[spookydave]

and they have MAJOR ATTITUDE.

And so would you if you knew you were getting a rope around your balls. lol

Loo, I knew you were a crazy f'er but that is over the top.

 

[maxyedor]

Great pics there Shrymp! But next time go somewhere other than TJ and chances are the food won't hurt your digestive system. I love the culture and the scenery in Mexico (I even enjoy going to the bullfights, it's OK to hate me for that) gut absolutly can't stand TJ. It is less of a foreign land and more of a haven for UCSD and SDSU students to get drunk and pick up hookers.

 

[ridetoofast]

I have much respect for both bullfighters and bullriders. Ever since I worked a fraternity fundraiser cleaning up after a rodeo(the trash, not the $hit), I have had even MORE respect for them. One of the bulls had to be kept far away from the others and it was penned up next to a huge industrial dumpster, so I had to walk right by the thing probably 50 times that night. They are HUGE and they are MUSCULAR to the point that they look like they are on 'roids(which they MAY be unwittingly) and they have MAJOR ATTITUDE. It is hard to believe that Spanish fighting bulls are even considerably more so than rodeo bulls.

Spanish fighting bulls are the cream of the bovine crop, bred for strength, size, attitude and "bravery". They are revered by the Spanish, who see them as exemplifying all that is good and noble in themselves. It is hard to explain in eurocentric terms that might make sense here, but it is their great LOVE of the bulls which drives the Spanish to kill them in that fashion. They see the only fitting death for a creature SO beautiful is a brave, honorable one...much like a warrior who would rather die on the battlefield a hero than of old age in his bed. The entire animal is used and not wasted and the bullfight is to the Spanish akin to an American Indian praying to the great spirit for the soul of an animal he has killed.

Bullfighting should not be lumped in with other diversions prevalent in the Spanish community that are considered animal cruelty, e.g. cockfighting, because it is not gratuitous cruelty for pruriant enjoyment. It is killing a fully-utilized animal resource in the way believed to be best for those particular animals. I know this may not make sense topically, but a Spaniard might argue that our(US) method of killing bovines caged in a tiny pen within a slaughterhouse with a sledgehammer is MORE cruel than growing them lovingly in comparative comfort and putting them in a ring with their prospective executioner to meet their end bravely and on their feet.

Now, regarding some of your specific protests:

1) They are not simply stabbed to death; they are weakened with banderillas placed in the bull's trapezius/shoulder muscles in order to cause them to lower their horns and expose their hearts...which are then pierced with the single thrust of a sword.
2) Bullfighters use a muleta(and body position, banderillas, etc.) to control a bull- not trick it, per se. I would suggest that a bullrider's rope and spurs provide even more of an advantage for the human than a muleta does.
3) Bullfighters come in physical contact with the bulls, also, but instead of sitting on them, they cause the animal to charge and wind around their bodies with the muleta so closely that often the toreador's shirt and pants are smeared with the blood of the bull as it passes. If a toreador can cause a bull to pierce and tear with its horns any part of the traje de luces- without flinching a hair- it is considered by the spectators an even greater display of control.

Please don't think I try to diminish bullriders at all with the comparison, but bullriding even a creature like Bodacious for 7 seconds in gear is just not close in danger to bullfighting a Spanish fighting bull for 15 minutes in spandex...and doing so with elegance and without flinching or showing even the smallest amount of fear. I would rather take my chances riding 10 bulls than fighting one.

well thought out, eloquent, and succint. i will confess that i was ignorant of the fact that at least the animal is consumed and not merely killed just for sport. i am familiar with the noble death of a warrior in combat, however, i typically associate that concept with two reasoning human beings, not a simplistic animal who has no reasoning capability. i do not doubt or argue that it takes enormous skill and bravery for them to do what they do, however, at the end fo the day, your mileage will vary, whatever expression you choose to apply to it, it is still an animal being slaugthered for sport and entertain ment and i simply cannot stomach that.

i guess in this particular perspective or vein, perhaps i am a tree huggin, peta lovin, left wing freak (dont we all have subliminal conflicts after all?) but other than livestock or culling type kills for overpopulation, leave animals the fvck alone. i guess your mileage will vary, that just happens to be my perspective. flame away if you will, thats just how i feel and am unflinching in my perspective...

shrymp, btw, my post wasn't intended as a flame, merely that i just feel very strongly on topics such as this. i can appreciate your desire to be exposed to different cultural experience, i just simply find this particular subject repugnant regardless of their justifications that they offer.

 

[Ciaran]

I have much respect for both bullfighters and bullriders... <snip> I would rather take my chances riding 10 bulls than fighting one.

Well said, and very well explained. Thank you.

So Heather, is Orvan going to be starting bullfighting lessons to better utilize the pink socks? Or is he going to ride in ballet slippers? (He'll still be WAY faster than I am!) Great photos, great thread!

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

am not very fond of bullfighting, dont like the sadistic part, yet i admire it for some reason.....

i think the manoletina is the awesomest.. gaoneras a close second....

there was a picture of one of the ordo&#241;ez doing a face to face (like 10 inches apart) with the bull.. one of the most awesome pictures, but i couldnt find it...

 

[Shyrmp]

Then you haven't seen the uber hucktastic LOOnatic ride bulls then.
In total street clothes with lots of uh.......flair.

I know its "their" culture and all but IMO the bulls are supremely powerful beats that warrant a better fate then to be stabbed to death.
When you have ridden them you will be awestruck by their physical prowess.
Think about riding a 2000 lbs. pitbull with no gear on.
Its a rush.
Makes DH kinda tame in comparison.

The other reason i think it's better is that in a traditional bullfight the fighter has a bunch of tricks he uses like the cape and prancing around. Sure its fun to watch in an antagonizing way by whatever.

A bullrider has no tricks and makes close contact with the brama for the duration.
Lemme say this, sure it takes bravado to stand in the ring with a bull runnung at ya but to ease down in the pen and straddle one before the ride is shear heart stopping.
The only thing you got is you, the bull and a piece of rope in your hand.
And then the gate opens and weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

bah!
This graphic picture should calm you down.

-goose

 

[llkoolkeg]

bah!
This graphic picture should calm you down.

...or work you up, as the case may be. I wouldn't necessarily call it graphic, though, as that well-endowed spectator's d'ecolletage is barely visible from this particular angle.