather have strung him out until I sold the bike, but he is a great friend for lending me the fork, which I used for 6 months, so I paid him without question.

This person was also the one who OGDMFG ripped off, so if I didn't pay, unlike OGDMFG who lives 2 states over, he would drive the 30 miles to my house to beat the crap out of me.
 

ire

Turbo Monkey
Aug 6, 2007
6,199
4
I will give the fork back, purely on the basis that giving it back is easier than dealing with the B.S. from him. If you asks for anything else I'm going to tell him no. He did this once before, but the time frame was a couple of weeks. He gave me a set of Ultegra cranks near my birthday (it was conveyed to me to be a present), then asked for it back, WTF?? That was the last time I accepted anything from him
 

X3pilot

Texans fan - LOL
Aug 13, 2007
5,861
1
SoMD
As Newman stated in the case of Kramer and Elaine and the Schwinn StingRay,

Cut the fork in half.
 

ultraNoob

Yoshinoya Destroyer
Jan 20, 2007
4,515
1
Hills of Paradise
If you give it back along with a box of all the stuff he "gave/loaned" you it would solve all future problems with this guy and send him a message that no one wants to be his friend anymore.
 

Austin Bike

Turbo Monkey
Jan 26, 2003
1,559
0
Duh, Austin
What makes you think you are entitled to it?

Seriously. He gave you a fork to use for 2 years. Now he wants it back. Regardless of how he got it, it's his and he was kind enough to let you use it for no charge over that time.

Man up and give it back. Thank him for letting you use it. It would be different if he said "here, take this, its yours to keep." He didn't and you made an assumption. You were wrong, be a man and give it back.

Maybe he will let you borrow something else in the future.

Or you could just be a dick about it and never get anything else in the future. Yeah, that would really show him.
 

jonKranked

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Nov 10, 2005
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What makes you think you are entitled to it?

Seriously. He gave you a fork to use for 2 years. Now he wants it back. Regardless of how he got it, it's his and he was kind enough to let you use it for no charge over that time.

Man up and give it back. Thank him for letting you use it. It would be different if he said "here, take this, its yours to keep." He didn't and you made an assumption. You were wrong, be a man and give it back.

Maybe he will let you borrow something else in the future.

Or you could just be a dick about it and never get anything else in the future. Yeah, that would really show him.
Are you for real? Did you not read most of the thread? The guy asking for his fork back has been a dick to all his other "friends". Also, its his own fault for never specifying that he was expecting the fork back at some point.

FWIW, I'd say its a fair guess that there was never anything put into writing. At which point possession is 9/10 of the law.
 

Austin Bike

Turbo Monkey
Jan 26, 2003
1,559
0
Duh, Austin
Actually, I am for real. If the original owner wants to be a jerk (and the posts suggests that he might), he could call the cops and say the fork is stolen.

He probably has paperwork saying it is his, the guy in possession does not. Fork goes back to original owner; original poster has some explaining to do to the cops. Yeah, it could happen.

Possession is incorrectly cited as being 9/10's of the law, but paperwork beats possession 100% of the time. The biggest falacy going is that if you are in possession you are somehow in the right. Judge judy and the rest of those shows deal with that 90% of the time. Someone gives someone else money and the receiver thinks it was a "gift" and doesn't have to pay it back. They all end the same way - the money gets repaid.

While we all argue whether or not it was a loan or a gift, there is a place where people can actually decide that for real. It's called court. A fork would probably fall under misdemeanor theft, so the OP wouldn't be arrested, but the cops would probably take the fork back and issue a summons to show up in court to give his side of the story.

If the owner is a jerk, I'm about 90% sure that is how it would go down.
 

ire

Turbo Monkey
Aug 6, 2007
6,199
4
bunch of stuff
Settle down, I think there is a misunderstanding (much like what happened). When he gave me the fork, it came across as he was giving it to me. I can't recall the exact conversation that went on during the handover, but it was to the effect of "you can have this fork"....and it does matter how he obtained the fork; I would be less inclined to think someone would give me an expensive fork they paid for. He received the fork for free, and hadn't really been impressed with it, but he was under contract to race for the year prior to my receiving.

<edit> One other thing I should mention is that when I was building this bike the bike shop owner gave me some wheels and brakes (at least I think he gave them to me :think:)
 
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roamingoregon

Monkey
Apr 10, 2004
250
0
Wilsonville
Just give him back all his stuff. He clearly "loaned" you the stuff when he thought he was going to be the next big time pro making plenty of dough.

Now that he is in his 30's and didn't make it, lost his sponsors, and owes child support he needs the money. It's tough out there on "the circuit." Give him a break.

/I wish I had the balls to ask for all the stuff I gave away years ago.
//no child support (happy family, killer job)
///gave up on racing though.
 

jonKranked

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Nov 10, 2005
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Actually, I am for real. If the original owner wants to be a jerk (and the posts suggests that he might), he could call the cops and say the fork is stolen.
This is providing he can prove the fork was his in the first place.

He probably has paperwork saying it is his...
He probably doesn't. If he was getting comped parts, AND if he was actually getting an invoice along with it, knowing pro mtb racers, it probably got lost somewhere along the way.

blah blah blah Judge judy blah blah blah
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
 

jonKranked

Press Button, Receive Stupid
Nov 10, 2005
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Look, FTR, I've actually been on the other side of this argument. Right before I moved to the west coast (a little over a year ago), I loaned a spare DH frame to a friend (2001 Specialized S-works DH) and made it clear that it was being loaned to him while his frame was being fixed (shock rebuild, new bearings, etc). A few weeks ago I called him to see if he still had it. Guess what? NOPE! At first I was pissed, but then when he explained that he gave it to a grommet so he could have an actual DH bike and get into riding, I got over it real quick. As much as I would have liked to have that frame for history's sake, its being put to a far better use now.
 

Jimmy_Pop

Turbo Monkey
Mar 1, 2002
2,030
0
Phoenix, Az USA
tell him that after 2 years of being under the impression it was a gift, you'll need a couple months to save and pay for a new fork and at that time, you will give the fork.
 

nmr8

Monkey
Apr 6, 2007
108
0
What makes you think you are entitled to it?

Man up and give it back. Thank him for letting you use it. It would be different if he said "here, take this, its yours to keep." He didn't and you made an assumption.
agreed, and clarify the status of the other things he 'gave' you. even though he's being a dick does not mean it's okay to keep someone else's property. imagine the situation as if he were a nice guy and it'll be easy to see that the right thing to do is return the fork. you'll feel better about it in the long run, i guarantee it.
 
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Serial Midget

Al Bundy
Jun 25, 2002
12,735
1,427
Fort of Rio Grande
I loaned a friend my much coveted 80s Univega Super Poo with full Suntour Superbe Pro, it was clearly a loan and we both agreed to it. He rode the crap out of it for 2 years and maintained as if it where his own. Once he learned I'd been relocated he made arrangements to have the bike put back to my specs - I told him he could have the bike since he'd taken such good care of it. For me it was a great feeling since I knew he was not in a financial situation to replace something that had become so important to him. He has a wife and kids to support and is seriously under employed... without that bike he'd have given up road biking entirely.

Thats a situation that turned out well since we where both clear from the beginning that the biked was a loan, the respect he showed me made it easy for me to turn the bike over to him.

The only other item of "value" I've given away was a Marzocci X-Fly 100 that I hated with a passion. Dummmbikes tried to return it on several times but I refused to answer his e-mails on the subject... :evil:
 

ire

Turbo Monkey
Aug 6, 2007
6,199
4
If you ever ride one of my bikes you can't have it.
Damn, I was going to ride away with it and assume you gave it to me :biggrin:

This has been a lesson to me, make sure the terms are clear up front.
 

Austin Bike

Turbo Monkey
Jan 26, 2003
1,559
0
Duh, Austin
If the "giving" situation was exactly the same but guy was really nice and he needed it back because he was going to sell it because his kid needed a life saving operation, would you still feel that you deserved to keep the fork?

Please be consistent and say yes, otherwise there is a flaw in the logic, this all gets tied to emotion and not reality.
 

ire

Turbo Monkey
Aug 6, 2007
6,199
4
would you still feel that you deserved to keep the fork?
You keep phrasing it like I feel some type of entitlement. I don't feel I deserved the fork, I thought it was a gift. And it doesn't matter if he was the nicest guy or biggest dick, I'm still giving it back.

Here is his response to me:

No, you are welcome to use my stuff anytime until I need it back.
I told him that I wish that was clear up front because I would have jumped on some of the fork orders we have done since then to now. Plus, I hate borrowing things from people for extended period (I'm always afraid I'll break the item).