[Tenchiro]

Originally posted by Andyman_1970
"Deserved" to get bashed? What's up with that?

So it's "ok" for you to have a double standard, but you can "bash" Christians for the same thing? Where is that verse about the log in your eye and the speck of sawdust in your brothers............hhhhhhhhhhmmmmmm, I know it's around here somewhere.............................

People bash Christians for the same reason they bash Scientologists, or any other religion. For their goofy ass beliefs.

:devil:

 

[Andyman_1970]

Originally posted by Tenchiro
People bash Christians for the same reason they bash Scientologists, or any other religion. For their goofy ass beliefs.

:devil:

Again, you guys have failed to answer the question: WHY is it "ok" for youin's (that's and Arkansas word) to run down Christians (your beliefs), but you guys get your feathers all in a wad when a Christian voices their beliefs?

Is it because you are "immune" to the criteria you use to judge others? If you say you don't like Christian because they are loud, obnoxious, and "in your face" - isn't that a rather obnoxious "in your face" statement?

Is this double standard just not glaringly obvious?

 

[Silver]

I don't care when a Christian voices his beliefs.

I do care when they start to attempt to do things like amend the Constitution to enforce their moral beliefs.

You'll notice I don't bash the Amish for not using cars, right? They also aren't out there trying to outlaw car use for everyone else.

 

[Tenchiro]

Originally posted by Andyman_1970
Again, you guys have failed to answer the question: WHY is it "ok" for youin's (that's and Arkansas word) to run down Christians (your beliefs), but you guys get your feathers all in a wad when a Christian voices their beliefs?

Is it because you are "immune" to the criteria you use to judge others? If you say you don't like Christian because they are loud, obnoxious, and "in your face" - isn't that a rather obnoxious "in your face" statement?

Is this double standard just not glaringly obvious?

Personally I don't really care what christians believe, and as long as christians don't try to force feed them to me, I will return the favor.

Things like a cross on some city office or that freaky illuminati eye on the dollar bill really don't bother me. But when people like the Bush family try to legislate those beliefs and enforce them on a populace that includes non-beleivers. That is just wrong.

For the record, some Atheists are just as annoying. What with their cry baby efforts to rid the world of everything religious.

EDIT - Damn, Silver jinxed me... Stupid work.

 

[BuddhaRoadkill]

Originally posted by Andyman_1970
Is this double standard just not glaringly obvious?

Ye'Old Hating the Haters paradox.

Socially, it's ok to hate those who hate - it's seen as self-defense.
But it's hate none the less, so is it hypocrisy? And then again, can we realistically always turn the other cheek?

I think the reason most people feel justified in bashing Christians [in general], is that it's seen as a counter-attack. Religions have this annoying habit of trying to force others to live by their rules. If the religious went about their business without infringing on others, they wouldn't recieve nearly as much hostility.

Silvers Amish anology pretty much nails it.

 

[Andyman_1970]

I think one thing that most Christians and non-Christians need to realize there is a HUGE difference between being religious and knowing God (Biblically).

It's funny the religious crowd I think have missed the boat so to speak. Granted I disagree with abortion and the whole homosexual thing, but I think the Christian "right" are not going about this Biblically. Granted we are to be an influnce on the world around us, but not what we can force others to do, but by how we live our lives, that would cause others to "wonder what's up". That's why Christianity as a whole has little credibility in our culture today, people see no authenticity, all they see is agenda.

It seems to me the Christian community distances itself from abortion Dr's and gays. But who did Jesus hang out with, the gays and abortion Dr's of His day. Why did he do that? So he could be an influence on them at a "micro" level rather than the "macro" political level. I think that is part of the problem with US Christianity, we focus too much on the "macro" and not enough on living an authentic faith out in front of those who need to see it (like Jesus did). When things start changing on the "micro" level, that will make it's way to the "macro" level. And even if it doesn't, the "micro" level is what it's all about, showing people what it's really like, not making constitutional amendments.

Jesus never forced His views on anyone, he gave people a choice. The rich young ruler that He told to give up all his stuff (and decided not to), Jesus didn't chase after him and try to persuade him.

 

[LordOpie]

Originally posted by Andyman_1970
...knowing God (Biblically).

sorry, gotta do it...

that just sounds soooo wrong. Who's doing the knowing? :devil:

 

[Tenchiro]

Originally posted by LordOpie
sorry, gotta do it...

that just sounds soooo wrong. Who's doing the knowing? :devil:

Reminds me of Faith +1's lyrics...

I need you in my life, Jesus. I can't live without you, Jesus.
And I just want to feel you deep inside me, Jesus.

Don't ever leave me, Jesus. I couldn't stand to see you go.
My heart would simply snap, my Lord, if you walked on out that door.
I promise I'll be good to you, and keep you warm at night.
Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, why don't we just... shut off the lights.

I love you, Jesus, I want you to walk with me.
I'll take good care of you baby. Call you my baby, baby!
You died for my sins, and you know that I would die for you, right?
What's the matter, baby? You tremble at Jesus, baby! Your love, is my life!
You'ld know when I talk too, there's a blackhole in my life! Ooooh!
I want'a believe, it's alright, cause I get lonely in the night and it's up to you to save me, Jesus, baby!

Oh Lord you are my savior! You know I miss you so much when you are gone.
Yes I may be born again, but I wasn't born again yesterday.
I want'a get down on my knees and start pleasing Jesus. I want'a feel his salvation all over my face.
The body of Christ, sleek swimmer's body, all muscled up and toned.
The body of Christ, Oh, Lord Almighty, I wish I could call it my own.
You're one time, two times, three times my Savior...
Whenever I see Jesus up on that cross I can't help but think that he looks kind'a hot...

 

[$tinkle]

Originally posted by Tenchiro
But when people like the Bush family try to legislate those beliefs and enforce them on a populace that includes non-beleivers. That is just wrong.

where you see legislation by a family, i see the elected officials performing the task preferred by their constituency. Can not the same charge be made of legislation overturned or blocked by "activists jurists" that i don't prefer, and that is bolstered by the ACLU?

here's a good example filed yesterday:

BOSTON -- State lawmakers who oppose gay marriage yesterday renewed their long-shot bid to oust the Supreme Judicial Court justices who penned the majority opinion that made same sex weddings legal in Massachusetts.

Lawmakers have filed legislation that would take the extraordinary step of removing Chief Justice Margaret H. Marshall for a variety of alleged violations of the state code of judicial conduct, mainly that she was biased toward gay people.

They accuse Marshall of attending two political events in 1999 and 2000 honoring gay and lesbian advocates, that Marshall "encouraged" lawyers for gay and lesbian couples to bring the lawsuit for the right to marry, and that Marshall "chased" media outlets to bring publicity to herself.

north adams x-script

 

[RhinofromWA]

Just for clarification.........

Silver is arguing Jews are a race, and not a religion in that the Germans meant to eliminate the Jews (black, white, purple, green people) from the earth. If your decendants were jews than you are no matter what. Now did Hitler seperate the "new Jews" from the "old Jews" for the killing? I don't know. If you are of non-jewish bloodline but decide to take up the jewish religions would you still be killed? I am assuming Hitler was killing off the bloodline that Hitler found to be tainted.....hence killing previous jews that now take up another religion.

Andy and company are agruing Jews are a religious group point of view. Jews being Jewish and all.

A religion is something one can change.....race is not. (insert Micheal Jackson joke.....here)

I find it a weak seperation that killing someone for their beleifs is somehow better than killing them for thier race.

 

[Tenchiro]

I can't beleive all this arguing about an off hand comment about feeding someone to the lions.

 

[nicklin]

Originally posted by Silver
I don't care when a Christian voices his beliefs.

I do care when they start to attempt to do things like amend the Constitution to enforce their moral beliefs.

You'll notice I don't bash the Amish for not using cars, right? They also aren't out there trying to outlaw car use for everyone else.

good point. the seperation of church and state is what America is based on, that's what the English system is based on i nthe first place. You want a highly religious state that integrates religion into government operations and everyday civil functions? check out Iran, i heard their religion is really helping their economy

Besides, to add to that, in the last 2000 years, how many times have Chirstians become the victims of wide-spread genocide in the western world?(I know it happens in the third world , since the christians are often the market-dominating minorities as the result of colonialism, the backlash can be severe.) The basis of evangelical Chistianity is the fear that the end of the world from infidels in the form of apocolyptic catastrophe. The christians are in fear wherever they go, and there is no basis ofthat. When you put the world Christians and Genocide togather usually involves "the christians are responsible for the genocide of ____"
Like the old frontiersmen said, the only good indian is a dead indian, isn't that the attitude of a lot of christians? the only people suitabl to go to heaven are christians, no one else.

 

[$tinkle]

Originally posted by RhinofromWA
Silver is arguing Jews are a race, and not a religion in that the Germans meant to eliminate the Jews (black, white, purple, green people) from the earth.

hitler was easier to figure out.

For the case of the jews, he equated the jewish religion with the jewish infestation, manifested by persons with measurable characteristics (e.g. breadth of nose, distance between eyes, rhino features )

i'm not sure how he figured out who was gay, or that other group of outcasts (schindler's list might refer to it).

 

[nicklin]

Originally posted by RhinofromWA
Just for clarification.........

Silver is arguing Jews are a race, and not a religion in that the Germans meant to eliminate the Jews (black, white, purple, green people) from the earth. If your decendants were jews than you are no matter what. Now did Hitler seperate the "new Jews" from the "old Jews" for the killing? I don't know. If you are of non-jewish bloodline but decide to take up the jewish religions would you still be killed? I am assuming Hitler was killing off the bloodline that Hitler found to be tainted.....hence killing previous jews that now take up another religion.

Andy and company are agruing Jews are a religious group point of view. Jews being Jewish and all.

there were two situations.
in Germany, the big part of genocide was making family trees in schools, and the kids would be forced to list his/her family from 4 or five generations back, and all those who had even one jewish ancestors would be sent to camps, so would those o nthe tree who happened to be alive. All Jews, even if they are 7/8 or 15/16th German, with german last names, christians, are thrown into camps. There was a comon sight, very sad, that the aryan(german) mothers gather at the camp doors begging for their sons' release by claiming the kids were extra-marital affairs with german lovers. of course, those very few who did get ou this way were blond, blue-eyed.
in germany, a jew who converted to catholicism is a dead jew, since the germans didn't tolerate catholics in germany as well.

in other parts it's equally as bad, but if the kids are converted to catholics, sometimes they were spared, provided that they had the local last names and intergrate enough. not so in eastern euprope, where the neighbors literally arrested their jewish neighbors and saw them getting o nthe trai ngoing to camps.

yeah, it was a race thing, but being jewish was the excuse.

 

[BuddhaRoadkill]

Originally posted by Tenchiro
I can't beleive all this arguing about an off hand comment about feeding someone to the lions.

+2 Troll points for me.

 

[LordOpie]

Originally posted by BuddhaRoadkill
+2 Troll points for me.

someone's been playing a bit too much D&D

 

[Tenchiro]

Originally posted by BuddhaRoadkill
+2 Troll points for me.

Back under the bridge with you!

 

[golgiaparatus]

Originally posted by RhinofromWA
Just for clarification.........

Silver is arguing Jews are a race, and not a religion in that the Germans meant to eliminate the Jews (black, white, purple, green people) from the earth. If your decendants were jews than you are no matter what. Now did Hitler seperate the "new Jews" from the "old Jews" for the killing? I don't know. If you are of non-jewish bloodline but decide to take up the jewish religions would you still be killed? I am assuming Hitler was killing off the bloodline that Hitler found to be tainted.....hence killing previous jews that now take up another religion.

Andy and company are agruing Jews are a religious group point of view. Jews being Jewish and all.

A religion is something one can change.....race is not. (insert Micheal Jackson joke.....here)

I find it a weak seperation that killing someone for their beleifs is somehow better than killing them for thier race.

He was trying to create the "master race". I always thought it was the Jewish people he wanted to extinguish not so much the religion.

 

[golgiaparatus]

Originally posted by nicklin
The only people suitabl to go to heaven are christians, no one else.

This is in my top 3-4 beefs with Christianity.

 

[shocktower]

I feel your very weak so fricking weak ,you need to read a book written years ago by who knows ,and you believe what is written, try steven king it`s a book it`s true really it is. The one thing I like about one group Catholics cause they dress their young girls just right . Ok Babba Boohey

 

[Tenchiro]

Originally posted by golgiaparatus
This is in my top 3-4 beefs with Christianity.

I am just glad they have their own place to go, away from the rest of us.

 

[RhinofromWA]

Originally posted by golgiaparatus
He was trying to create the "master race". I always thought it was the Jewish people he wanted to extinguish not so much the religion.

So killing people because of what god they beleive in is less terrible than killing people because of where they were born.....

I still don't see the massive gap between the two. TomAtO, tomatO I guess....( That doesn't translate into the writen language very well does it?) You know "pOtAtO, pOtatO" or something.....

Tell me how joking about killing people because of their religion is not as bad as joking about killing them because of thier blood line.

I know this is way off the original topic...*scratching head*... but I just don't see how one is justifiable over another. it is funny how people can justify (in this case christians) bashing one people over another.

Werd to Big Bird

Da Horn

 

[LordOpie]

Originally posted by RhinofromWA
I know this is way off the original topic...

as if that ever mattered

Originally posted by RhinofromWA
but I just don't see how one is justifiable over another. it is funny how people can justify (in this case christians) bashing one people over another.

was anyone justifying it?

 

[RhinofromWA]

Originally posted by LordOpie
was anyone justifying it?

From silver(*edit sorry): It is OK to joke about sending the christians to the lions......

Bull****.

If you think comparing Christian "persecution" in America today to the Holocaust is a valid comparision, you're off your rocker.

Either that or I missed the part where 5 or 6 million Christians were systematically murdered by the United States government.

Please explain to me how exactly Christians are being persectued these days in the US. Really, I'm all ears...

Race/culture attacked bad.....chosen religions attacked...oh well.

Except that the thread happens to be about "persecution" today in the United States.

Was was the first line of your first post in this thread again???

And your analogy still sucks. It's kind of hard to stop being Jewish, even if you don't subscribe to the mythical nonsense. No one is born Christian (unless you're a Calvinist, I guess.) The Jews in Germany couldn't stand up and say, "Don't believe it, not a Jew anymore!" See the difference?

From Tenchiro: Choose to join a religion when jews are jews are jews............screw them all.

I think it is acceptable to bash any arbitrary group, that people can choose to join. It's not like they don't have a choice to be a member after all.

So screw the Christians, Jews, Hindus, Muslims, Elks, Shriners, Boy Scouts, the VFW and especially the Young Republicans.

If they don't like that, well then screw 'em! .!. .!.

The great LO: Tie makes joking about past atrocities(sp?) OK

that's true, even if you denounce judiasms, other jews just think you're taking a hiatus.

Plus, you have to consider the time frame... one was decades ago, the other millenia. They're both wrong, but as for scope of sensitivity, time does make a difference and I hope that one day people can joke about the gas chambers... cuz that'll mean enough time without any significant persecution has passed.

Silver again: Jews killed becuase race bad...christian followers OK becuase they choose it.

Nope, I'm being serious.

Let me walk you through this:

Jews were not persecuted by the Germans due to religious beliefs that could be changed. They were persecuted because they were Jewish.

Atheist with Jewish parents? Off to the camps.

Christian with Jewish parents? Off to the camps.

Judaist with Jewish parents? Off to the camps.

Do you see what I'm getting at? You've confused religion with race. Nero persecuted the Christians (a religion) while Hitler attempted genocide (and being non-religious didn't get you a "Get out of Buchenwald free" card.)

LO bringing it back to reality...kinda

PS: It's not ok to bash christians, I was strictly commenting on the lions "joke" and how there is a difference. Time heals all wounds... eventually and 60 years ain't enough. Blacks still complain about slavery... has enough time passed there? I don't hear any christians freaking out when they see a lion at the zoo

Sorry for all the quotes...

 

[LordOpie]

Rhino, I didn't fully follow your post, but I don't anyone was justifying it, just saying that the analogies weren't an apples-to-apples comparison?

 

[BuddhaRoadkill]

Quotalicious!!!

So what your asking is why the terrible continium? Why is the same action more/less evil under different circumstances?

In this case it's choice. It's less evil to kill someone for a reason they have chosen than for one of which they have no control. I think our legal system is founded on similar principles.

 

[RhinofromWA]

Originally posted by LordOpie
Rhino, I didn't fully follow your post, but I don't anyone was justifying it, just saying that the analogies weren't an apples-to-apples comparison?

They said that joking about killing jews was wrong.........

Joking about killing christians is OK......

Reasons given:
Time passing by
One trait is chosen and the other is a blood line

Maybe in the next generation when all teh people directly effected by Hilter have passed away they can joke about the gas chambers, eh? Yeah that will happen. How about SLavery...not to many people who were owned by people in the US still alive....mention that? I wouldn't....how much time is required?

"well you see it has been 900 months since anything like that happened so we can joke about it now." j/k Time is up to be sensitive I guess.

Time passing by eases society wounds but how does that make jpking about the events any less terrible....unless you didn't care. (really I can see me making a joke that would get me in trouble, at times I am less tha PC)

To say that it is OK to "make a funny" about killing christians but not Jews is, as far as I can see it, wrong. Don't get so up tight the next time a jew slaughter reference comes up I guess....time has passed...let us not forget it, but not be so sensitive about it either. It has been more than half a century already....grow come thicker skin....an Aryan might have to wear it later. (bad bad rhino.)

(qualifier: much of the tone in the last post is to show the lack of compasion for a groups past woes just because time has past)

 

[LordOpie]

Originally posted by RhinofromWA
They said that joking about killing jews was wrong.........

Joking about killing christians is OK......

I'm sorry, WHO said it was OK to joke?

 

[LordOpie]

Rhino,

I'm really annoying you, huh? You're trying to troll me and I ain't playing.

If you wanna play, try these...
-- SM, even I could done the Ski-Sea roadie segment in 1:30.
-- N8, GWB looks like Gomer Pyle after a buttfvck.
-- $tinkle's supports homesexuals cuz he drinks Coors beer.

:devil:

Your friend,
da Jew

 

[RhinofromWA]

Originally posted by BuddhaRoadkill
Quotalicious!!!

yeah sorry about that :

So what your asking is why the terrible continium? Why is the same action more/less evil under different circumstances?

In this case it's choice. It's less evil to kill someone for a reason they have chosen than for one of which they have no control. I think our legal system is founded on similar principles.

Founded no......blinded by yes.

People are generally punished from their actions. If one is found "temporarily insane" they can often get off. I dissagree with that...of course you are temp insane. Other people call it rage....you chose to dealwith it poorly. Now you should not be protected because you couldn't stop yourself. Mentally challenged people can get off because they don't understand the full effect of their actions....if tht is the case they need to be removed from those who do a better job of it.

Choice of religion isn't the same as choosing to shoot your old womans lover.

Killing someone for simply being Christian is no different than killing someone for simply being a Jew

 

[RhinofromWA]

Originally posted by LordOpie
Rhino,

I'm really annoying you, huh? You're trying to troll me and I ain't playing.

If you wanna play, try these...
-- SM, even I could done the Ski-Sea roadie segment in 1:30.
-- N8, GWB looks like Gomer Pyle after a buttfvck.
-- $tinkle's supports homesexuals cuz he drinks Coors beer.

:devil:

Your friend,
da Jew

Nothing that devious I assure you. You weren't even a big part of the interaction I reviewed earlier. You added the element of time easing pain....which is good.

I quoted the correct participants. Their words speak for themselves.

They are comparing apples to apples. Killing of innocents for simply being something (be it Jeew or Christian) is the same. Granted it might be Granny smiths and Golden delicious apples....but I digress.

My last post to you were I could be considered trolling had a nice disclaimer after teh wearing a jews skin comment. Maybe in a couple hundred years it will be funny? Don't think so....not to a person of Jewish decent. Why should the christian killings be handled differently?

No trolling...truely. There is only a difference in time....and that shouldn't be a factor. Everyone was thinking it was funny and joking about it....well it seemed in bad taste when everyone gave reasons why joking about the treatment of jews is wrong and christians are OK.

 

[RhinofromWA]

Originally posted by LordOpie
I'm sorry, WHO said it was OK to joke?

Anyone trying to justify the difference of joking about the jews and the christians being slaughtered. Simple enough.....I didn't even see you as being the big part of it....but quoted your passage of time arguement. It is a good arguement for the difference. Just doesn't justify it.

Da Horn

 

[LordOpie]

I know nothing about the roman's killing christians using lions other than TV...

Were the Romans trying to kill off every christian?