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$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
5
Are Cameras the New Guns?
In response to a flood of Facebook and YouTube videos that depict police abuse, a new trend in law enforcement is gaining popularity. In at least three states, it is now illegal to record any on-duty police officer.

Even if the encounter involves you and may be necessary to your defense, and even if the recording is on a public street where no expectation of privacy exists.

The legal justification for arresting the "shooter" rests on existing wiretapping or eavesdropping laws, with statutes against obstructing law enforcement sometimes cited. Illinois, Massachusetts, and Maryland are among the 12 states in which all parties must consent for a recording to be legal unless, as with TV news crews, it is obvious to all that recording is underway. Since the police do not consent, the camera-wielder can be arrested. Most all-party-consent states also include an exception for recording in public places where "no expectation of privacy exists" (Illinois does not) but in practice this exception is not being recognized.

Massachusetts attorney June Jensen represented Simon Glik who was arrested for such a recording. She explained, "[T]he statute has been misconstrued by Boston police. You could go to the Boston Common and snap pictures and record if you want." Legal scholar and professor Jonathan Turley agrees, "The police are basing this claim on a ridiculous reading of the two-party consent surveillance law - requiring all parties to consent to being taped. I have written in the area of surveillance law and can say that this is utter nonsense."

The courts, however, disagree. A few weeks ago, an Illinois judge rejected a motion to dismiss an eavesdropping charge against Christopher Drew, who recorded his own arrest for selling one-dollar artwork on the streets of Chicago. Although the misdemeanor charges of not having a peddler's license and peddling in a prohibited area were dropped, Drew is being prosecuted for illegal recording, a Class I felony punishable by 4 to 15 years in prison.
 

Silver

find me a tampon
Jul 20, 2002
10,846
0
Orange County, CA
Well, as you know, the video doesn't tell the whole story. It frequently shows cops doing things like...blatantly lying about the situation.
 

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
5
so, your store gets robbed, you call the cops. cops come over & arrest you for now having them on surveillance, as well as the perp.

and according to the article, a felony at that.

brilliant.
 

kidwoo

Celebrating No-Pants Day
Aug 25, 2003
22,964
2,553
In my pants
Most all-party-consent states also include an exception for recording in public places where "no expectation of privacy exists" (Illinois does not) but in practice this exception is not being recognized.

So uh.......start fvcking recognizing it.
 

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
5
- exonerating evidence can be suppressed
- cops should have black tape over their eyes while on duty to conceal their id
- isn't this ironically at odds w/ the patriot act?
- when was the 4th amendment repealed?
- ceiling cat is a felon
- fotogs filming treatment of uppity negroes in past decades acted feloniously
- QIK stock to surge

ass:
 

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
5
i still can't watch this w/o getting twitchy:


vids like this won't see light if this madness continues
 

sanjuro

Tube Smuggler
Sep 13, 2004
17,411
0
SF
I really wonder about the First Amendment here.

Let's get real: this is just to protect the police from documenting their BS. But I can't see how filming a stop on the street is "eavesdropping".
 

Silver

find me a tampon
Jul 20, 2002
10,846
0
Orange County, CA
the motorcyclist also got in trouble for filming the off-duty police officer without his consent and posting it on the internets
How the **** do you get in trouble for that, considering the guy has his gun out BEFORE he identifies himself as a police officer?

Prosecutorial misconduct, again.
 

IH8Rice

I'm Mr. Negative! I Fail!
Aug 2, 2008
24,550
490
Im over here now
How the **** do you get in trouble for that, considering the guy has his gun out BEFORE he identifies himself as a police officer?

Prosecutorial misconduct, again.
i always thought that if someone was in public, its all fair game.

....If you look at the video, the trooper steps out of an unmarked car, you can't see his badge and it is give seconds before he identifies himself as state police. But it's not the trooper who is in trouble; it's Graber.

"He had been recording this trooper audibly without his consent," stated said one official.

That kind of recording is against the law in Maryland. as a matter of fact, audibly recording somebody without their consent is a felony.

"Police show up at my house today. They come in and they take four computers, two laptops and my camera and they were going to arrest me," shared Graber.

Graber quickly learned the speeding ticket he got that day wasn't the end. He argues the plain-clothed trooper had to know he was being taped because of the visible camera mounted on Graber's helmet. Authorities argue the trooper did nothing wrong....
http://www.wjla.com/news/stories/0410/725740.html
 

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
5
can the equal protection clause of 14th amendment be applied here?

where's tubby to help sort all this out?
 

valve bouncer

Master Dildoist
Feb 11, 2002
7,791
36
Japan
im sure there are other posts similar but i thought i remembered posting something similar to this a while back. seems like the sheeple are just going to continue to let it slide :(
http://ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=182900
I think I spy an original use of the "video doesn't tell the whole story" defence by Mike D in there! It's like seeing the creation of a volcanic island in the Pacific.
As a partial aside, has the excelllent video about why you should never, under any circumstance, talk to the police, by Regents Law School professor James Duane been posted here. A little long but interesting. Here it is anyway.
 

Changleen

Paranoid Member
Jan 9, 2004
9,895
5
Hypernormality
Isn't this exactly the sort of thing the American populous is supposed to carry firearms to stop happening?

All of the above is pretty fascist IMO.
 

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
5
Isn't this exactly the sort of thing the American populous is supposed to carry firearms to stop happening?
we simply don't have enough yet. once you supersaturate, you then pull back into a point of stasis

welcome to thunderdome, bitch.
 

MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
10,369
428
chez moi
Everyone in law enforcement already has a complex, that's why they're in law enforcement in the first place.
Thanks for clearing that up.


Anyhow,
application of these statue in this manner is complete bull**** and I'm shocked judicial review hasn't kicked it out. But then again, maybe by the letter of the law, it works, and the fault is with the legislators...judges can only apply what's been written.

Ed: Tags. "f/5.6 da police" :rofl: My money's on $tinkle for that one.
 
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JohnE

filthy rascist
May 13, 2005
12,646
664
Front Range, dude...
Thanks for clearing that up.


Anyhow,
application of these statue in this manner is complete bull**** and I'm shocked judicial review hasn't kicked it out. But then again, maybe by the letter of the law, it works, and the fault is with the legislators...judges can only apply what's been written.

Ed: Tags. "f/5.6 da police" :rofl: My money's on $tinkle for that one.
I know you arent truly worried about an idiotic statement like that.
 

MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
10,369
428
chez moi
I know you arent truly worried about an idiotic statement like that.
No, I just wanna hear something new for once.

See, people say that cops have a complex which is a complex in and of itself, kind of like a complex complex. But do I have a complex for thinking that they all have a complex complex too? And does that mean I have a complex complex complex?? My pig head hurts.

You can see why I'd like to take it in another direction now, right?
 

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
5
update: Growing Number of Prosecutions for Videotaping the Police
"The argument is, 'Well, can a police officer beside the highway have a private conversation with somebody that they pull over?'" said Joseph Cassilly, the Harford County prosecutor handling Graber's case.

Cassilly added, "Suppose a police officer pulled you over and he wanted to have a talk with you. 'Sir, I smell alcohol on your breath. Can you talk to me about how much you've had to drink? Would you want somebody else to stop by and record that and put it on the Internet?"

Rocah of the ACLU disagreed. "It's not that recording any conversation is illegal without consent. It's that recording a private conversation is illegal without consent," he said. "So then the question is, 'Are the words of a police officer spoken on duty, in uniform, in public a 'private conversation.' And every court that has ever considered that question has said that they are not."

Rocah said actual wiretapping prosecutions, though rare, are happening more frequently. But intimidation with the threat of arrest for taping the police is much more common.

"Prosecution is only the most extreme end of a continuum of police and official intimidation and there's a lot of intimidation that goes on and has been going on short of prosecution," he said. "It's far more frequent for an officer to just say, 'You can't record or give me your camera or give me your cell phone and if you don't I'm going to arrest you. Very few people want to test the veracity of that threat and so comply. It's much more difficult to document, much more prevalent and equally improper."
 

rockofullr

confused
Jun 11, 2009
7,356
913
East Bay, Cali
Meh, morons always talk smack about cops, until they need one. I am over it.

Can we all agree that cops fvck up, just like the rest of us :eek:. They should probably take the tasering, beating, shooting, etc. down a notch (not all, just some).

People who are cops/want to be cops/have a cop in the family/whatever, you don't need to defend every action by other officers.

I'm an engineer and I don't jump to tell people that they can't understand how hard it is to design a bridge when "Engineering Disasters" comes on the History Channel. It's hard to predict every variable in a huge project and one botched equation can result in loss of life or large amounts of $$$ but no one cares. They expect engineers to get it right, and if they don't get it right people will probably talk mad sh!t.

Cops should stand for law and order, protect and serve. So just like the morally conservative politician who turns out to be gay, if you stand for one thing and don't appear to walk the walk you will end up in the paper and people will talk sh!t on you. Boohoo get over it.

To make a long story short, this argument is getting really old and to be honest I don't think their is any real point being debated.
 
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JohnE

filthy rascist
May 13, 2005
12,646
664
Front Range, dude...
Can we all agree that cops fvck up, just like the rest of us :eek:. They should probably take the tasering, beating, shooting, etc. down a notch (not all, just some).
I think most of us have...but some of us need to realize that Cops are human. Humans are not perfect, but name me another career where you are expected to be perfect...and btw, I am a military Cop, and a former civilian Cop. I am the first to call a moron a moron.
 

rockofullr

confused
Jun 11, 2009
7,356
913
East Bay, Cali
This all stinks of police state bullsh!t to me. I'm really glad to see that there are people out there who are pushing back against this kind of intimidation and unjustified arrests.