Why does Jesus need so much money?
A Question For Christians
- Thread starter Serial Midget
- Start date
Yeah. Master Midget doesn't need no money.
Bennie Hinn cant do the lords work for free now can he?
Whom is Bennie Hinn? I was actually thinking about the Pope and all that... I wonder if Muslim religeous leaders burn that much cash on frivolous luxury and things made of solid gold. All that Papal gold could feed a lot of poor people... Ghandi walked the walk in bare feet. He was Hindu though... right?
i'd buy Jesus a hamburger if he was hungry, but there's no way i'm giving him any of my hard earned dough unless he mows my lawn or somethin. Wait a minute i don't have a lawn..... 
well, my question would be "why is he the messiah when he doesnt comply will the messiah requirements in the torah""??
is he a descendant, thru his dad, of david?
how can he has paternal lineage if catholics (dunno about protestants) believe in the "inmaculate conception"????
what about the new testament? when somewhere in luke it says "there are 40 something generatiosn between jesus and david"... and ¿¿mathew?? i think says 20 something???
is he a descendant, thru his dad, of david?
how can he has paternal lineage if catholics (dunno about protestants) believe in the "inmaculate conception"????
what about the new testament? when somewhere in luke it says "there are 40 something generatiosn between jesus and david"... and ¿¿mathew?? i think says 20 something???
A dead horse will explode if left out in the sun too long, thats why we have rendering plants. Its much easier to transport a live animal to the slaugher house...mack said:Honestly, I thought we already confirmed that religion was a joke.
To make more christians. Increased demand from heathen countries like China and India have driven up the costs of raw materials.Serial Midget said:
Jospeh was of the House of David and took Jesus in as his son. I believe Mary was also from the House of David, but don't quote me on that. As far as I've been taught Jesus fulfilled the requirements of the Messiah.ALEXIS_DH said:
As for the money....it's more important for us to save the souls of those poor than to save their stomachs. Saving souls is expensive work, I guess....
The Ito
No, but from what I can see, a lot of the more radical ones probably have a large munitions budget.Serial Midget said:
I grew up as a nominal Catholic. Being Irish, it was hard to escape from, though our family never took it seriously and I bailed as soon as I could get away with it. Even as a kid, I had a hard time with all the gold and expensive buildings and artwork and fancy threads in some Catholic parishes. To be fair, there are a lot of Catholic churches and parishes that spend every penny on charity and community work, so you can't characterize the entire religion as focused on luxury any more than you can consider all Islam to be focused on terrorism. Unfortunately in both cases, the stereotype is formed by the ones that get the most publicity.
The man that heels.Serial Midget said:
I prefer Benny Hill
Serial Midget said:
i have a side question? why is catholicism often a synonym for christianity? catholicism is more like greek mythology than true christianity and whenever the word "christianity" comes up people are always diverting to stories about bad priests and odd Pope's. the only similarities in the religions are the belief in christ...but that is the only common thread...pretty much every ritual of the orthodox catholic church goes against the more biblically based protestant christianity.
sorry, rant over. just tired of being grouped in with catholics all the time. us protestants have enough problems in our own house, we don't need some politically based religion mucking it up even more for us
another side note: is it true that the new pope was once a member of the Nazi party? heard in on the news but i haven't substantiated the claim yet.
Serial Midget said:
So I can buy bikes. :eviltongu
yes manimal, its true. he was in service twice, and worked in an anti-aircraft unit covering an airplane BMW factory... and in the 2nd round setting up anti-tank mines in hungary near a concentration camp... but he was conscripted though..
still, awesome CV for the moral authority of the world!!!!!!!....
and ito.. its impossible jesus had complied the requirements of the messiah if he was born from inmaculate conception, there is no way he a real had paternal lineage..... to have paternal lineage you have to have a real dad.. otherwise his paternal lineage would be the holy spirit...
and what about stuff like building the 3rd temple?? or gathering all the jews back to israel? the age of peace and stuff? i think all that was part of the messiah credentials in the torah... and several other stuff....
still, awesome CV for the moral authority of the world!!!!!!!....
and ito.. its impossible jesus had complied the requirements of the messiah if he was born from inmaculate conception, there is no way he a real had paternal lineage..... to have paternal lineage you have to have a real dad.. otherwise his paternal lineage would be the holy spirit...
and what about stuff like building the 3rd temple?? or gathering all the jews back to israel? the age of peace and stuff? i think all that was part of the messiah credentials in the torah... and several other stuff....
Anyone who can worship a trinity and insist that his religion is a monotheism can believe anything... just give him time to rationalize it.manimal said:
Robert Heinlein
Silver said:
bwhahahaha.. thats just awesome.. add the saints, beatifieds, all the virgins and youll find catholics have more "gods or semi-gods" than hindus...
Hmm, I don't know my theology well enough to answer this, but I can ask a few friends.ALEXIS_DH said:
I do know that there was a prophecy that the Messiah would be born of a Virgin(Isaiah 7:14), though there is debate on what exactly that meant(immaculate conception or conception at first poke). As it is, only Matthew and Luke mention the birth of Jesus and while they say Jesus is born of a Virgin Matthew says that Joseph takes Mary and Jesus into his household, which would give him claim to the House of David. While it is not the physical lineage that you mention it is still true the Jesus belongs to the House of David. I understand what you are saying, but from a religious(and I believe at that time legal) perspective the problem you are mentioning does not exist.
I wish I could answer more about the prophecies surrounding the Messiah, but I don't know a whole lot of the Old Testament to start finding it.
The Ito
So people like me can get paidSerial Midget said:
Seriously though, the money goes towards the church (pastors, church buildings, etc.) to help it grow and to support mission applications such as tsunami relief, food, health care, etc. Tithing is supposed to be an act of selfless giving to those who need it; it's not all about the money.
"catholic," with a lower-case c, simply means universal and is often used to describe Christianity as the one true church. I think that's one of the reasons that "Catholic" has been misunderstood to be synonymous with Christian. Unless of course you ask a Catholic. I'm pretty sure they believe that theirs is the only Christian way and that the other Christian "cults" are going to hell.manimal said:
Catholicism isn't synonymous with Christian any more than German Shepherd is synonymous with dog. They are both subsets of the larger group. You don't have to be a member of any big-box religion to be a Christian.BikeGeek said:
Way off the mark. Catholics don't even think that non-Christians are going to hell, though they do have some strange concepts around unbaptized babies and lapsed Catholics.BikeGeek said:
And manimal, child sexual abuse and leaders with skeletons in the closet are not unique to the Catholic church. But as usual, that's what hits the news. At least the new Pope hasn't gone to efforts to hide anything, and if he hadn't been involved in the Nazi Party 60 years ago, he would have been dead. How many Americans and Canadians have been conscripted to go to wars they didn't believe in, and went because they didn't want to go to jail?
Read it again. I said "misunderstood to be synonymous."jaydee said:
I agree with everything you said about catholicism and Catholicism and the way people have misunderstood the terms. I should have quoted manimal there instead of you. He mentioned people thinking the two words were considered synonymous.BikeGeek said:
He doesn't need it - but unfortunately His followers like to focus on it alot to the point they misinterpret Scriptures to get it (I'm referring to the concept of the tithe as it is preached in churches today).Serial Midget said:
jaydee said:
I guess the "going to hell" thing was just my aunt.
My dad was one of those confusing the two. He refused to recite the passage in the Apostle's Creed that referred to the "catholic church" because he didn't agree with the "deification of the Virgin Mary" in the Catholic faith.
Technically the Messianic prophecies holistically have origins in the Tanakh (Old Testament) and not just the Torah.ALEXIS_DH said:
Now the issue here seems to stem from the term "son of" in Matthew's Gospel (note the differences between the two geneologies is that Lukes traces Miryam daughter of Eli (Mary) lineage, and Matthew's is from Joseph's side).
Now this term "son of" in Hebrew is the word "ben" - Jesus in the 1st century would have been called Yeshua ben Yosef (Joshua son of Joseph - remember Jesus is the Greek rendering of the Hebrew word Joshua, our fine English translators decided not to translate the Greek, the same problem arises with the word baptism........but anyway).
Keep in mind that Hebrew has far less words that most other languages, so words in the Hebrew have to have multiple meanings. The term ben can have at least 3 different meanings:
1 - ben can mean the literal son of a father (as shown above).
2 - ben can also mean not the actual son but a more distant decendant, as in the case of Matthew's Gospel "son of David, son of Abraham"
3 - ben can also mean "having the characteristics of" which applies in Matthew's Gospel as well, Jesus had the characteristics of both David and Abraham.
Now, in Matthew's Gospel, the generations are divided up into 3 sections of 14. The name David in the Hebrew is spelled D V D (Dalit Vav Dalit) - vowels were noted by the dots on the Hebrew letter. The Hebrew language did not have numbers like modern languages do, so each letter had a specific value. D = 4, and V = 6, so the name D V D adds up to what? 14 How many generations are in each section? 14 For a Jewish reader in the 1st century, reading Matthew's Gospel account of the geneology of Jesus, that reader would have see for each of those 3 sections "king, king, king" (remember David was one of Israel's greatest kings).
On a side note, that whole letters having a numermical value has some interesting implications with things like the number 666 - which just drives the "normal" Left Behind crazed Christian scratching their head.
Except that tithing in the Bible is never money it's always defined at grain/produce/animals, no where in the Scriptures does the tithe "switch" to currency. This is a teaching of man (which Jesus had penty to say about).kinghami3 said:
then go grow some crop and quit bitchin. They gave what they had and you are to give what you have.Andyman_1970 said:
It's not dangerous to ask questions but it can be to seek answers in the wrong area...i'd say if you are seriously looking for answers about Christianity ask a Pastor or other church official and get a legit answer. Seems like you're doing more harm than good here
Good post Ito.ito said:
One thing to keep in mind is that there was some issues regarding Jesus' parentage in the Gospels. He is referred to several times as "the son of Mary" which in the 1st century was a put down. Those around Jesus would have regarded Him as a mamzier (take our word bastard and multiply it by 100 and that's how insulting that word is) because Mary was quite a ways along before they got married. A mamzier was such a threat to Jewish blood line that they were not even allowed to marry - which blows a big hole in Mr. Dan Brown's book the Da Vinci Code.
Something else, the term immaculate conception is a different and wider concept than the virgin birth. Immaculate conception is a Catholic doctrine that asserts Mary was without sin, and that she remained a virgin her whole life (which flies in the face of not only biology - how can someone be a virgin after giving birth - and flies in the face of 1st century Jewish tradition). While I hold to the doctrine of virgin birth, I do not hold the doctrine of immaculate conception.
Actually in ancient Jewish understanding both Torah and the Temple were thought to be physical manifestations of YHWH - so the whole idea of YHWH being echad (which by the way is the same word used to describe Adam and Eve when they became one, and yet they were two) and having multiple manifestations is not a uniquely Christian idea.Silver said:
Oh and BTW - the concept of YHWH being triune and yet echad is a mystery, run away from anyone who says they have it "figured out". The problem is that our Greek/Western minds try to figure everything out, where as the Hebrew/Eastern mind (that brought us the Scriptures) embrace and celebrate mystery.
In order to do HIS work, not only for HIS people but for heathens like you, too!Serial Midget said:
Seriously, my church helps out people in need both in the community and outside of it. We were helped out a lot by my church regarding my daughters' medical problems both spiritually and financially and couldn't have done it without their support. Recently, for example, we all pulled together to help out a member family who lost their home and possessions to a fire while they were away visiting relatives. Basically, love and kindness have a way of multiplying and making their way back to those generous in their disbursement. My church family is filled with people who live that way. Don't get me started on televangelists, though, as the old Suicidal song "Send Me Your Money", more accurately describes my feelings for those.
"Send Me Your Money"
Lights, camera, silence on the set
Tape rolling, 3-2-1-action
Welcome to the church of Suicidal
We'll have a service and wonderful recital
But before we go on, there's something I must mention
An important message I must bring to your attention
I was in meditation and prayer last night
I was awakened by a shining bright light
Over head, a glorious spirit
He gave me a message and you all need to hear it
"Send me your money", that's what he said
He said to "Send me your money"
Now if you can only send a dollar or two
There aint a hell of alot I can do for you
But, if you want to see heaven's door
Make a check out for five hundred or more
"Send me your money", do you here what I'm saying?
"Send me your money"
Now give me some bass, um yea that's how he likes it
Now give me some silence, for all you sinners
Now give me some bass, yea that was funky
Now take them on home Brother Clark, send me your ...money
Here comes another con hiding behind a collar
His only god is the almighty dollar
He aint no prophet, he aint no healer
He's just a two bit goddamn money stealer
Send me your money
Send it, you got to send it
Send me your money
You hear what I'm saying?
Send it, send it
Send me your money
Now how much you give is your own choice
But to me it's the difference between a Porsche and a Rolls Royce
I want you to make it hurt when you dig into your pocket
I want you to make it hurt!
We'll take cash, we'll take checks
We'll take credit cards, we'll take jewelry
We'll take your momma's dentures if they got gold in them
So whose gonna be the next king of the fakers
Whose gonna take the place of Jim and Tammy Faye Bakker?
See my momma, she didn't raise no fool
Cause you can't put a price on a miracle
Amen
One thing to keep in mind when dealing with prophecies is that Jews described things with symbols, images, metaphors, pictures rather than literal concrete definitions. Example: one Messianic prophecy in Isaiah says the Messiah will come "from the stump of Jessy" now did Jesus literally come out of a tree stump named Jessy? No, it was Isaiah's way of descibing where the Messiah would come from.ALEXIS_DH said:
As I'm not too "up" on end times stuff, I believe some of those things you mention Alexis, will be fulfilled with the Messiahs second coming - or first coming for those of you who missed Him in the 1st century...........
With all due respect you'd see that even in the Bible there is evidence of currency way before the giving of the tithe law in the Torah - Abraham purchased Sarah's grave for 400 shekels - this was at least 600 year before God gave Moses the command to tithe - so to say they gave what they had (implying they only had grain/produce/animals) is not Biblically accurate.scotty2hotty said:
Not only was the tithe not currency, but the tithe was never used to keep the Temple running as the "tithe" is used today in modern churches to "pay the bills". The tithe was used to feed the Levites/poor/fatherless/alien/widow, and that's all the tithe was to be used for - the "tithe" today is rarely used exclusively for this purpose.
When you can prove to me that the tithe "switched" from grain/produce/animals to feed the Levites/poor/fatherless/alien/widow in it's correct ancient near east Judaic context, I'd be all ears, but until then what your offering is merely an opinion on the matter.
Oh and BTW - in case you think I'm "anti giving" my family and I use the example of giving set fourth by John the Baptist and the early church in Acts 2 as our model of giving, we give to those who do not have so that no one in our community does not have their needs met.
Feel free to expound on how I'm "doing more harm than good here", seriously, if you don't want to address it on this thread then PM me, I'd be interested to know why you think that.scotty2hotty said:
Since most pastors do not view the Scriptures in their proper 1st century historical, cultural and linguisitic context I tend to question and examine what they say - not that all of it is bad, but sometimes their own understanding is inserted rather than what actually took place or happened (please know I do not think this for the most part is done on purpose it is just the result of a largely Greek/Western understanding of Christianity that is taught in seminaries today).
Example: In Matthew 5 when Jesus says "do not think I have come to abolish the Law but to fulfill it" - most Christians knee jerk understanding is "well Jesus fulfilled the Law because of His death on the cross" or something to that extent. That however is not what was meant by a Jewish rabbi in the 1st century when they would utter the phrase "fulfill" or "abolish" the Law (Torah) - fulfilling Torah meant to correctly interpret Torah, abolishing Torah meant to incorrectly interpret Torah. Now that said, this is not some "new revelation" I had or anything special like that, all it took was about 2 hours of research.
Anyway, Scotty, seriously, if you have a "beef" let's hear it, why am I doing more harm than good on here? If you prefer to conduct that conversation in private please PM me - but if you're going to throw around accusations about my faith or understanding of it do me the courtesy of backing up what you said with some other than "doing more harm than good".
Er, dude... you're losing it; there are no aliens in the old testament. That's a misconception brought on by too many viewings of the Life of Brian.Andyman_1970 said:
So you mean they weren't little gray dudes with black eyes wanting to scan our brains? Dang, I'll have to re read the Hebrew on that one..............fluff said:Er, dude... you're losing it; there are no aliens in the old testament. That's a misconception brought on by too many viewings of the Life of Brian.
And "true Christianity" is more like, what? Roman mythology?manimal said:
-S.S.-