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ABCNews has gotta be choking on their Iraqi poll....

N8 v2.0

Not the sharpest tool in the shed
Oct 18, 2002
11,003
149
The Cleft of Venus
...but the what about the freedom fighters who are killing Iraqis in order to liberate them..??? Don't the Iraqi people know that this election is a joke according to liberals world-wide?

ABC News Assesses Where Things Stand in Iraq on Election's Eve

Perhaps the most remarkable finding is a positive one: Iraqis are hopeful and optimistic despite the profound difficulties they face in their daily lives. The surveys and the anecdotal interviews are filled with examples of people who told us, "We feel less safe," "We have less money," "We have less electricity," etc. — and then closed by saying, "We believe our lives are getting better."

Optimists and pessimists alike seem to hold out hope for the elections. Nationwide, more than three-quarters of our respondents said (a) they plan to vote and (b) they believe in democracy. Jan. 30 is seen as a watershed — even by those who say they intend to boycott the vote. One is certainly left with the impression that people will be less likely to tolerate problems after the election.

Optimism in the face of so many quality-of-life complaints is perhaps the most interesting finding in this report.

We checked our surveys against the most recent national poll conducted in Iraq and found similar sentiments. The International Republican Institute's November 2004 survey found a wave of specific complaints, and then asked a basic question: "Do you believe your life one year from today will be better or worse?" Sixty-six percent of Iraqis answered "better," and only 13 percent said worse.

This is consistent with the sentiments voiced by the 1,300 Iraqis we spoke to. Most said their lives were better today than before the war, and most thought they would be better still in a year's time.

Enthusiasm for the election appears overwhelming. In that same IRI poll, 83 percent said they intended to vote; in our survey more than three-quarters of the people we spoke to said they planned to go to the polls.

This enthusiasm represents a desire for change, the thrill of casting a meaningful ballot, and a conviction that sovereignty really will return to Iraqis once the votes have been cast.

Above all it is reflection of patriotism. Time and again we heard a simple yet profound comment, along the lines of this one, from an unemployed man in Al Muthene province: "My love of the country will push me to vote."
 

Damn True

Monkey Pimp
Sep 10, 2001
4,015
3
Between a rock and a hard place.
Funny thing though.....in just a few days we will have provided democratic elections who's winners will be determined by popular vote in two countries that have never had such a thing.

Yet our own elections are not determined by popular vote.
 

N8 v2.0

Not the sharpest tool in the shed
Oct 18, 2002
11,003
149
The Cleft of Venus
Damn True said:
Funny thing though.....in just a few days we will have provided democratic elections who's winners will be determined by popular vote in two countries that have never had such a thing.

Yet our own elections are not determined by popular vote.

And thankfully so!
 

ohio

The Fresno Kid
Nov 26, 2001
6,649
26
SF, CA
ABC News choking? I think ABC News would like see (just as much as all of us would like to see) Iraq carry out a succesful election. That's not the same thing as being averse to building up what may be a false hope.

Not everyone is stuck in the same us vs. them, conservatives have to lose for liberals to win (and vice versa) mentality that you are.
 

N8 v2.0

Not the sharpest tool in the shed
Oct 18, 2002
11,003
149
The Cleft of Venus
ohio said:
ABC News choking? I think ABC News would like see (just as much as all of us would like to see) Iraq carry out a succesful election. That's not the same thing as being averse to building up what may be a false hope.

Not everyone is stuck in the same us vs. them, conservatives have to lose for liberals to win (and vice versa) mentality that you are.
Not true... sucess in Iraq is not what liberal want... at least as long as Pres. Bush is in office. Sucess would equate to a high chance of re-electing another republican president in 2008. Remeber that good news for America is bad news for liberals as long as they are out of power.
 

qualude

Monkey
Oct 27, 2004
237
0
The County of Kings
N8 said:
Remeber that good news for America is bad news for liberals as long as they are out of power.
This is so wrong.

When did being liberal equate with being un-American??
I'm a liberal, and I love America, so quit with that liberals=anti-American propaganda sh!7 please....
It gets old.
 

-BB-

I broke all the rules, but somehow still became mo
Sep 6, 2001
4,254
28
Livin it up in the O.C.
N8 said:
Not true... sucess in Iraq is not what liberal want... at least as long as Pres. Bush is in office. Sucess would equate to a high chance of re-electing another republican president in 2008. Remeber that good news for America is bad news for liberals as long as they are out of power.
Stop talking out your Azz.
How do you nkow what libs want?

Bush got his second term, and can't get a 3rd.
In particular, I (as I have been called a lib) want to see things go well there regardless of who is pres. I want to feel safer and being at war and having most people in that area hate us does NOT make me feel safe.
 

N8 v2.0

Not the sharpest tool in the shed
Oct 18, 2002
11,003
149
The Cleft of Venus
qualude said:
This is so wrong.

When did being liberal equate with being un-American??
I'm a liberal, and I love America, so quit with that liberals=anti-American propaganda sh!7 please....
It gets old.

You obviously don't really listen to what your party leaders are saying do you?

It's nothing but doom & gloom...
 

ohio

The Fresno Kid
Nov 26, 2001
6,649
26
SF, CA
N8 said:
You obviously don't really listen to what your party leaders are saying do you?

It's nothing but doom & gloom...
"Party leaders" is a small subset that could tentatively be called representative a single liberal party (since that's their official position) but you're really stretching to call their opinions and motivations representative of liberals as a whole.
 

N8 v2.0

Not the sharpest tool in the shed
Oct 18, 2002
11,003
149
The Cleft of Venus
ohio said:
"Party leaders" is a small subset that could tentatively be called representative a single liberal party (since that's their official position) but you're really stretching to call their opinions and motivations representative of liberals as a whole.

I figure they are the ones that other libs want to represent them so I may have made an assumption but it was logical.
 

ohio

The Fresno Kid
Nov 26, 2001
6,649
26
SF, CA
N8 said:
I figure they are the ones that other libs want to represent them so I may have made an assumption but it was logical.
It would be much more fair and accurate to say their policies are representative than it would be to say their motivations are representative.
 

qualude

Monkey
Oct 27, 2004
237
0
The County of Kings
N8 said:
I figure they are the ones that other libs want to represent them so I may have made an assumption but it was logical.

I guess if we make blanket statements based on what we see people do in Washington D.C., then we truly will have a divided nation. I don't believe that any one person, or any one party in politics is a true representation of what we all want.
 

mack

Turbo Monkey
Feb 26, 2003
3,674
0
Colorado
I am a firm believer in the electoral college. Always looking out for the farmers and people who live in the sticks.
 

chicodude

The Spooninator
Mar 28, 2004
1,054
2
Paradise
mack said:
I am a firm believer in the electoral college. Always looking out for the farmers and people who live in the sticks.


Your kidding me, Right?


All of this county (mostly farmers and people who live in the "sticks") voted for bush. But it doesn't mean crap if LA and SF woted for kerry..........
 

ohio

The Fresno Kid
Nov 26, 2001
6,649
26
SF, CA
mack said:
I am a firm believer in the electoral college. Always looking out for the farmers and people who live in the sticks.
Ah, farmers... the conservatives that benefit from the most extreme socialist-liberal policies our government has to offer.

As someone who grew up in farm-country, I can say that you're right, the electoral college ABSOLUTELY empowers farmers to continue living off of welfare. Nothing like a mounting trade deficit while we sell 1/2 the world's grain at below cost, subsidized by hard-working tax-payers in cities across the country.

Yessir, good old electoral college.
 

clancy98

Monkey
Dec 6, 2004
758
0
Changleen said:
Game, set and match to Ohio.

Thanks New Zealand. how can anyone argue with that logic.

ohio read your post about not generalizing about libs. then read your post on neo conservative welfare sucking farmers.
 

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
6
ohio said:
Ah, farmers... the conservatives that benefit from the most extreme socialist-liberal policies our government has to offer.

As someone who grew up in farm-country, I can say that you're right, the electoral college ABSOLUTELY empowers farmers to continue living off of welfare. Nothing like a mounting trade deficit while we sell 1/2 the world's grain at below cost, subsidized by hard-working tax-payers in cities across the country.

Yessir, good old electoral college.
<offtopic>

while i concur w/ this, what's the alternative? ADM? ("Supermarket to the World"). i'm not trying to make the logical fallicy of false alternative, i just don't recognize a continuum with the best win/win.

</offtopic>
 

ohio

The Fresno Kid
Nov 26, 2001
6,649
26
SF, CA
clancy98 said:
ohio read your post about not generalizing about libs. then read your post on neo conservative welfare sucking farmers.
I never said the farmers were neo-cons. I said they were conservative (less of a generalization and one supported by all major news outlets and both olitical parties). I'll come back to that.

I'm saying that the farming industry is being subsidized. I suppose you could call that a generalization in that horse farms and christmas tree farms aren't being subsidized, but if you look what proportion of our farm production volume IS subsidized, you will see that is is the rule, not the exception.

Now, that leads to the majority of farmers voting conservative. They may or may not actually BE conservative, but they vote that way because free money is good for them, and they know which party keeps giving it to them (not that the Dems would have the spine to cut off farm subsidies either), and the electoral college is the tool that makes their vote count.
 

ohio

The Fresno Kid
Nov 26, 2001
6,649
26
SF, CA
$tinkle said:
<offtopic>

while i concur w/ this, what's the alternative? ADM? ("Supermarket to the World"). i'm not trying to make the logical fallicy of false alternative, i just don't recognize a continuum with the best win/win.

</offtopic>
Slowly reduce the subsidies to zero. At first, US farmers will take a hit because they can't compete with foreign pricing, BUT we produce so much more than anyone else that if our production fell off from farms going out of business, it would produce a shortage which would raise worldwide prices. This would be good for both Americans, who would no longer have to subsidize their farms, as well as foreign producers who could demand a higher price for their goods, speeding development in areas where ag is the only business.

To prevent that shortage from becoming a famine, we just need to keep the process gradual.
 

clancy98

Monkey
Dec 6, 2004
758
0
so farmers aren't conservative, they just always vote conservative.

yeah you're right, that wasn't a blatant partisan generalization at all.

Thanks alot for clearing that up buddy.
 

Silver

find me a tampon
Jul 20, 2002
10,840
1
Orange County, CA
clancy98 said:
so farmers aren't conservative, they just always vote conservative.

yeah you're right, that wasn't a blatant partisan generalization at all.

Thanks alot for clearing that up buddy.
And large cities almost always vote more "liberal" than rural areas. Pointing out reality is hardly a blatant partisan generalization.
 

jdcamb

Tool Time!
Feb 17, 2002
20,067
8,816
Nowhere Man!
N8 said:
Not true... sucess in Iraq is not what liberal want... at least as long as Pres. Bush is in office. Sucess would equate to a high chance of re-electing another republican president in 2008. Remeber that good news for America is bad news for liberals as long as they are out of power.

Yepper you are so in touch with what the "libs" want. :rolleyes:

Maybe you should just stick with the cut paste news posts......
 

ohio

The Fresno Kid
Nov 26, 2001
6,649
26
SF, CA
clancy98 said:
so farmers aren't conservative, they just always vote conservative.

yeah you're right, that wasn't a blatant partisan generalization at all.

Thanks alot for clearing that up buddy.
I'm not sure which part you disagree with. I was un-generalizing the generalization. Yes, farmers IN GENERAL vote conservatively. Do you disagree? My claim is that those who do, have subsidies as their primary motivation. This is based on my first hand experience.

Again, WTF is your problem with this? Is it that I used the word "conservative?" Other than that, there is no logical connection between my statement and my criticism of N8's distorted worldview.

As for the nuts-kicking emoticon, you really just don't understand, do you? I don't see the the world as a zero sum political gain. This is easily demonstrated by the fact that I espouse highly conservative fiscal policies that are at odds with the standard liberal party line.

That's all there is to it. It's not that you cannot make statements about liberals and conservatives, it's that they should be informed. Is that a difficult concept for you to grasp?