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Abstinence programs for teens...not a barrier to pre-marital sex or stds

Jr_Bullit

I'm sooo teenie weenie!!!
Sep 8, 2001
2,028
1
North of Oz
http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1166168,00.html

US study of teenage sexual disease destroys basis of virginity crusade

Suzanne Goldenberg in Washington
Wednesday March 10, 2004
The Guardian

American teenagers who take the pledge to remain virgins until they marry have almost the same rate of sexually transmitted disease as other young people, a new study of adolescent behaviour says.
The finding destroys a key rationale for the abstinence crusade - that it prevents disease - and poses a strong challenge to a social engineering project that has been embraced by the White House.

The eight-year study of 12,000 young people by two American sociologists found that the graduates of abstinence programmes were nearly as likely as other young people to catch sexually transmitted infections such as gonorrhoea or chlamydia.

Other findings, yet to be published, also suggest that abstinence programmes do not prevent early pregnancy, Hannah Bruckner, a sociologist at Yale University and co-author of the study, said.

That challenges the very underpinnings of a movement that has attracted 2.5 million American teenagers in recent years, and which is endorsed by church organisations and the Christian right.

Few of those teenagers continue to save themselves for marriage - 88% have sex before they reach the altar. However, the study found they start having sex later and have fewer partners than other teenagers.

Even so, Dr Bruckner said she was initially surprised to discover that there was virtually no statistical difference in their susceptibility to infection. That was because such teenagers are less likely to use condoms, and are less aware of sexually transmitted infections, largely because they have been indoctrinated to believe they are not going to have sex.

Under US law, abstinence programmes risk losing federal funding if they stray into the realm of sex education. Church-based abstinence programmes are openly hostile to condoms and preach that they do not guard against disease.

"Teens who pledge are less likely to get tested for STDs, are less likely to see a doctor if they are worried about STDs, and also less likely to know that they have an STD," said Dr Bruckner.

Those teenagers, because they were less likely to seek treatment, could also more readily spread sexually transmitted infections to other people, she added.

The study found that STD rates for whites who pledged to stay virgins was 2.8% compared with 3.5% among other teenagers. Among African-Americans, the rates were 18.1% and 20.3%. Among Hispanics, they were 6.7% and 8.6%.
 

fluff

Monkey Turbo
Sep 8, 2001
5,673
2
Feeling the lag
Originally posted by Jr_Bullit
[BThe study found that STD rates for whites who pledged to stay virgins was 2.8% compared with 3.5% among other teenagers. Among African-Americans, the rates were 18.1% and 20.3%. Among Hispanics, they were 6.7% and 8.6%. [/B]
2.8% to 3.5% is a difference of 20% lower for the former group. That's hardly insignificant.

It's around 10% for the African-Americans and Hispanics.

Statistics eh?
 

LordOpie

MOTHER HEN
Oct 17, 2002
21,022
3
Denver
so the moral of the story is...

don't have sex with a graduate of the abstinence program, especially if they're black?
 

fluff

Monkey Turbo
Sep 8, 2001
5,673
2
Feeling the lag
Originally posted by LordOpie
so the moral of the story is...

don't have sex with a graduate of the abstinence program, especially if they're black?
I think the moral they want you to see is; don't have sex. With anyone. Ever. It's so terribly dangerous.
 

Jr_Bullit

I'm sooo teenie weenie!!!
Sep 8, 2001
2,028
1
North of Oz
nonono...the moral of the story is...education about sex is better than simply denying sex and denying all accoutrements of sex (condoms, birth control etc). :)
 

Tenchiro

Attention K Mart Shoppers
Jul 19, 2002
5,407
0
New England
Originally posted by Jr_Bullit
nonono...the moral of the story is...education about sex is better than simply denying sex and denying all accoutrements of sex (condoms, birth control etc). :)
I thought it was that kids are dumb? :confused:
 

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
6
ok, this is another program that i support in theory, but not in practice. It takes extreme measures to override judgment (or lack thereof). Hows about we re-institute the tuskegee experiments, or make kids take a day every semester down at the walt whitman clinic? Seriously, it's more responsible to approach the subject in a real-world setting than what's currently being done. And no, i don't have the abstinence curriculum handy, but i'm sure what i recommended would be loathed to employ.
 

fluff

Monkey Turbo
Sep 8, 2001
5,673
2
Feeling the lag
Originally posted by $tinkle
It takes extreme measures to override judgment (or lack thereof). Hows about we re-institute the tuskegee experiments, or make kids take a day every semester down at the walt whitman clinic? Seriously, it's more responsible to approach the subject in a real-world setting than what's currently being done. And no, i don't have the abstinence curriculum handy, but i'm sure what i recommended would be loathed to employ.
This is perhaps a bit of an unfair question so feel free not to answer.

As you support abstinence, and possibly refraining from pre-marital sex, did you practise abstinence yourself?
 

BurlyShirley

Rex Grossman Will Rise Again
Jul 4, 2002
19,180
17
TN
Well, it's kind of expected right? I mean, that's the whole point of an abstinence group...once you f***, you're going to get a disease. Now, of the kids who choose abstinence, and never stray from the path...Im guessing the STD rate is still around 0.0%
WTF is the point of this:confused:

One thing I do know, lots of girls in those groups are just a BurlySurly away from a night of passion. Im going to start hitting up those Billy Graham crusades in search for new young hot tail:)
 

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
6
Originally posted by fluff
This is perhaps a bit of an unfair question so feel free not to answer.

As you support abstinence, and possibly refraining from pre-marital sex, did you practise abstinence yourself?
i support abstinence now, but didn't in my heydey, as it wasn't even a consideration. However, i never indulged, as i was beyond awkward. It just worked out that way.

lucky me, eh?
 

fluff

Monkey Turbo
Sep 8, 2001
5,673
2
Feeling the lag
This additional stat was on the BBC website:

Asians: pledgers 10.5% - non-pledgers 5.6%

So the Asians who pledged abstinence have a higher STD rate!

(Unless someone at the Beeb can't tpye...)
 

fluff

Monkey Turbo
Sep 8, 2001
5,673
2
Feeling the lag
Originally posted by $tinkle
i support abstinence now, but didn't in my heydey, as it wasn't even a consideration. However, i never indulged, as i was beyond awkward. It just worked out that way.

lucky me, eh?
Doesn't it seem a bit unfair to preach something that one never practiced?

Are you married now?
 

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
6
Originally posted by fluff
Doesn't it seem a bit unfair to preach something that one never practiced?
let's see if this translates to:
- substance abuse
- drinking & driving
- irresponsible credit card use

i have all three in my past, and "preach" against all of them, for i have shouldered their burdens

Originally posted by fluff
Are you married now?
yes, and quite happily.


i have a good friend who is getting his MPH (masters in public health), and he won't touch this topic. Way too political, & any current viable solution is incompatible with the decision makers.
 

Toshi

butthole powerwashing evangelist
Oct 23, 2001
40,210
9,104
Originally posted by Jr_Bullit
The study found that STD rates for whites who pledged to stay virgins was 2.8% compared with 3.5% among other teenagers. Among African-Americans, the rates were 18.1% and 20.3%. Among Hispanics, they were 6.7% and 8.6%.
good lawd, that's quite the gap based on race.
 

fluff

Monkey Turbo
Sep 8, 2001
5,673
2
Feeling the lag
Originally posted by $tinkle
let's see if this translates to:
- substance abuse
- drinking & driving
- irresponsible credit card use

i have all three in my past, and "preach" against all of them, for i have shouldered their burdens
Well, substance abuse and drink driving are in a somewhat different league to sex between consenting adults (albeit teenage ones), one causes direct physical damage, the other dramatically increase the likelihood of serious physical damage or death to others.

Credit cards... preach that to all of us!

I would rather see education on dangers of STD and how they are transmitted. Safe sex rather than no sex.
 

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
6
Originally posted by fluff
Safe sex rather than no sex.
huh? aren't these the same? meaning, no sex is 100% safe after adam & eve.

You do know that chlamydia can be generated, not just transmitted, yes? Along with UTI's & other tract maladies.

Not sure how you could have a prayer to protect against herpes, genital warts, or other ailments with undefined topical boundaries.

LO, isn't there something about you people with a hole in the sheet that makes it all good?
 

Jr_Bullit

I'm sooo teenie weenie!!!
Sep 8, 2001
2,028
1
North of Oz
Originally posted by fluff
I would rather see education on dangers of STD and how they are transmitted. Safe sex rather than no sex.
Preach on! :)

I sure I've told this story before...but I'ma gonna tell it again...

In college I was a rape and STD counselor, and one of the few who was also still a virgin (good thing that part was between me and my notebook, I don't know how many college kids would take sexual advice from someone who hadn't had the fun of it yet).

Anyways, I got invited to the local catholic university, because you see the Resident Advisors there weren't allowed to distribute condoms or even teach about the benefits of safe sex, and the dangers of not practicing safe sex. Whereas at my university, us RAs were given a key to the on campus counseling center where we had full access to as many toys, condoms, pamphlets, lubes you name it it was there, to pass out to our residents. For the week before and after Easter I and my cohorts of the counseling and RA centers loaded up easter baskets, little plastic easter eggs and walked the campus of Holy Cross and worked with kids on safe sex. Because we weren't attending the university they had no authority to tell us to quit, though we did get escorted off campus a couple times.

Most of the kids had always been told condoms were bad etc, but I only met one or two on my journeys that actually still practiced abstinence.
 

Jr_Bullit

I'm sooo teenie weenie!!!
Sep 8, 2001
2,028
1
North of Oz
Originally posted by $tinkle
huh? aren't these the same? meaning, no sex is 100% safe after adam & eve.

You do know that chlamydia can be generated, not just transmitted, yes? Along with UTI's & other tract maladies.

Not sure how you could have a prayer to protect against herpes, genital warts, or other ailments with undefined topical boundaries.

LO, isn't there something about you people with a hole in the sheet that makes it all good?
Yes, no sex is the best option, but few teenagers have the will power to actually hold out. It would be better to at least educate them about sex and work the no-sex angle, then to work the no-sex angle and teach them nothing about sex...you see the dilemna?

Just cuz kids say they're going to practice abstinence until marriage doesn't mean they will...and those that break their vows need to at least be equipped with some knowledge to protect themselves as best they can.
 

Tenchiro

Attention K Mart Shoppers
Jul 19, 2002
5,407
0
New England
I remember our sex ed courses explained not only the possible reprocussions of sex, and how to practice safe sex. But also that absitnence was the only way to be 100% safe. These two philisophies are not mutually exclusive.

Personally I feel that giving someone all of their options then letting them decide, is always better than the religious fear mongering that seems to be so popular these days by so many groups.
 

fluff

Monkey Turbo
Sep 8, 2001
5,673
2
Feeling the lag
Originally posted by $tinkle
huh? aren't these the same? meaning, no sex is 100% safe after adam & eve.

You do know that chlamydia can be generated, not just transmitted, yes? Along with UTI's & other tract maladies.

Not sure how you could have a prayer to protect against herpes, genital warts, or other ailments with undefined topical boundaries.
So for stuff that can be generated we should all give up sex regardless of sexual habits? It looks like marriage can't save you after all.

Basically you gotta educate people. I've turned down sex with an extremely attractive girl (from the US oddly enough) because she was courteous enough to let me know that she had herpes and I was not sure I could protect myself against it. Had I not had some education I would have taken a condom and a chance.

If I lacked education I would still have sex, I'd just be ignorant of the risks. Preaching abstinence won't help, that was preached to me for years, first chance I got (actually I let several earlier ones slip through naivety/obtuseness) I got down to it, but with a condom and someone whose sexual history I had good knowledge of.

I've taken a few risks in the past, but then I've taken bigger ones on motorcycles and thankfully I have been extremely lucky all round.
 

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
6
Originally posted by fluff
So for stuff that can be generated we should all give up sex regardless of sexual habits? It looks like marriage can't save you after all.
seeing how there is far less sex in marriage, this is pathological.

Originally posted by fluff
Basically you gotta educate people. I've turned down sex with an extremely attractive girl (from the US oddly enough) because she was courteous enough to let me know that she had herpes and I was not sure I could protect myself against it. Had I not had some education I would have taken a condom and a chance.
was she a polish girl named anya zshumdskaya? just curious.

Originally posted by fluff
I've taken a few risks in the past, but then I've taken bigger ones on motorcycles and thankfully I have been extremely lucky all round.
perhaps someone of greater ambition should hold a clinic where each sex act is correlated to a particular stunt, and students would learn how to don a 661 pressure suit & full-face helmut only seconds before hucking a 2 meter to flat, vice condom on cuke.
 

fluff

Monkey Turbo
Sep 8, 2001
5,673
2
Feeling the lag
Originally posted by $tinkle
seeing how there is far less sex in marriage, this is pathological.
Yeah, guess you're right there. Get married and practise abstinence.

Originally posted by $tinkle

was she a polish girl named anya zshumdskaya? just curious.
Nope, she was a WASP with a bit of a bunny-boiler streak. After I turned her down on the second occasion I spent a night lying awake wondering if she'd stab me in the chest. Damn attractive but mad as a box of frogs.
 

laura

DH_Laura
Jul 16, 2002
6,259
15
Glitter Gulch
Originally posted by fluff
If I lacked education I would still have sex, I'd just be ignorant of the risks. Preaching abstinence won't help, that was preached to me for years, first chance I got (actually I let several earlier ones slip through naivety/obtuseness) I got down to it, but with a condom and someone whose sexual history I had good knowledge of.


exactly. we really just need to be realistic about the situation. teenagers have sex. lots of teenagers have sex. lots of teenagers have unprotected sex. i was fortunate enough to have a mom who put me on birth control when i was 16. we said that we did it for pms reasons, cramps and irregularrity. but we both know that she didnt want to be a grandma at 40 and i sure as hell didnt want or need any children.

teaching abstinence doesnt work. its not going to start working anytime soon. might as well start making safe sex easier and more acceptable of an option.
 

fluff

Monkey Turbo
Sep 8, 2001
5,673
2
Feeling the lag
Originally posted by BurlySurly

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by laura
teenagers have sex. lots of teenagers have sex. lots of teenagers have unprotected sex.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



YES!

I bet you can't wait, eh?
 

BigMike

BrokenbikeMike
Jul 29, 2003
8,931
0
Montgomery county MD
my big qualm with abstinance is... how do you define it? A lot of people claim to be abstinant, but still participate in oral and anal sex. This means they are just as susceptible to stds as people that have vaginal intercourse. but, if its not vaginal, its still abstinance, right?



That is the big problem. Girls will perform fellatio and guys will perform cunnalingus, but think that its ok, because they are not having "intercourse." Belive me, I hear people talking about it all the time. Newsflash kids, you can still get STDs from that type of behavior