[Jr_Bullit]

I bumped into this article on the NYTimes this evening...I know there are a few hardcore Bush supporters on here and I am curious about your opinion on this one....Bush really wants Abstinence Education in schools to take off, and more money then ever is going to support this. However, the study that the NYTimes is discussing demonstrates the number of risky inaccuracies in the current form of this education.

Personally - I think abstinence should be a part of a comprehensive sex-ed program, but not the end-all option. Teenagers and college kids' hormones drive their actions, and without the right knowledge about how to protect themselves, they could end up in not so great situations.

Study Faults Abstinence Courses
By BRIAN WINGFIELD

Published: December 3, 2004

WASHINGTON, Dec. 2 - Some federally financed sex education programs that teach an abstinence-only approach have factual errors and are ineffective, a Congressional report says.

The report, by the Democratic staff of the House Government Reform Committee for Representative Henry A. Waxman, Democrat of California, says the programs provide "false, misleading or distorted information" about contraception, abortion, sexually transmitted diseases and sexual stereotypes.

The report says some of programs erroneously teach, among other points, that condoms fail to prevent H.I.V. in heterosexual sex 31 percent of the time and that touching another person's genitals may result in pregnancy.

The study, first reported on Wednesday by ABC News, says some of the programs stereotype men and women without any scientific basis. One course says women need "financial support" and men crave "admiration." Another course says a human being has 24 chromosomes from the father and 24 from the mother. The number is 23.

Dr. Alma L. Golden, a deputy assistant secretary in the Health and Human Services Department, said in a statement that Mr. Waxman's report "misses the boat" and that it took information out of context "for purely political reasons."

The investigators reviewed 13 programs in schools, hospitals, religious groups and health departments in 25 states. Eleven courses, the study said, had "major errors and distortions of public health information." The teaching materials "are not reviewed for accuracy by the federal government," the report adds.

The errors, it says, "may help explain why these programs have not been shown to protect adolescents from sexually transmitted diseases and why youth who pledge abstinence are significantly less likely to make informed choices about precautions when they do have sex."

The Bush administration has been a strong advocate of abstinence-only education. According to the report, the federal government plans to spend $170 million on such programs next year, more than twice as much as in 2001.

Linda Klepacki of Focus on the Family, an evangelical group that supports abstinence programs, said Mr. Waxman was "trying to eliminate funding for abstinence-only education within the public school system."

 

[TheInedibleHulk]

Focus on the Family is James Dobson's circus, they love to ignore the reality of situations in favor of obsolete ideologies.

 

[valve bouncer]

Abstinence? Give me a break, that's gonna work about as good as "Just say no to drugs". Who thinks up this crap? Oh, that's right, frothers.....idiots.

 

[binary visions]

I believe there have been a few threads on here about absitinence education, one of which was an interesting article that several major sex-ed book suppliers in Texas have gone to an abstinence-only sex-ed book, with a birth control "optional insert" that can be purchased separately.

This towers above the "say no to drugs" on a stupidity level. Drugs aren't a natural part of the growing process.

I've yet to hear a good argument on this besides the tired, "if we effectively teach abstinence, kids won't have sex" load of bullsh!t that is completely wrong wrong wrong.

I agree, abstinence should be taught as an option - and perhaps even encouraged as a good option. I don't think many people who have sex in high school are (mentally) old enough to handle it or the consequences. I know I wasn't. My current girlfriend readily admits that she put herself in a bad relationship for four years because she slept with him in high school.

Look at all the pregnant teenagers in your average high school. My high school was a veritable orgy of incestuous relationships between cliques - everyone was sleeping with everyone else and you find out stuff like, "this guy cheated on his girlfriend with this girl who had gotten herpes from this guy 'cause he slept with the whole cheerleading squad, so consequently this guy's girlfriend ended up with herpes and..."

People are gonna f**k. Period. End of story. It doesn't matter how well they are educated or what is contained in that education. To say otherwise is propagating ludicrous and very harmful bull - if people aren't educated properly, they will NOT be taking the proper precautions when they DO have sex.

 

[DRB]

The teaching of abstinence as the best and most effective form of birth control and STD prevention is a no brainer. There is simply no arguement to this. It isn't a matter of whether they are going to follow thru or not. It is the best way to avoid the problems. Not doing it is idiotic.

However, their needs to be the "BUT if you are going to take the chance here are the ways to minimize the risk." They need to be accurate and truthful. And they also need to include the "car crash" footage of when things go wrong. The STD pictures, AIDS patients, pregency, the emotional baggage, the whole nine yards.

The two aren't mutually exclusive.

 

[Skookum]

However, their needs to be the "BUT if you are going to take the chance here are the ways to minimize the risk." They need to be accurate and truthful. And they also need to include the "car crash" footage of when things go wrong. The STD pictures, AIDS patients, pregency, the emotional baggage, the whole nine yards.

The two aren't mutually exclusive.

Haha kids are just gonna laugh at this stuff.... People who have kids all of a sudden forget what it's like to be a kid. They're not mindless robots that take in programming and commands like N8.
Abstinence only or shock education is dumb, just bring out the facts and leave the training of responsibilities to the parents.

 

[narlus]

what's wrong w/ absinthe education? it was highly influential on beaudelaire and van gogh.

 

[DRB]

Haha kids are just gonna laugh at this stuff.... People who have kids all of a sudden forget what it's like to be a kid. They're not mindless robots that take in programming and commands like N8.
Abstinence only or shock education is dumb, just bring out the facts and leave the training of responsibilities to the parents.

Never said "only" for anything. The facts that you are talking about surely would have to include the ramifications of things not working and abstinence as the one sure way to avoid pregnancy and STDs. Regardless of whether they laugh at it or not.

Again none of this is mutually exclusive.

And which parents are you talking about? Britney, the internet or the TV?

 

[Jr_Bullit]

The resident advisors in my college were each required to "learn" an expertise that would benefit the kids on campus. One guy chose the date rape drug, I partnered with another RA and we chose rape and sexual awareness, and took several weeks' worth of classes on STD's, prevention, rape counselling and so on.

The last day of the class, two students from the local Catholic university showed up. You see, sex ed was banned on campus, as was the distribution of condoms or any materials informing students about their options for protection. They came to our team, as the nearest campus to theirs, and asked us to come on their campus and distribute informational packets and condoms. We did it on Easter Sunday, carrying huge Easter baskets full of goodies to give out all over campus. Because we weren't students there, there was little the campus could besides ask us to stand outside the gates .

Basically, what my point was, the university students were completely uneducated about the ways of the world yet very very sexually active. Many were being diagnosed with STDs, women were returning to their parents knocked up, and all because they simply didn't know what protection was and how to use it.

Abstinence should definitely be taught as the best option, but not the only option and kids need to be aware of what the real consequences are for their actions.

 

[valve bouncer]

what's wrong w/ absinthe education? it was highly influential on beaudelaire and van gogh.

Hehehehehe, this'll get lost on the soap boxers but it's what I always think when I hear the word "abstinence".
The idea that abstinence is the best way to prevent all these problems is about as ridiculous as saying that you should never be born is the best way to prevent cancer, i.e completely and utterly nonsensical. This is not to say it shouldn't be presented as an option but that kids should have absolutely all the ideas on the table when and if (mostly when) they get to that point .At that point they should be presented with all the ideas without prejudice. The main and only idea imho should be the prevention of harm.

 

[Kornphlake]

abstinance is a great option, but it can't be taught through the education system. Because we are to a large extent driven by sexual desires (even more so between the ages of 15-25) there has to be some personal conviction that will prevent someone from having premarital sex. That personal conviction simply does not grow out of the public education system, or even private education, it's something taught by parents to children, and apparently it's something that parent's have dropped the ball on for centruies. I've, for some reason, been involved in candid discussions with people 2 generations older than me and they'll admit that they and their friends were just as sexually active as today's youth. As great a person as GW may be, he can't single handedly stop kids from sleeping around, I'd be suprised if he could keep his own children from sleeping around let alone every child in the united states.

 

[dan-o]

The reason these tactics don't work is because instinct usually overpowers reason, especially reasoning that you are told is correct yet don't personally believe (ie. as a teenager you are not invincible).

We can continue to try and shock or guilt kids into abstaining from sex as part of the education process but circumstances where information about safe-sex is skewed or altogether eliminated to push an agenda are delusional at best.

 

[.:Jeenyus:.]

I am in 9th grade at the moment and the sex-ed. section just finished. The teacher made it VERY clear that abstinence is the only 100% garenteed way to not catch an STD or become/get someone pregnant. Yet she did not really dwell on that after stressing it a bit, and did go very in depth about birth control/STD prevention and broke out the slides It was more of a "I know your going to do it so i'll help you be as safe as possible" type course then "Don't do it. The end" course.

IF they teach it like that everywhere then I don't see what the problem is...

 

[Toshi]

IF they teach it like that everywhere then I don't see what the problem is...

i'm glad that you have a reasonable school, but this thread is about "federally financed sex education programs that teach an abstinence-only approach" that "have factual errors and are ineffective"

 

[BuddhaRoadkill]

"Abstinence only" worked for Mary ......... oh wait ..... :nuts:















*[sorry, too pissed off at theocracy to post rationally :angry: ]

 

[Skookum]

Never said "only" for anything. The facts that you are talking about surely would have to include the ramifications of things not working and abstinence as the one sure way to avoid pregnancy and STDs. Regardless of whether they laugh at it or not.

Again none of this is mutually exclusive.

And which parents are you talking about? Britney, the internet or the TV?

correct, with my comments i'm not trying to argue not to include abstinence in education, whether inferred or emphasized by a teacher. But i just think it's plain stupid to limit the lesson to just that. Kids have been gettin busy since the 50's in the back of Chevy's parked under the moonlit sky listening to doo-wap.....
And i send my kids to the factories and sweatshops by the age of 7. But t.v. is a great medium to keep the obnoxious little bastards off my back until then.

 

[BurlyShirley]

I'm a supporter of the "Just Anal Til Marriage" type sex ed.

 

[Skookum]

I'm a supporter of the "Just Anal Til Marriage" type sex ed.

haha gonna call you poopstick from now on....

 

[manimal]

abstinence is a great tool for the younger teen crowd. however, even with my conservative belief system, i am not naive enough to believe that kids are going to be thinking about their lesson in abstinence when they've got a hot guy/girl sucking on their ear lobe (gets me everytime ). i believe it SHOULD be included as the only 100% way of preventing pregnancy/STD's but that other sex ed should be included. kind of like telling kids to drive safe and don't speed......but still put the air bags in the car.
heck, my wife and i were planning on the wait 'till marriage thing......but my son in her belly under that wedding dress proved otherwise

i believe that the best form of birth control lies with the parents. a daughter that is loved by her parents and knows her true self worth will be much less likely to just give it up for some dweeb. unfortunately, that is becoming less prevalent in todays society.
oh yeah, and being a cop with lots of guns displayed when the boyfriend comes over to pick her up helps a lot too

 

[DRB]

haha gonna call you poopstick from now on....

He'll do anything to get rid of the assistant ball fondler title.

 

[binary visions]

He'll do anything to get rid of the assistant ball fondler title.

I dunno, I think "poopstick" is worse.

 

[MikeD]

Because we are to a large extent driven by sexual desires (even more so between the ages of 15-25) there has to be some personal conviction that will prevent someone from having premarital sex.

But marriage itself doesn't make people any more personally responsible or emotionally ready for sex. It may be more 'moral' to have sex inside marriage according to some traditions, but it's not like anyone suddenly gets more mature or intelligent when they say "I do."

Coming from the military, I've seen way too many young people getting married too quickly in order to 1) prove to others/reinforce to themselves their "adulthood" prior to turning 20 2) Try and cement/trap what they see as their "only true love," way before they know what that even means 3) Fulfill what they see as an obligation after getting a girl pregnant.

#3 is probably the option most likely to lead to disaster for all concerned, and that includes society at large. Perhaps if they were better-educated, birth control more readily available and un-stigmatized in society, we wouldn't have had these problems at all, and procreation could have taken place following a conscious decision by 2 adults prepared to handle a child.

I'd much rather have a child who learned frankly about sex and made an informed decision about it (which most likely means having it, hopefully with the proper protection) than a child who got married way too early.

I realize that you're saying there can be personal convictions that override the natural drive to sex, but I have to laugh at my experience with most 'virginal' people, mostly women, who use their 'virginity' to increase their sexual allure, and commit most every sex act besides intercourse...while thinking they're somehow 'pure.' A couple performing mutual oral sex is, in a moral dimension (IMHO), doing pretty much the same thing as intercourse.

Certainly, there are people who aren't like this...just relating what I see. In most cases, hormones win out over convictions, and I think we should be prepared for that as a society. Exceptions to the rule are already taken care of...and still, just because they're exceptions doesn't mean they can't/shouldn't be educated to the facts.

MD

 

[shocktower]

What about Jenn and Laure those sluts ,Oh they just give oral neaky: neaky: neaky: neaky: