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active under braking suspension

no skid marks

Monkey
Jan 15, 2006
2,511
29
ACT Australia
Everything is a compromise, choose the best one for you.
Floating brakes I find are good if you're not riding often and in the zone so to speak. If you're riding regularily, I find more squat makes the rear end more acurate feeling, and if you're in control and riding agressively, the rear skipping doesn't concern you as much as you're muscling the bike along with your momentum, confidence and power more than just hanging on cruising through the "chunder".
This is from my high single pivot riding perspective, but that's an exagerated view of most designs anyway.
Ideally a floater with controlled squat like DW described would be ideal on a high single pivot, but again, the weight gain probably makes the compromise tip the wrong way on my scale anyway.
The floater with different mounts on the Balfa BB7 was a handy idea.
Again as DW and others mentioned, all designs can be made to act differently when braking, some easier than others.
 
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Gary

"S" is for "neo-luddite"
Aug 27, 2002
7,692
5,621
UK
Saruti - I went straight from a 04 SGS to a Sunday too, after one run down Fort William DH track I was more than happy with the rear suspension performance while braking through rough sections compared to the SGS (I always brake far too much on my first run up there)
I still have both bikes and side by side the Sunday is def noticably slacker and lower. I run my SGS with an E13 zero stack reducer headset, old 7" 888s with flat crowns and stanchions raised to max and it still has a BB height higher than I'd like, I've run 7" Boxxers and an old skool 7" monster T on it too.. running 8" 888s the BB height becomes a bit retarded for me. (the stanchions on my 7" 888s are the same length as the 8" fork so I have checked)
 

saruti

Turbo Monkey
Oct 29, 2006
1,169
73
Israel
DW. thank you for your answers
Maybe the Sunday height (lower than the SGS) was what made me feel like the SGS was slacker…
And the one I tested back then was built bad…
But I am glad I made the headset cups changes back then (I think I was the first who make his Sunday slacker)
I love the Sunday. Don’t think there is anything better these days (63 slack and RC4 in the back).
You just made me love it even more now
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
21,094
6,031
borcester rhymes
Here's a question for you guys to think about: What is your definition of "Active" ?
my theory of "active" is no input from braking into suspension. IE, no squat nor extension when braking, and no change of bump absorption/leverage rates by brake activation.

I know most modern riders don't like this because it effectively unsettles the geometry via fork dive, but I think the benefits are worth it still.
 

karpi

Monkey
Apr 17, 2006
904
0
Santiasco, Chile
my theory of "active" is no input from braking into suspension. IE, no squat nor extension when braking, and no change of bump absorption/leverage rates by brake activation.

I know most modern riders don't like this because it effectively unsettles the geometry via fork dive, but I think the benefits are worth it still.
Fork dive is a bitch! It can be controlled by good damping however.

http://video.mpora.com/watch/A9seqqFMD/hd/

This is why I don't like single pivots withouth floating brakes. Check out the TR450 at the beggining of the video.

I have a huge dash on my left leg from pedal pins that remind me of what an "unactive" rear end through braking feels like!
 

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,376
1,611
Warsaw :/
Fork dive is a bitch! It can be controlled by good damping however.
It can but I'd rather the bike didn't force me to run more damping than I normally do. The 888 dive fetish made me do that as well and I hated it.
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
21,094
6,031
borcester rhymes
I'd really love to experiment with a floating linkage for a fork. I think that could be rad as hell and not add much weight. Imagine being able to slam on the brakes at the last second before a hard 90* turn instead of braking way out...would be way difficult on a non-inverted fork though.
 

Whoops

Turbo Monkey
Jul 9, 2006
1,011
0
New Zealand
Soooo DW, any plans to expand your efforts beyond frames? Going for a full-factory-effort (FFE)?

Or maybe 'funny front end'?
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
21,094
6,031
borcester rhymes
they did those back in the 90's, look them up!
oh sure...I mean you can build a freakshow like this:
or this:


but I'm thinking more like this:
or even a brake bar like therapy components makes mounted on a normal fork. The key is to create something that can be relatively easily mounted onto a normal, over the counter fork. People will never line up to buy linkage forks like they do whatever RS craps out....so if you could slap on a brake bar at the cost of 150g, people would have the option of adding it. Make some simple adjustments available so the fork either stays active or extends, and there you have it.

I'd love to look into creating a linkage fork, but I don't have machine shop capabilities.