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Abortion: Fetuses feel no pain until 3rd Trimester

Discussion in 'Politics & World News' started by Changleen, Aug 24, 2005.

  1. Changleen

    Changleen Paranoid Member

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    Oh, Intersting.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/23/h...&en=34b02a0950c494c5&ei=5094&partner=homepage

    (Cut - See link for full article)

    So how is an unconscious, un-feeling lump of cells any different to a potato, or any other vegetable for that matter? Why do anti-abortionists feel it needs special protection? If it's so wrong to kill an unconscious, un-feeling lump of cells, then what are you going to eat? What about killing animals to eat?
     

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  2. narlus

    narlus Eastcoast Softcore
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    how about eating aborted foetus?

    Jim Thirwell knows a bit about this.
     
  3. Changleen

    Changleen Paranoid Member

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    Half formed bones might be a bit crunchy? Maybe a stew?
     
  4. spam16v

    spam16v Monkey

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    you sick fawk. omg LOL
     
  5. lovebunny

    lovebunny can i lick your balls?

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    naw i think fetus wings would be quite tasty. maybe a casserole. mmmmmmmmm :thumb:
     
  6. -dustin

    -dustin boring

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    maybe that's where buffalo wings come from?!
     
  7. Changleen

    Changleen Paranoid Member

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    Studies have shown that Cannibals live for a long time.
     
  8. Ciaran

    Ciaran Fear my banana

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    Long cooking times tenderize stringy tough meat. (teenagers)

    Fetuses and babies are just veal that tastes like chicken.
     
  9. enkidu

    enkidu Guest

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    and, well, for old folks over 50 or so. . . we'll just throw them to the wild dogs.
     
  10. stinkyboy

    stinkyboy Plastic Santa

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  11. ALEXIS_DH

    ALEXIS_DH Tirelessly Awesome

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    how are you any different awake and alert than when you are sleeping, when you are doped, unconsious, or passed out drunk???
    wouldnt you logic make you fair game in those instances then???
     
  12. DRB

    DRB unemployed bum

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  13. ChrisRobin

    ChrisRobin Turbo Monkey

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  14. Changleen

    Changleen Paranoid Member

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    The difference is that a Foetus has never been conscious, or ever felt anything. As a foetus it doesn't posess the ability to do so. Once it reaches a certain stage in it's development it is developed enough to feel pain, and even later to develop consciousness.
     
  15. ALEXIS_DH

    ALEXIS_DH Tirelessly Awesome

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    whether it has felt before or not is irrelevant.
    whether it will feel something or not IS relevant.

    i think there is a present value associated with the "chance" of future outcomes. any economist would accept accept that is logical.

    under that reasoning, any chunk of mankindness of any size with a reasonable chance of survival (by survival i mean attaining consciousness, or whatever you accept as life), with reasonable external assistance is worth something other than zero.

    what is reasonable?? imo, anything that doesnt have to be explicitely and purposely interrupted for the process to fail.

    thus a chunk of new dna with zero chance of survival (like a fertilized egg outside the womb) is fair game.

    a chunk of dna 3 months in a womb, has a little more than zero chance of survival. thus, just like with person in coma with 50%-50% (or whatever arbitrary number) chance of survival, there is a non-zero value associated to that life... people dont pull the plug on people in coma with a guesstimated 20% of survival, why should you plug the play on another unconscious human with a similar chance of survival???

    how much chance of success there has to be to justify non-intrusion??? i dunno, but i rather be conservative in that wager
     
  16. Changleen

    Changleen Paranoid Member

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    I disagree, but I understand where you're coming from.

    This is a good point, however, we must remember that we are also dealing with a Mother and her life, and the Mother IS conscious, IS feeling, has relationships, has a life, whilst the foetus has no and does not. If the outcome of having the baby is probably not good for the Mother or the baby, I have no problem with the abortion. Say, the mother is a crack addict, say the mother is a poor single mother who will not be able to support the baby properly, say the mother is too young to support the child properly, say the mother is raped. In all these situations a mother might decide that the needs of her life and the needs of a child she may have are not best served by having the baby at that time. I really don't see how you can deny her this choice. By denying her this choice, in most cases you will be bringing children into the world in a less than advantageous situation. For sure, you cannot ensure that every child has a perfect chance in life, but that's not your call to make. It's hers. Some situations are worse than others, and abortion is a valid and respectable choice in these cases.
     
  17. Changleen

    Changleen Paranoid Member

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    Sorry, Just re-read that and it's a ****ing mess.

    What I'm trying to say is that although, as you pointed out, the life of the unfeeling, unconscious foetus is not worth nothing, it is worth a hell of a lot less than the actual life of the mother, and I think it's always got to be her life and circumstances which get considered before that of the lump of not yet conscious cells in her womb, especially if these circumstances may have a negative effect on the life of the potential child.
     
  18. Reactor

    Reactor Turbo Monkey

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    Funny, George authorized 150 "retroactive" abortions as govinator of Tejas. He helped "retroactively" aborted tens of thousands of Iraqi's and about 2000 US troops.

    "I am all about saving the life of Innocent feticuli, but damn! once they are born, their ass in mine!"

    G.W. Bush.
     
  19. manimal

    manimal Ociffer Tackleberry

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    i'm waiting for the sky to fall.

    I ACTUALLY AGREE WITH ALEXIS DH!!! (and you said it better than i could have :thumb: )

    this is a momentous occassion, kind of like when you get the kids in bed before the wife is too tired for some nookie :D :thumb:
     
  20. manimal

    manimal Ociffer Tackleberry

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    How is that the baby's fault? Whatever happened to Human responsibility.

    again.....How is that the baby's fault?

    what a great message we're sending our kids:

    action--------------------------Consequence
    drink/drive---------------- legal fees/loss of license/repay damages

    steal ---------------------arrested/pay back debt/legal actions

    drugs ------------------- law involved/court fees/rehab/legal actions

    get pregnant while young----no consequence /abort baby/do-over

    a very tough question, and i have no proper answer. the easy way out is to just say "suck it up and have the baby".......but that's not realistic or human. i can't imagine what would be going through the mind of a woman who has a life growing inside her, given to her by the man that raped her.
    does taking a life justify the crime? hard question.

    since when does parenthood require an advanageous situation? if everyone waited until it was advantageous to have children, none of us would be here. kids happen, it's called life. the problem is that we've gotten away from the basic responsibility of accepting the consequences of our actions. heck, none of my kids were planned and 'lil manimal was quite the surprise as he was present at our wedding (fetus) :D
    it was a hassle dealing with a kid when we were only 20.....but we took the risk for some pleasure and had to pay the price.
     
  21. Changleen

    Changleen Paranoid Member

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    I agree with your point about lack of responsibility being a big problem with society, but I do not accept you are hurting anyone by having an abortion before the third trimester. Your points are only valid if the 'baby' (It's not a baby yet) has something of value you can remove. Since it is neither conscious, cognative or feeling, and never has been, how are you 'punishing' a lump of cells by choosing not to allow them to develop?

    I agree people need to take more responsibility, but sometimes that means being responsible enough to realise now is not the best time to have a baby.

    Hey, while you're here, I was arguing today with a friend. She said you (US cops) can't arrest people whilst off duty. I said you can. I'm pretty damn sure I'm right. Am I?
     
  22. manimal

    manimal Ociffer Tackleberry

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    yes, i can arrest off duty, as long as i'm IN MY JURISDICTION.