[BurlyShirley]

Has there been subsequent investigation? Nope....

There simply is no need. The building you speak of was destroyed, but from pictures I saw, it was not in the same manner as the others. Jet fuel is not terrible explosive either, but you saw what I saw. Why could not diesel to the same in the end?
As MikeD said earlier, its just too big a conspiracy to even think of pulling off. Too many people involved and no reward at the end of the day for doing it. What has the government gained? A war in Iraq? A recession? Who profits and how does the person profiting convince the CIA (non politically aligned with the white house at this time) to go along with it?
You cannot give a reasonable explanation for these facts. There are witnesses who SAW a plane hit the pentagon and I PMd you the information to check it out yourself. There were people on cell phones with their spouses ON THE HIJACKED PLANES that described what went down. There is no conspiracy.

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

yup, it boils down to the trust you have in people. I got none, I´m convinced that people, specially politicians will do anything given enough cash (in fact, i think that is the main reason people go to politics).
like my in-law says, "everybody has a price, but the art is in buying them while they are on sale"

IMO its obvious enough for me accept the idea that the US corpo-lobby-democratic system works in the very same way I´m first-hand certain SouthAmerica works.

I dont see difference substancial enough to think the opposite. (you can argue the fact we are poor overall says so, but that has to do more with other factors than a lobby-system)

But IMO this conjunction of economic and political power due to a lobby system is the biggest reason for the wealth inequality you see around here, and which seems to be what the US is transforming into.

 

[MikeD]

There were people on cell phones with their spouses ON THE HIJACKED PLANES that described what went down. There is no conspiracy.

Wow. How can I have been so stupid to not bring that up before?
Thanks...I felt like I was taking crazy pills!

 

[Changleen]

There simply is no need.

So, the official investigation said there was a need, but Burly says: No, Don't worry. Iknow what happened.

The building you speak of was destroyed, but from pictures I saw, it was not in the same manner as the others.

Which pictures did you see? How about these:Linky Hmm, looks the same to me! Note the lack of damage to the outside of the building. Listen to the remarks of the commentator..

Jet fuel is not terrible explosive either, but you saw what I saw. Why could not diesel to the same in the end?

Because it wasn't smashed into anything 'at 500+mph' as you put it..In fact it was in large, reinforced tanks deep inside the building, designed to still be around after an emergency or disaster...

As MikeD said earlier, its just too big a conspiracy to even think of pulling off. Too many people involved and no reward at the end of the day for doing it.

Why? Look throughout this thread you have denied that external organisations have any influence on everyday events. Alexis has pretty much owned you in this argument, but you still insist that no, it's not happening and it never has. The USA is REALLY GOOD at keeping secrets. It has completed huge engineering projects involving thousands of people in secret. Just because YOU think it would be too hard - Maybe some people are better at planning that you?

What has the government gained? A war in Iraq? A recession? Who profits and how does the person profiting convince the CIA (non politically aligned with the white house at this time) to go along with it?
You cannot give a reasonable explanation for these facts.

What has PNAC gained? Exactly what they want. What has the Jewish lobby gained? Exactly what they want. What have Republican hawks gained? Excatly what they want... I could go on...but...

There are witnesses who SAW a plane hit the pentagon and I PMd you the information to check it out yourself.

There are also a lot of people who say they saw a small, commuter sized plane, or maybe a military plane fly into the Pentagon. Who should you believe? Well, I'd start by looking at the hole that it made...

There were people on cell phones with their spouses ON THE HIJACKED PLANES that described what went down. There is no conspiracy.

Like they guy who called his mum and said "Hi Mum, It's Peter Smith"... oh and

Cell phones traveling in airliners can get a service signal at heights up to some 6,000 ft, but it is not possible to make a connection, at least not while traveling at the usual cruising speed of a normal airliner (500-550 mph). Since in all cases (if at all) connections could only be established well after the pilots have pulled out the landing gear at some 2,000 ft and at a cruising speed of 230 mph or less, it seems safe to conclude that no connection could be made with a cell phone from an airliner flying in the U.S. when above an altitude above ground of 2,000 ft (610 m) and when traveling with a speed over 230 mph.

 

[BurlyShirley]

What has the Jewish lobby gained?

Oh, you're one of those guys too? Just when I thought it couldnt possibly get any more pathetic...

And I wondered why you were so against Lord Opie in the Israel debate...

 

[Changleen]

Glad to see you you are so proficient at thread derailment. OH, I said 'Jewish lobby'! I must be a fvcking NAZI! Why don't you actually respond to the argument rather than picking little holes in my supposed biases?

 

[MikeD]

How does the Airfone in the plane work? Is it not a cell phone (sat-phone or whatever?) or does it just have a massive antenna that lets it work at altitude/speed?

 

[BurlyShirley]

Glad to see you you are so proficient at thread derailment. OH, I said 'Jewish lobby'! I must be a fvcking NAZI! Why don't you actually respond to the argument rather than picking little holes in my supposed biases?

What's the point Goebels? Jews control the planet.

 

[Changleen]

What's the point Goebels? Jews control the planet.

OK, Thread over. You Lose.
"Failure to argue - falls back on personal insult"

 

[BurlyShirley]

OK, Thread over. You Lose.
"Failure to argue - falls back on personal insult"

You win. It was the jews.

 

[Changleen]

How does the Airfone in the plane work? Is it not a cell phone (sat-phone or whatever?) or does it just have a massive antenna that lets it work at altitude/speed?

I don't know. Anyway according to the Government, all the calls were made from cell phones.

 

[MikeD]

I was just trying to establish that you couldn't actually make a call from a cell phone in a moving plane...not that they used Airfones to call.

 

[BurlyShirley]

I was just trying to establish that you couldn't actually make a call from a cell phone in a moving plane...not that they used Airfones to call.

They do have taped calls from people on their cell phones as their spouses talked to them. Todd Beamer being the one I remember most. Dont let Changleen throw out some erronious crap to detract from actual evidence.

 

[Changleen]

I was just trying to establish that you couldn't actually make a call from a cell phone in a moving plane...not that they used Airfones to call.

Ah, OK. I'll look it up.

 

[Changleen]

They do have taped calls from people on their cell phones as their spouses talked to them. Todd Beamer being the one I remember most. Dont let Changleen throw out some erronious crap to detract from actual evidence.

Post your evidence then...

 

[MikeD]

They do have taped calls from people on their cell phones as their spouses talked to them. Todd Beamer being the one I remember most. Dont let Changleen throw out some erronious crap to detract from actual evidence.

Oh, I know...Changleen's just insisting that they're fakes. I was just thinking that if Airfones operate like cell phones, we might have a real inroad in disproving some of the conspiracy in a blatant enough fashion for him to conceed. But I'm sure the CIA has a way around it all anyhow.

 

[Changleen]

They do have taped calls from people on their cell phones as their spouses talked to them. Todd Beamer being the one I remember most. Dont let Changleen throw out some erronious crap to detract from actual evidence.

Good job they thought to do suveillence on those particular planes, those particular phones - the ones on the plane they couldn't even find to intercept with F-16s....

 

[BurlyShirley]

Good job they thought to do suveillence on those particular planes, those particular phones - the ones on the plane they couldn't even find to intercept with F-16s....

You mean planes that mysteriously go off course and the pilots cant be contacted, and then voices in arabic come over the radio. Yeah, Id say it was a good thing they had surveillance on these particular planes.

 

[MikeD]

Good job they thought to do suveillence on those particular planes, those particular phones - the ones on the plane they couldn't even find to intercept with F-16s....

I don't think you need to know a phone's physical location to listen in to it...

But who did make the tapes? Interesting question. I always assumed people just taped the calls when they received them...but that's a bit odd. Were the call records furnished by cell phone companies, the gov't, or the individuals who were called?

 

[Changleen]

Just been looking into this. It seems that most of the calls were trancriptsmade after the event - people just 'remebering' the calls that they'd recieved.

Here:

Flight 11

Madeline Sweeney's phone call: Flight attendant Sweeney allegedly placed a cell phone call to her ground manager Michael Woodward starting at 8:21 and talked for 25 minutes, until the plane crashed. The caller related many details such as wounds by victims of the hijackers to seat numbers of the hijackers. There are conflicting reports on whether the call was recorded.

Betty Ong's phone call: Flight attendant Betty Ong allegedly called Vanessa Minter at American Airlines reservations at 8:21, and talked for 25 minutes, until the plane crashed. Nydia Gonzales also listened in from 8:27. The FBI has refused to release a recording of the first 4 minutes of the conversation.

Flight 175

Peter Burton Hanson's phone call: Passenger Peter Burton called his father and reported details of the hijacking. The call was repeated as he was cut off several times.

Brian Sweeney's phone call: Passenger Brian Sweeney attempted to call his wife but could only leave a message.

unnamed female flight attendant call: There appears to be no public evidence of this call.

Flight 77

Barbara Olson's calls: Barbara Olson allegedly placed two calls to her husband, Ted Olson. The only known evidence of these calls are statements by Olson, the first on September 12th.

Flight 93

calls to family members and friends: thirteen passengers made cell phone calls, most of them short and some repeated, according to analysis of transcripts of recollections, compiled from various sources, by Prof. A. K. Dewdney. Only two of the calls were recorded, according to Dewdney.

the last call: At 9:58, a frantic passenger called from a bathroom to report an explosion and smoke. The tape of this 911 call was seized by the FBI. The 911 operator who took the call, Glenn Cramer, was told by the FBI not to discuss the call.

Linkys:
http://multimedia.belointeractive.com/attack/investigation/1005hijackercar.html
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/primetime/DailyNews/primetime_flightattendants_020718.html
http://www.boston.com/news/packages/underattack/news/planes_reconstruction.htm
http://www.startribune.com/stories/484/703150.html

 

[BurlyShirley]

so here we have evidence of numerous calls from the plane which you just said could not have happened. Where are you going with this?

 

[Changleen]

Oh My God... Can you not even READ?
'There are conflicting reports on whether the call was recorded. '
'The FBI has refused to release a recording of the first 4 minutes of the conversation.'
'There appears to be no public evidence of this call.'
'The only known evidence of these calls are statements by Olson, the first on September 12th.'
'The 911 operator who took the call, Glenn Cramer, was told by the FBI not to discuss the call. '

 

[BurlyShirley]

That is simply not the entire list of calls. Todd Beamer's wife was on TV and they played the recording for THE ENTIRE NATION TO HEAR just days after 911. Where is that on your list?

 

[Changleen]

Just days? Wow, how utterly credible!

 

[BurlyShirley]

Just days? Wow, how utterly credible!

wow...

Well, I hope you like my sig anyway. That one's gunna stick around.

 

[Changleen]

People will think you're just like N8....How cute...

 

[ummbikes]

Burly I read Mrs. Beamer's book this summer and do not recall that there was any mention by her of speaking to her husband on the cell phone. There was however a rather touching and sad chapter about when she finally gained confirmation that her husband was on a plane that had crashed. Then again I remember the whole "...let's roll." comment attributed to Todd Beamer being played over and over again.

Did any else read the book? Did she talk to him and some reason not mention that fact in the book?

 

[genpowell71]

People will think you're just like N8....How cute...

I thought you were N8

 

[Skookum]

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