A lot of you guys can skip over some of this but I know folks is antsy to get some feedback on this little guy.
http://blistergearreview.com/gear-reviews/maxxis-high-roller-2
http://blistergearreview.com/gear-reviews/maxxis-high-roller-2
A short treatise on the new Maxxis High Roller 2 tire
- Thread starter kidwoo
- Start date
I would have preferred a little more detail. But good job anyway.
(Interesting about the sideknob dimensions.)
(Interesting about the sideknob dimensions.)
Well done, well thought out.
All that riding research must have been hell- thanks for putting yourself through it for our benefit!
All that riding research must have been hell- thanks for putting yourself through it for our benefit!
Looks like a Mickey Thompson. Gonna need some water inside that thing to keep it from tipping.
Good read as always - well done.
I'm running a 2.35 High Roller (MaxPro) on my AM bike now, and it took awhile to get used to the "F you, I'm not breaking loose..." response from these tires as compared to the Crossmark I was running previously (a tire I happen to <3 btw). I was actually getting a little skittish about when will these things finally break loose, but I'm finally getting used to it now. I will say the "transition" from center to side does seem a bit delayed compared to the Crossmarks. Still, I'm (now) loving the High Roller on the back, although I am curious as to when (or if?) Maxxis will offer the High Roller 2 in a single ply version.
I'm running a 2.35 High Roller (MaxPro) on my AM bike now, and it took awhile to get used to the "F you, I'm not breaking loose..." response from these tires as compared to the Crossmark I was running previously (a tire I happen to <3 btw). I was actually getting a little skittish about when will these things finally break loose, but I'm finally getting used to it now. I will say the "transition" from center to side does seem a bit delayed compared to the Crossmarks. Still, I'm (now) loving the High Roller on the back, although I am curious as to when (or if?) Maxxis will offer the High Roller 2 in a single ply version.
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nice review. you put into words what i've just started to notice about running high rollers on the front haha (first time i've had a brand spanking new one to use).
Very good write up woo. 
one of the better write ups out there.
one of the better write ups out there.I've heard really good things about crossmarks from downhillers who use them on their trail bike. I've not ridden them, but they don't look like they'd really cut it in terms of grip. My intuition has been wrong before though!
Sorry to derail.
While former Sen. Lloyd Bentsen won't confuse me for kidwoo, I will give you my impression of the Crossmark -
I too was skeptical of the tire because of its lack of burly mega knobs (as we all know, big MX sized knobs are really whats important), and I thought the little "cross" shape in the center knob was pretty ghey. But I found it to be best all-rounder AM tire I've tried to date. The intermediate knobs (which look to be lifted right off a Larsen TT) seem to provide a nice transition between the side knobs and center knobs, it rolls great, which I suspect is due to the flat square center knobs. Braking is adequate with the intermediate and center knobs having respectable braking edges, and the side knobs hook up well when leaned over and provide a pretty predictable drift IMO. The side knobs can be a little squirmy, but nothing egregious. I would definitly recommend the 2.25 version over the 2.1, as the knobs are, well, more burly. As with most MaxPro tires, they wear well and as long as you stay away from the "exception" series, they offer decent pinch flat protection. The ony time I haven't been wild about them is in really dry, dust puddly conditions, but that may be because I am skeert of that loose ass sh!t kidwoo rides in.
Have to say tho, I may give those Kenda (gasp) BBGs a go next time around based on what kid and others have said.
I too was skeptical of the tire because of its lack of burly mega knobs (as we all know, big MX sized knobs are really whats important), and I thought the little "cross" shape in the center knob was pretty ghey. But I found it to be best all-rounder AM tire I've tried to date. The intermediate knobs (which look to be lifted right off a Larsen TT) seem to provide a nice transition between the side knobs and center knobs, it rolls great, which I suspect is due to the flat square center knobs. Braking is adequate with the intermediate and center knobs having respectable braking edges, and the side knobs hook up well when leaned over and provide a pretty predictable drift IMO. The side knobs can be a little squirmy, but nothing egregious. I would definitly recommend the 2.25 version over the 2.1, as the knobs are, well, more burly. As with most MaxPro tires, they wear well and as long as you stay away from the "exception" series, they offer decent pinch flat protection. The ony time I haven't been wild about them is in really dry, dust puddly conditions, but that may be because I am skeert of that loose ass sh!t kidwoo rides in.
Have to say tho, I may give those Kenda (gasp) BBGs a go next time around based on what kid and others have said.
I like the X-mark in back personally. On off-cameber stuff it still seems to grip well enough and when you lean the bike over in a bermed corner you aren't using the side knobs anyway. You are still on the center knobs. Or maybe that is what I learned to do to keep them from slipping. When I did have to corner on flat ground the drift/breaking point was predictable. It was nothing like the Continental Trail-king I have now (in front) that behave predictably... You can predict that they will be squirmy and will give out on anything.
Who cares about that dirtjump tread shlt, this thread is about man tires.
Those crossmarks are virtually useless where I live. At least without a spandex one piece.
Those crossmarks are virtually useless where I live. At least without a spandex one piece.
i have two brand new highroller 2s 3c in my garage...
ive been contemplating them, comparing to the original highroller and i am glad someone wrote a review on the way i already felt before even running them. i dont care for the "transition" period of turning, either i'm pinned or not. the smaller side knobs kinda frightened me. i think i'm just going to run these in the rear and keep the original high roller super tacky in the front.
ive been contemplating them, comparing to the original highroller and i am glad someone wrote a review on the way i already felt before even running them. i dont care for the "transition" period of turning, either i'm pinned or not. the smaller side knobs kinda frightened me. i think i'm just going to run these in the rear and keep the original high roller super tacky in the front.
Honestly man they're not bad. I'm just a picky bltch when it comes to tires.
You already own one, just throw it on there. It's better than most tires people rave about. By a long shot.
Wearing a skinsuit gives tires more grip? Don't really understand the science behind it but if our resident RM tire expert says so I will have to try it. 
Kidwoo is not a tire engineer, but he did sleep in a Holiday Inn last night.....
in a Trojan ribbed body condom skinsuit. Although he did spend most of the night explaining to his chick how if the ribs were in a different pattern it would be a much better body condom.
It's all about the whistle in a strong breeze.
good work on the review. thanks.
I 2nd that. Your review makes me a bit less eager to get the new high roller. Too bad. I really wanted a tire with reasonable braking characteristic but with no silly traction problems. DHF/HR combo it will still be.
btw. I never asked. What do you think about the new contis and schwables? Have you tried them? What other tires people rave about are you reffering to?
That's not at all what that review states.
Try some. I'll bet money you like them.
I'd be happy to review some tires from either of those companies as soon as they start making some.I never asked. What do you think about the new contis and schwables? Have you tried them? What other tires people rave about are you reffering to?
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I think I was unclear, not you
I meant the funny lost traction feeling due to thinner sideknobs, not braking.As for those companies. Schwable has 4 downhill tires in soft compound. Continental has 2. What do you mean by as soon as they start making some?
I got what you meant, I just don't think it's as big a deal as that review may make it sound (which I admit, would be fully my fault). I've got a buddy who outweighs me by at least 40lbs, and is about 6'4". He loves them and we literally ride the exact same trails. And he's one of those guys that's either pinned or crashing....in about equal amounts but he's no slow poke.I think I was unclear, not you
Tires?As for those companies. Schwable has 4 downhill tires in soft compound. Continental has 2. What do you mean by as soon as they start making some?
Is that what they're calling those things?
good writeup Kidwoo. Thanks for the effort.
I'm going to try one to replace my rear DHF. That thing is beat after this year-to-date. I used to run DHF/HR combo and always loved it.
I'm going to try one to replace my rear DHF. That thing is beat after this year-to-date. I used to run DHF/HR combo and always loved it.
That bad? I know a lot of people swear by them. I have to steal that kaiser tire from my father for some testing.
I don't believe they are bad tires, they just seem to have tread patterns that don't make sense to kidwoo but apparently work pretty well.
That said, it seems to me that people riding Continental DH tires get more punctures than others. And some people say they have to have more pressure than Maxxis tires, so Continentals probably have less rigid sidewalls.
Unfortunately I don't have any firsthand experience, all the DH tires I have had have been ancient Nokian's or 2.7" Minion DHF's.
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Oh they make perfect sense. Do something against convention to appear like you're onto something, make something up to justify it, pay a bunch of fast riders to run them, and voila!
They make knobs on a round thing, make them out of sticky rubber and that's really all it takes to make a tire that works 'pretty well'. And most people can't tell what their tires are doing or why they're doing it anyway so it doesn't take much.
Mr. Woo, you might need to consider that there is a small chance that you don't know it all about tire design. 
This kid absolutely caned it down Ft. William on tires that break all the Woo design criteria. The knobs are backwards and upside down and inside out.
Now I am in agreement with most of your opinions, but I wouldn't presume to say that I'm always right. There are a lot of different surfaces and a lot of different riding preferences out there. There might be more going on in that contact patch than you're aware of!
This kid absolutely caned it down Ft. William on tires that break all the Woo design criteria. The knobs are backwards and upside down and inside out.
Now I am in agreement with most of your opinions, but I wouldn't presume to say that I'm always right. There are a lot of different surfaces and a lot of different riding preferences out there. There might be more going on in that contact patch than you're aware of!
Consider this: Danny Hart would always ride in a straight line and never slide around if he were on different tires.
I'm kidding, I'm kidding! Easy target.
So let's try this: Pick a schwalbe tire and individually explain how each knob achieves something you want in a mountain bike tread. I've done it with some other tires, let's hear how schwalbe does it.
So far BuckoW is the only one who's offered some insight into schwalbe's approach (and even he said he disagreed with it). I've been doing this a while and so far all anyone can say is "so and so fast rider is on them so they must be good". That doesn't cut it. Tires are not a black box with some mysterious function that can't be understood.
I'm not trying to be confrontational, I'm genuinely curious. I might git sum lernin too
I'm kidding, I'm kidding! Easy target.
So let's try this: Pick a schwalbe tire and individually explain how each knob achieves something you want in a mountain bike tread. I've done it with some other tires, let's hear how schwalbe does it.
So far BuckoW is the only one who's offered some insight into schwalbe's approach (and even he said he disagreed with it). I've been doing this a while and so far all anyone can say is "so and so fast rider is on them so they must be good". That doesn't cut it. Tires are not a black box with some mysterious function that can't be understood.
I'm not trying to be confrontational, I'm genuinely curious. I might git sum lernin too
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OK, I'll bite.
The Schwalbe knobs run in the opposite direction because they provide more stiffness and resistance to folding over in this direction. The cornering force is pushing along the length of the knob, rather than the width, so they are inherently stronger.
This is mainly a benefit on hard surfaces, but our pro riders have found the benefit on hard surfaces is greater than the tiny drawback on loose surfaces that may arise due to the width of the knob not facing the sliding direction.
BTW, I kinda made up the part about the pro riders. But you never know, they COULD have said that...
Wouldn't that be more a function of thickness and not angle direction? Why give up bite on looseness when you could just make the knobs more rigid?
Because the way schwalbe angles them (think about how a rolling tire progresses along the knobs, which end hits first etc) they would actually be LESS supported laterally at the beginning of contact. The first part that hits is the most 'outside' end. The opposite angles (the more traditional way of doing sideknobs) would actually do a better job of what you're saying.
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So woo, give me your cliff notes on this tread pattern.
Ha, I have been running these on my trailbike for a year, but just got the DH versions 2 rides ago.
(FWIW the forward facing knobs are all ramped, but it does not show well in the pic.)
Ha, I have been running these on my trailbike for a year, but just got the DH versions 2 rides ago.
(FWIW the forward facing knobs are all ramped, but it does not show well in the pic.)
yo jeremy! what's the compound like on your trail version? how does it compare to something like the older michelin DH tires?So woo, give me your cliff notes on this tread pattern.
Ha, I have been running these on my trailbike for a year, but just got the DH versions 2 rides ago.
Is it now 'fvck with woo' time?
That 'real' pic looks a lot better than the rendering. Looks like that side channel could be wider but there's definitely nothing blatantly contradictory on that tread. Looks to me like it would work pretty well. Seems like the widest set of centerknobs might block access to the sides and make it a little slippery on the way over but not horrible. Does that wide center channel keep it clear of goop?
That 'real' pic looks a lot better than the rendering. Looks like that side channel could be wider but there's definitely nothing blatantly contradictory on that tread. Looks to me like it would work pretty well. Seems like the widest set of centerknobs might block access to the sides and make it a little slippery on the way over but not horrible. Does that wide center channel keep it clear of goop?
First off, just so you know, I'm playing devil's advocate here. I'm not saying I'm right.
I'm assuming that we are considering a rectangular knob, like the Schwalbe shoulder knob. Your hypothesis is that the long edge of that rectangled knob should be perpendicular to the direction of sliding so that the long edge bites in to resist sliding. Valid hypothesis. So the knob should be angled in the conventional way (arrow pointing in the rolling direction). However, that hypothesis also includes a drawback...geometrically, the knob will fold over easier in this direction due to it's rectangular shape.
The way Schwalbe tells you to run them, the block will resist the cornering forces better and be less likely to fold over.
Yes, you could strengthen the knob and make it thicker, but we are not redesigning the tire. I guess I'm just saying their could be trade offs that we are unaware of, such as this one. And based on your review, it does appear you have a tendency to fold them knobs over!
Honestly, it does not compare at all.
The trail version has a harder compound for sure.
IMO, it grips similar to a Maxxis 60 tire.
I actually had the 2.25 wildrock'r on the front and a 2.25 Maxxis advantage 60 on the rear and ran them both in the ground. I like that setup for trail.
One other thing, these damn tires run BIG. The 2.25 is easily as big as the 2.5 comp 16 if not rounder. I just rode the 2.5 wildrock'r dh tires for 2 days straight and they are huge. I wish I would have gotten the 2.25 dh tires as well.
woo - i think schwalbe might run the side knobs backwards on tires like the muddy mary for high angle counter steer (see picture of danny hart, and imagine how the backwards cornering knobs are pulling that front tire back in line around the corner).
now granted, you need to be way aggressive need that to helpy, but for more mellow riding, the cornering knobs on the muddy mary will flex a little bit more, and make the tire a little less aggressive in engagement, which a lot of people prefer.
i personally want to chop all the intermediate knobs off a muddy mary and see what happens... though i think it would need to be run backwards of recommended to keep the cornering row from over flexing with all that open space to load into them.
now granted, you need to be way aggressive need that to helpy, but for more mellow riding, the cornering knobs on the muddy mary will flex a little bit more, and make the tire a little less aggressive in engagement, which a lot of people prefer.
i personally want to chop all the intermediate knobs off a muddy mary and see what happens... though i think it would need to be run backwards of recommended to keep the cornering row from over flexing with all that open space to load into them.
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You never even mentioned a specific tread so I don't even really know what you're addressing. I was just speaking to the angle of sideknobs in general (which schwalbe consistently angles a certain way)First off, just so you know, I'm playing devil's advocate here. I'm not saying I'm right.
I'm assuming that we are considering a rectangular knob, like the Schwalbe shoulder knob. Your hypothesis is that the long edge of that rectangled knob should be perpendicular to the direction of sliding so that the long edge bites in to resist sliding. Valid hypothesis. So the knob should be angled in the conventional way (arrow pointing in the rolling direction). However, that hypothesis also includes a drawback...geometrically, the knob will fold over easier in this direction due to it's rectangular shape.
The way Schwalbe tells you to run them, the block will resist the cornering forces better and be less likely to fold over.
Yes, you could strengthen the knob and make it thicker, but we are not redesigning the tire. I guess I'm just saying their could be trade offs that we are unaware of, such as this one. And based on your review, it does appear you have a tendency to fold them knobs over!
For what it's worth, the 'conventional' arrow points in the opposite direction of travel.....I'm talking on the tire patch, not what the tire looks like on top.
But the point of that arrow hits the dirt first on conventional angle, last the way schwalbe runs it. Only that point offers support 'along' the rectangle regardless of order. Do you want that support at the beginning or the end of contact when leaving one knob and going to the next? The more conventional angle puts it at the beginning....right after a blank space with no knob. Both directions at some point offer the lateral support along the knob that you describe. The only difference in that regard is when it happens. The schwalbe angle doesn't make that characteristic unique. And it does have some drawbacks......pretty big ones.
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Yep, they clear mud well.
I really like the tread pattern.
I have only 2 days on the DH version, and the conditions were super dry and as loose as it gets for around here.
They gripped really well in these conditions, and I really noticed, compared to the 16's, the knobs are much firmer and do not bend nearly as much. So, in the conditions I was riding, they worked great.
The real test is how they are gonna hold up on wet rocks and roots. I can't imagine they will be as good as the 16's are there.