[mykel]

This won't really matter being all are 26"...

I gotz three. All unrideable too many linkz Knollies.

Endorphin 140mm
Delirium 170mm
Podum 215mm

I ride the Endo and Podium, the Delirium which used to be my "one" bike now gets used pretty much exclusively by my son when he deems me worthy enough to accompany me to the DH park. (I have two forks for it, a 170mm coil Lyric and a 180mm Ti coil 66.)

I tried to one bike thing, but after a few years gave it up for what I really need - a trail bike for the normally flat / rolling terrain, and the big bike for killing rox and rootz. Even with two forks and two wheelsets, it was just too much bike for normal trial riding, perfect for DH flow trails, and not enough for full gnar - especially now that I am getting older, balls are shrinking, skills are declining(see balls are shrinking), I no longer bounce and the need for insurance (215mm of it) just a a bit more often than I would like to admit.

About the only advantage the Delirium had in my normal riding, would be for doing something stupid that the Endo just may protest - such as dropping a retaining wall when riding around town, or that nasty side of trail rock drop into rootball you have been eyeing up....

 

[kidwoo]

I'm hungover to fuck so I'm going to have to ask. Why those 3 and not the other 2?

Seriously... That Capra I got has DH geometry and sizing (it's just as long, slack (63deg)

It's frame construction, it's travel, and part of it is how the things are built up. Those bikes like the capra are targeting a specific trail bike weight, so the frames reflect that. They're dh frame weighs more for a reason. Just adding space for a longer shock and changing geo doesn't add weight, it's appreciably beefed up. I've done some scary stuff on a 4" travel slopestyle bike that I'd never do on my 30lb trail bike. Because that little 4" travel bike I'm talking about weighed 35lbs with all air suspension. Yes the geo numbers are definitely there, no question about that. But wheels, tires and swingarms aren't. I'll even grant you the headtube to BB construction on the carbon frame trail bikes are there now too. That horrible feeling of compressing into hard turns hauling ass and feeling your bottom bracket move two inches to the outside and then rebound back has largely been eliminated on those. When I think 'mini-dh' I think a bike built exactly the same as a dh bike, just with shorter travel.

I've watched a friend of mine who's a really good bike rider insist on riding a trail we built on his trail bike and almost kill himself multiple times when his enduro flexes so hard in some of the pocket turn g-outs he knocked a tire off.......this going up the lip of a 40ish foot double at about 30 mph. It's something his enduro evo (and my old last gen sx trail) with dh wheels and tires never flinched on. I flat out told him I'm going to physically block him from riding his trail bike there again. Geometry alone doesn't do it.

There are forces that go into dh and dh-ish bikes (if you're really riding them to their potential) that just aren't accounted for in the design of trail bikes and 6-7lb frames, because they're designed to be within that weight so that they're tolerable climbing. If it's not something that's part of your world, then that's cool. It's rad you've got a bike that light that you can do the same things on. But up until very recently I've always had a heavy 7inch travel freeride-kinda bike and I can categorically tell you that there are some things I did regularly on those bikes that I absolutely will not try on any trail bike. Some of it sure (like below on a megatrail), but they're not a direct replacement.

http://blistergearreview.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Kevin-Megatrail-jump-weee-RT-1020-640x470.jpg

^On stuff like that, it's not the jump that spooks me, it's the mach stupid runout at the bottom that goes right into a hard drifting turn. Know what I mean?

 

[Gary]

When I think 'mini-dh' I think a bike built exactly the same as a dh bike, just with shorter travel.

I entirely get what you're saying... a Mini DH bike means the same thing to me too. infact I still have shorter travel HEAVIER bikes for this very reason... hell my everyday 100mm hardtail is 30lb with single plys for the simple reason I don't want to have to avoid or hold back on stuff because I don't think the bike is upto it even on an XC ride.

Who said anything about my Capra weighing 30lb?
it doesn't!
it's 32-34 depending on tyre choice. and has Woo aproved StrongwheelzTM remember
So I'm not really worrying about flex in my wheels. I also run 32-35psi up front 40 rear. everywhere on every bike. even all sloppy Scottish winter. I like stiff bikes, parts and wheels and can't stand tyre squirm. it's been many many years since I've had any tyre roll on any bike. Seriously... I'll give up grip for a solid tread edge every time.
so far I'm not feeling BB/Swingarm flex any worse than I have on a DH bike. Surprised me too.
the carbon seatstay may be helping this. I honestly don't know.
if I'm honest I'm actually more worried about the lack of weight in the lyrik. it's lighter than any fork I've owned and I tend to bend a few every year.

It was never an intention to replace my DH bike with this thing so I do have the luxury of still having a DH bike for proper #Bravedayz

I'm fully ready to accept this bike will have it's limits. the biggest confusion in my still drunk head from your comment was saying YES to the Swoop over the Capra... I came kinda close to getting one of those over this.

anyway... back on topic. - if you want a DH bike with shorter travel as said earlier just run the one you have over sprung. I did that for years when 200mm forks became the norm. I just prefer less travel upfront. #LOVEbackwheel
If you want a legit DH bike that you can ride uphill/all day then all you have to do is put in the effort to become fitter and stronger.

 

[Jm_]

If you want a legit DH bike that you can ride uphill/all day then all you have to do is buy an E bike.

FIFY

 

[MrBaker87]

I own a 2014 Banshee Rune frame and I love riding it everywhere throughout the Pacific Northwest, including but not limited to Black Rock (any trail), all day rides in Pemberton, long XC days in Oakridge, OR and loads of days in Whistler Bike Park (I mostly stick to Garbo gnar).

I have it set up with a 170mm fork and offset bushings for super slack angles. I run 26" dh wheels and tires with the longer 650b dropouts in the lowest setting.

While not as sturdy on huge, fast jumps ala dirty merch or freight train as my dh bike, I have never had a single problem. I am not the strongest, most fearless jumper though, so I am not claiming much.

However, I concur that the rune is an excellent mini dh bike when set up well.

 

[hitar_potar]

@MrBaker87 - can you elaborate on the offset bushings? Isn't there any danger in the shockpossibly hitting the frame when compressing? How much offset do you have in your bushings? The most i've seen possible is 3mm on each side, and this is if you have smaller axles going through the hardware(i think 6mm ones). If bigger, it's only 2mm offset per side. AND ALL THISIF THE FRAME IS OK WITH SUCH A THING IN THE FIRST PLACE AND NOT BOTTOMING OUT BEFORE THE SHOCK!!!
Have you measured how exactly is your geo changed?

 

[saruti]

my downhill bike makes me faster. so I try using it once a month on a real downhill trails with a lift.
I also try to get to ride it a day or two before any enduro\mini DH race.

 

[Sandwich]

#makedhgreatagain

crashes hurt a lot more on a thin walled aluminum bike or carbon nano thing (in the wallet). A burly aluminum frame shrugs it off.

I tried this before with an enduro 29er as a "one bike quiver". I did one day of DH and said screw it. There is just no replacement for a DH bike.

 

[MrBaker87]

@MrBaker87 - can you elaborate on the offset bushings? Isn't there any danger in the shockpossibly hitting the frame when compressing? How much offset do you have in your bushings? The most i've seen possible is 3mm on each side, and this is if you have smaller axles going through the hardware(i think 6mm ones). If bigger, it's only 2mm offset per side. AND ALL THISIF THE FRAME IS OK WITH SUCH A THING IN THE FIRST PLACE AND NOT BOTTOMING OUT BEFORE THE SHOCK!!!
Have you measured how exactly is your geo changed?

The Rune utilizes hardware based around an 8mm bolt. I got the greatest offset my hardware would allow (without looking it up and based on your post, I am guessing 2mm per offset reducer). I measured either a .8 or .9deg change in my headangle after installing offset hardware. I have been running this set-up since May or June of 2014 and the frame has absolutely never had an issue with either a Rock Shox Vivid 5.1 coil shock or a Cane Creek Double Barrel Air CS. If i did it all over again, I'd likely opt for a Works Angleset to preserve stock shock ramping characteristics and seat angle. But i am broke and make terrible wages, so i likely won't ever switch. Newer Mk2 Runes (2015+) are .5degrees slacker and longer than my model. I believe they also trimmed quite a bit of weight in the latest 2017 model.

My current setup is something like 62.8deg with the offset reducers, flipchips in lowest, slackest setting and with the fairly shitty 170mm x-fusion vengeance hlr fork up front.

 

[kidwoo]

I tried this before with an enduro 29er as a "one bike quiver". I did one day of DH and said screw it. There is just no replacement for a DH bike.

I blame luke strobel for making people think wheelsize is a suitable substitute for your sponsor not making a dh bike.

 

[Sandwich]

I blame luke stroebel for being unnaturally talented on any bike...

 

[kidwoo]

I blame luke stroebel for being unnaturally talented on any bike...

I watched charliebot not complete his race run at nationals last year, and Strobel get beat by about twenty people he's faster than after both showing up on 29er trail bikes.

Sometimes you just need a bike.

 

[iRider]

 

[hitar_potar]

The Rune utilizes hardware based around an 8mm bolt. I got the greatest offset my hardware would allow (without looking it up and based on your post, I am guessing 2mm per offset reducer). I measured either a .8 or .9deg change in my headangle after installing offset hardware. I have been running this set-up since May or June of 2014 an
d the frame has absolutely never had an issue with either a Rock Shox Vivid 5.1 coil shock or a Cane Creek Double Barrel Air CS. If i did it all over again, I'd likely opt for a Works Angleset to preserve stock shock ramping characteristics and seat angle. But i am broke and make terrible wages, so i likely won't ever switch. Newer Mk2 Runes (2015+) are .5degrees slacker and longer than my model. I believe they also trimmed quite a bit of weight in the latest 2017 model.
My current setup is something like 62.8deg with the offset reducers, flipchips in lowest, slackest setting and with the fairly shitty 170mm x-fusion vengeance hlr fork up front.

Wow, a 62.8deg.... that's only around 1 - 1.5deg steeper than my Sundaywith -3deg angleset and raised Dorado Pro... Daaamn!!!
How do you like this slack HA for general riding, not park riding? I am weighing the possibility of selling my Sunday and Dorado fork in order to fund a Rune and a single crown (all while keeping all my other Saint stuff). I'm getting older and am no longer able to ride the Sunday as it should be ridden (never been actually - i'm no Sam Hill! ), and it's also holding me back on lighter rides in the mountain or on general commuting in the city. Kinda the reason i'm in this thread as well.

 

[MrBaker87]

As it just so happens, I had a nice iron Horse Sunday Wc m/l frame up until recently with 2.0 deg angleset, a fox 40 at max height and a dhx rc4.

I got the rune to replace a 2012 Santa Cruz Heckler. That alone was a night and day difference. It allowed me to ride the local downhill trails on my rune at the same speed and comfort as my Sunday (a few exceptions arose). After thoroughly thrashing my Sunday last year (29 days in Whistler Bike Park plus who knows how many other days around Oregon/Washington downhill) I finally started riding my rune more and more in parks and on really gnarly trails and it worked just fine. Definitely thought about not running. A dh bike at all any more. However, I love riding the park and shuttling which can take a toll on your bikes, so when the opportunity arose to buy a brand new prototype diamondback db8 26" frame in L, I jumped on it. The rune handles well in the park and I do not hesitate to ride it, however there is nothing like blasting down from Garbo to the bottom of the FitZ on a 8" travel bike.

As far as the super slack angle of my trail bike, I honestly only notice it on very tight xc trails that I really don't enjoy riding anyway. I got the idea from the nicolai Geometron frames. Previous to this summer, I ran a 2012 fox 36 160mm and I preferred the bb height from that and the 63.5 ha. But it was old and abused and so when the damper went out, it got retired.