a LOW dh fs frame

BEAUster · May 2, 2004

Originally posted by Toshi
thanks for the tip on the demo9, josh, but i'm not necessarily looking for two ring compatibility. i run one ring on my evil already, and that's fine with me. i still have my rigid xc bike for when i feel like grinding up fireroads.

TWISTED, are you being sarcastic? kinesis is in portland, yes, but i'm not sure if they build what i'm after.

BEAUster and Supa8, the R9 and the DHR both look to be in the same vein. Care to chime in on how yours works in this regard, Acadian?

The Gemini and the El Cuervo conceivably could work. But, once again, not cheap or available used. Also, thanks for your PDC feedback, vitox, but once again we have the same issue.

I guess I have to find people with Turners and bug them for a test ride. Any volunteers in the Pac NW? heh

Finally, anyone have prebuilt (Specialized, Kona?, Giant, Cannondale etc.) suggestions that might fit the bill?

i dont know much about the bike. visit www.sinisterbikes.com

the owners are great and will stand behind their products 100%

sikocycles · May 2, 2004

Racelink

vitox · May 2, 2004

Originally posted by Toshi
hmm, please do tell more about these combos. i didn't see anything on the pdcracing website, and i must have missed it if it was posted here. (and i only check here and hcor, no mtbr for me...)

its 3k usd for frame shock floater bb hub and 888, im sure he can do any other marzo hookup, like a shiver or whatever.

neversummersnow · May 2, 2004

FYI:

The PDC has everything going for it EXCEPT the chainstay leangth. Although static (unsagged) they are at 17.5", the high pivot on the PDC makes for an unreal amount of chaingrowth (they've addressed this as far as suspension action goes), but the chainstays still do grow a LOT.

When sagged they are well over 18 if not close to 19".

I only am very aware of this because I rode a BCD last year, same design idea, but at BCD he starts the chainstays at 15.9" so that way under sag they sit at a more normal 17.3", never getting to the point where it feels like I'm steering a semi truck down the mountain.

It's not a horrible thing, but something you should be aware of for the riding you're looking to do.

Fulton · May 2, 2004

Originally posted by Bldr_Freerider
I know you're looking for an uber low bike, but the Balfa 2step DH is really nice. Racking yourself isn't a problem at all and you can get WAY the heck back on it. It's also very stable and the geometry is awesome.

i've noticed a few people have recommended balfa's, I know they are bad ass bikes, but I can't see why anyone would buy one right now, with the future of the company being in jeopardy :confused:

vitox · May 2, 2004

yea youre right about the extending CS, but that also is accompanied with a rearward axle path that supposedly absorbs impacts better and allows for more energy conservarion, i cant say much about what that tradeoff but the bike is very plush like all other rearward wheel trajectory bikes (karp and bb7) ive tried.

downy · May 2, 2004

Originally posted by Fulton
just to clairify, are you looking for:
1) low BB height
2) low top tube/standover height
3) low COG,center of gravity??

isn't low cog (center of gravity) implying a low bb height? I didn't know u could have a high bb w/ a low center of gravity. Doesn't make sense to me.

vitox · May 2, 2004

the whole concept of CoG implies that not only position but quantity of mass is relevant.

in other words, you can have a very low bb bike that has a tall CoG, think for instance of a bike like the RM Slayer with a huge avalanche up there under the top tube.
a bike like that could have a very low bb but that wouldnt mean it has a low "CoG".

Lumpy_Gravy · May 2, 2004

The 2004 NorcoTeam DH looks like it has very low cog. Pure race geometry too!

Not a boutique frame, but seems to fit your needs. If you can get hold of one that is.

http://www.norco.com/bikes/2004bikes/images/vpsteamdh.jpg

dexter · May 2, 2004

check out a dh9. uber low, adjustable, not that heavy, pedal better than 99% of the bikes out their etc etc

auntesther · May 2, 2004

toshi
that R9 that Beauster posted a pic of is mine. I am not tall by any stretch ( 5'9" on a good day) and it sits nice and low. standover is less than 30 unsagged and bb is 13.75 unsagged. I rode it at Bromont all day yesterday and even in the tight stuff was great. the susension never bottomed once that I felt. As much as it felt plush , it wasnt wallowy and was really easily pedalled. really stiff.. even cramming in into switchbacks I didnt notice any flex. very balanced off drops. I was a bit concerned about that as just poking around, it felt hard to get the nose up but every drop was just lean back a bit and it did the rest. mine has a 38 tooth ring and I see no reason it couldnt go much smaller.
well worth looking into IMO. The craftsmanship is fantastic, ride is silent and solid.

neversummersnow · May 2, 2004

Originally posted by Toshi
hmm. that, and the noted tendency in the pinkbike review to resist lofting the front wheel, are worrisome. how has the bcd worked out for you? since alex (no?) builds them all by hand, if they are competitive in price it might be the easiest way to get my "ideal" -- quotes since i'm not sure if my vision would match up with riding characteristics -- frame geometry...

His pricing is VERY resonable. He ends up working for sweat shop like labor rates on his frames....he takes a lot of pride in what he's doing.

All high pivot designs (aka Orange) or ultra mega high pivot designs take a little more getting used to in terms of getting the wheel lofted. However, the BCD has such short chainstays to begin with its almost too quick. I loved it.

PM ssadict, he has my old frame.

-Jeff-

narlus · May 3, 2004

hey toshi, i just tooled around on the wife's 222 now, playing around w/ miles on his bike at the village green (cue Kinks' song now). the orange is certainly compact, can run a full length post and when the seat is stowed it's way out of the way. when pedals are level, my knee is above the top tube. the frame is a 15" and we are about the same height as i recall.

aside from price, one big drawback the orange has though for what i think you want the bike for is the uber-slack head angle. w/ a boxxer it's 64deg i think. lots of wobble at slow speed; probably not best for "shore" applications. but, on the other hand, the shock is well shielded from water and mud.

that said, you can build it very light, and it's solid and stiff. running a smaller chainring is not an issue either. you could probably run a 32T on it and be fine (but i'd imagine you would have to tune the shock so that it's not a trampoline when you pedal it).

Jayridesacove · May 3, 2004

Small Cove Playmate

Geometry based on 170mm fork:
Top Tube Length (effective) 21.75"
Head Tube Angle 66.5°
Chainstay Length 17"
BB Height 14.5"

SuspectDevice · May 3, 2004

The R7 Motorhead and the early R9's that I've seen don't like anything smaller than a 36 for chainline reasons. I don't know if things have changed for the production r9's though. They are low standover bikes, but the BB can be a little high with the stock shock, which for non-racing applications may not be a bad thing.

Lexx D · May 3, 2004

Find a used BB7. I love mine and you can find smoking deals.

auntesther · May 3, 2004

Originally posted by SuspectDevice
They are low standover bikes, but the BB can be a little high with the stock shock, which for non-racing applications may not be a bad thing.

I have a production R9 and measured the BB at 13.75" with the stock shock....I dont consider that high.

The prototypes I swung a leg over ( 3 different ones) were alot higher both standover and BB height. Not the case with mine.

Supa8 · May 3, 2004

Toshi check around for some used 02 DHR's. Back a month ago there were a few for around $1,000. Not much out there at all in the low/ small bike world.

A small RFX used may also work. I have two bikes. The DHR and a new Heckler and both have the low COG feel which I like.

SuspectDevice · May 3, 2004

Originally posted by auntesther
I have a production R9 and measured the BB at 13.75" with the stock shock....I dont consider that high.

The prototypes I swung a leg over ( 3 different ones) were alot higher both standover and BB height. Not the case with mine.

Yeah, the lower bb height is IMO the single best improvement V the prototypes... Setup with an 8" 888 they are still real high though. Long Forks Suck!

auntesther · May 3, 2004

Originally posted by SuspectDevice
Yeah, the lower bb height is IMO the single best improvement V the prototypes... Setup with an 8" 888 they are still real high though. Long Forks Suck!

makes sense...mines is got a dorado on it which is pretty short compared to a 888. would be curious to know the BB heigh with a 888......

I was really impressed with the change in overall height on the production one vs the prototype.

djjohnr · May 3, 2004

Cheap, low, mass produced -

Marin Team DH : 7-10in, US made, 15in BB, 17.5" CS

binary visions · May 3, 2004

Originally posted by gurp
Cheap, low, mass produced -

Marin Team DH : 7-10in, US made, 15in BB, 17.5" CS

And they're now coming Pre Cracked for Your Satisfaction.

djjohnr · May 3, 2004

They put additional gussets on the headtube in 02.5, which solved the cracking problems there, and they moved to a 12mm through axle on the rear which stiffened up the tail alot. No, its not a Turner, but if you want cheap...

CreeP · May 3, 2004

cove hooker (16.5 cs might be a bit short for you, dunno)

smaller konas

bmw for sure (or canfield)

pdc isn't a bad idea either

personnally i don't even pay attention to the tall bikes.

maybe harange Marshall into having another one of his welded up.

also keewee has a nice one, and ancilotti, and there's at least one i'm forgetting.

CreeP · May 4, 2004

right, i remembered, i wanted to comment on the balfa thing: the 2step DH rocks, you're going to be able to get balfas cheaper now, and anything you might have a problem with can be sorted out, except of course for mad dings in the frame that require replacement.

and i wanted to reccomend the Rocky mountain bikes. the smallest 16'5" RMX (04 replacement for the RM6/7/8/9 series) has a 30inch standover but i know the rm6 was available with more than that.

neversummersnow · May 4, 2004

DO NOT touch the RM6...horrible idea.

Tully · May 4, 2004

Originally posted by neversummersnow
DO NOT touch the RM6...horrible idea.

Care to elaborate?

Jm_ · May 4, 2004

Originally posted by Tully
Care to elaborate?

The are way too high leverage, bad on shocks, flexy rear swingarm (the RM7 had a significantly beefier one), the linkage develops play and breaks, etc....I've noticed most of these from my own observations when riding with someone on one of these, they are pretty bad, stay away.

CraigH · May 5, 2004

Originally posted by Fulton
is he knolly bikes??

Knolly Bikes is Noel Buckley.

Scroll to the bottom:
http://www.knollybikes.com/about.html

(Edit to fix typo.)

CreeP · May 6, 2004

"balfa makes me leery"

your loss

either way

bighitfsr · May 6, 2004

These frames are made by Keewee in New Zealand.
They are cro-mo single pivots with a linkage driving the shock like a DH comp but with a detachable seat tower. They are spec'ed with a 42T ring by memory but I'm pretty sure they'll take a smaller ring without becoming semi active (low pivot location).
I had a ride was really impressed.
It had a really solid feel to the rear end and it almost felt like it has an avy the way the shock ramped up smoothly through the travel (it has a 2.75 Fox RC and wont fit anything bigger/wider).

Keewee's demo rig weighs in at 42lbs with a truvative cranks, 321 wheels and boxxers so its not as heavy as you'd expect.
If I needed a new DH bike it would be near the top of my list.

I'm also thinking maybe something like a 24 cycles le dude 2 frame. They have only 6 inches of travel though.

Transcend · May 6, 2004

My first suggestion would be a chumba zulu. It was frikiin crazy low when i had one, slammed my BB shell into damn near everything and forced me to run 165mm cranks.

My 223 is fairly low as mentioned, i believe it has a 13.75" BB in the 64 deg position and is extremely adjustable.

Edit: don't go balfa. They are finishing up 2004 production, but then who knows what will happen after that. Also, the BB7 isn't as low as it looks in that photo..it is halfway through its travel there.

CreeP · May 6, 2004

but its got plenty of body clearance and so does the 2-step dh.

i just remembered another one: the giant dh, i'm not sure what the toptube length is on the one with the smallest seat tube but the design at least lends itself to plenty of standover in a small size.

13'5 on a bike with rear suspension? that's crazy!

a LOW dh fs frame

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