[D00Mpunch]

Hey gang,

I recently purchased a pre-owned 2019 Ibis Ripmo with the Grip 2 Damper on the Fox 36 and man, am I having a Hell of a time...

I began by setting up the suspension the same way I always have - starting with the manufacturer recommendations and tweaking from there but after two months of fairly regular riding, I can not seem to figure out this (well regarded) fork at all.

The fork has always felt extremely firm, which I don't mind. The main issue is that I cannot seem to use full travel while keeping the damping composed. It seems like I end up in a scenario where the fork seems either firm, bumpy but controlled while using 140-145mm travel or wide open, vague and floppy where I get full travel on big hits but have to trade predictability for a more dangerous ride.

Here's what I've currently been running:

2 tokens installed
Rider weight - 220 lbs
PSI - 105
LSC - 6 clicks from closed
HSC - 12-14 clicks from closed
LSR - 2-3 clicks from closed
HSR - closed

I've experimented with a wide variety of PSI and sag and overall, the discrepancy I'm seeing vs the factory recommended settings even while setting base sag has me wondering if something else may be going on. For example, I weigh about 220lbs with riding gear on and according to Ibis and Fox a good starting point to reach 15-20% sag is between 88 and 93 psi. I currently have to put in around 106 psi to be close to even 28% sag. Having say 95 psi puts me at about 40%!

Has anyone else had an issue like this? As of today I've "burped" the lowers to release any air caught in the negative chambers and removed a token. Will be going out for a short ride this afternoon to test.

Any help or insight appreciated!

 

[Jm_]

Have you searched for any videos on pornohub with these terms?

 

[Nick]

I don't think I'd ever had a 36 that was tuned for a good ride and allowed me to get full travel. It's like there was always 15-20mm of "oh shit emergency" travel in reserve.

 

[6thElement]

Didn't @Westy have an issue with too much grease inside one side from the factory causing issues?

@Westy to the courtesy phone please.

 

[englertracing]

The main issue is that I cannot seem to use full travel

2 tokens installed

You cant use the travel but you have your tokens in


Remove both....


Im 190lbs and i run 95psi
But i can tell you your rebound has to be too slow.
You have to be packing.....
Hsr 3-4-5
Lsr 3-4-5

The comp stack in the grip 2 is a preload adjustable dished piston regressive piece of shit...... That operates more like a threshold adjuster than a high speed circiut you would want in an offroad application 16 -18 is around where you arent preloading the stack and is a good place to be

6 lsc is fine ish....

And i would check to see that you dont have half a tub of grease in the negative chamber.

 

[englertracing]

Take out the other spacer throw it across the street
I went so far as an anti spacer for testing

 

[Westy]

Didn't @Westy have an issue with too much grease inside one side from the factory causing issues?

@Westy to the courtesy phone please.

Yes. The fork came on a used bike and the previous owner admitted he was selling it (at a great price) because he couldn't get the suspension to not feel super harsh. A few rides and I agreed. It was always harsh, backing off pressure or compression damping just caused it to ride low, lack support and always be in the steep part of the spring curve.

I pulled it apart and found that a good 3rd of the negative spring was full of slick honey. Cleaned it up and immediately the fork felt better, but not quite right. Previous owner had installed an MRP ramp control cartridge in an attempt to fix the fork, I think it made it worse. Replaced it with a token and it only took a bit of tweaking beyond the recommended setting for it to feel pretty good.

I can't say I get full travel, but close enough. Mostly it doesn't feel so harsh that I am sitting back wondering why I am not getting full travel. I am happy to have that little extra for the Oh Shit moments that I haven't had with it yet.

 

[Westy]

The other thing I found out was that opening up the HSC too much basically negated any affect of the LSC, so more than 12 or so clicks out on the HSC made the fork feel like it was running wide open. You need that HSC there or the fork will have lower dynamic sag, again running on the steeper and harsher part of the spring curve. Opening up the LSR will also let it run dynamically higher. So plenty of HSR for control, open up that LSR for poppyness and less dynamic sag. With these settings 25% static sag felt pretty damn good.

It took a while for me to get there, and it was frustrating, but once I got the fork dialed in I love it. Ironically, it was also on a used Ripmo.

 

[englertracing]

Westy
Open your fork cap,
Slide off the orange thing
Do one of those softball windmill windups and pitch the thing over your cross the street neghibors house into their back yard....

It will help

 

[Westy]

Westy
Open your fork cap,
Slide off the orange thing
Do one of those softball windmill windups and pitch the thing over your cross the street neghibors house into their back yard....

It will help

I think I finally settled on zero spacers. The spacer was the first step in getting rid of the MRP cartridge which just introduced massive inconsistency in performance.

 

[Jeremy R]

I don't think I'd ever had a 36 that was tuned for a good ride and allowed me to get full travel. It's like there was always 15-20mm of "oh shit emergency" travel in reserve.

Yep, I got a ‘20 36 grip2 right when they came out last spring. I had it setup perfect for trails, and even did a couple of enduro races on it, but still had over 1/2 inch of travel I was not even using. I left it alone because it was working great.
Then I went to the local bike park, and they had a big road gap with a mellow landing. I used full travel 4 of the 5 times I hit it. The fork used full travel but still did bottom harshly at all.
So, for sure, set the fork up by feel and don’t worry about using full travel until you need it.

 

[D00Mpunch]

You cant use the travel but you have your tokens in


Remove both....


Im 190lbs and i run 95psi
But i can tell you your rebound has to be too slow.
You have to be packing.....
Hsr 3-4-5
Lsr 3-4-5

The comp stack in the grip 2 is a preload adjustable dished piston regressive piece of shit...... That operates more like a threshold adjuster than a high speed circiut you would want in an offroad application 16 -18 is around where you arent preloading the stack and is a good place to be

6 lsc is fine ish....

And i would check to see that you dont have half a tub of grease in the negative chamber.

Absolutely agree. My thought process here was that I wanted to make a small change and do a test ride to see if I needed the second token out or not. After my ride yesterday there is no denying the fork is much more plush off the top but only if I run it at about 25-30% SAG rather than the factory recommended 15-20%.

I'm definitely interested in your thoughts on me packing out with my current rebound settings. I'll admit I've only been riding seriously for just over a year so my knowledge is limited but my mindset was basically:

-I'm not using full travel
-slowing down rebound will allow the fork to work through it's travel over sustained hits (it won't bounce back to recover faster than the hits)
-those rebound settings are again in line with the setup suggestions for my PSI

I'm now realizing that there may be more to the rebound that that. To clarify - you're suggesting I run the HSC at fully open and keeping the LSC around where it is? Another strange thing I've had with the Fork is that it states there are 16 click of articulation for the HSC while in reality, I get 28-30 clicks to go from full closed to open.

I really appreciate everyone's insight and advice. I suppose my main concern is why the fork is behaving so differently than what the factory settings should indicate, especially when it comes to initial sag setup. For my weight they recommend 93 PSI to get 15% sag when I'd likely have to be nearer 120 PSI. Perhaps I'm placing far too much importance on the manual.

 

[D00Mpunch]

Yes. The fork came on a used bike and the previous owner admitted he was selling it (at a great price) because he couldn't get the suspension to not feel super harsh. A few rides and I agreed. It was always harsh, backing off pressure or compression damping just caused it to ride low, lack support and always be in the steep part of the spring curve.

I pulled it apart and found that a good 3rd of the negative spring was full of slick honey. Cleaned it up and immediately the fork felt better, but not quite right. Previous owner had installed an MRP ramp control cartridge in an attempt to fix the fork, I think it made it worse. Replaced it with a token and it only took a bit of tweaking beyond the recommended setting for it to feel pretty good.

I can't say I get full travel, but close enough. Mostly it doesn't feel so harsh that I am sitting back wondering why I am not getting full travel. I am happy to have that little extra for the Oh Shit moments that I haven't had with it yet.

Dude, this sounds exactly like what's happening. I actually have an appointment for a hub service and fork bath this coming Tuesday so I'll ask them to take a look when they pull it apart. I have an X2 on the back which I've been largely happy with but that's it's own beast and without the fork feeling somewhat decent, I'm hesitant to work on dealing in the back end.

 

[D00Mpunch]

Yep, I got a ‘20 36 grip2 right when they came out last spring. I had it setup perfect for trails, and even did a couple of enduro races on it, but still had over 1/2 inch of travel I was not even using. I left it alone because it was working great.
Then I went to the local bike park, and they had a big road gap with a mellow landing. I used full travel 4 of the 5 times I hit it. The fork used full travel but still did bottom harshly at all.
So, for sure, set the fork up by feel and don’t worry about using full travel until you need it.

Great advice - sounds like multiple folks here are echoing this sentiment as well so I'll adjust my mindset about that last 15 mm. I'm coming from a 2014 Trance with a Rockshox Sector so I would just bone through that thing from anything over 2 feet high. Now that I'm thinking more closely about it, there were very rare occasions I would see 95% travel used but I'm realizing now that my o-ring won't be maxed after every mellow blue or black trail...

Lastly, I'd love to hear from any 210 lb plus riders who have a GRIP 2. What's your experience been and how are you running your fork?

 

[englertracing]

Yep, I got a ‘20 36 grip2 right when they came out last spring. I had it setup perfect for trails, and even did a couple of enduro races on it, but still had over 1/2 inch of travel I was not even using. I left it alone because it was working great.
Then I went to the local bike park, and they had a big road gap with a mellow landing. I used full travel 4 of the 5 times I hit it. The fork used full travel but still did bottom harshly at all.
So, for sure, set the fork up by feel and don’t worry about using full travel until you need it.

Bet youve got a volume spacer?
What do you weigh
What pressure are you running

 

[englertracing]

Absolutely agree. My thought process here was that I wanted to make a small change and do a test ride to see if I needed the second token out or not. After my ride yesterday there is no denying the fork is much more plush off the top but only if I run it at about 25-30% SAG rather than the factory recommended 15-20%.

I'm definitely interested in your thoughts on me packing out with my current rebound settings. I'll admit I've only been riding seriously for just over a year so my knowledge is limited but my mindset was basically:

-I'm not using full travel
-slowing down rebound will allow the fork to work through it's travel over sustained hits (it won't bounce back to recover faster than the hits)
-those rebound settings are again in line with the setup suggestions for my PSI

I'm now realizing that there may be more to the rebound that that. To clarify - you're suggesting I run the HSC at fully open and keeping the LSC around where it is? Another strange thing I've had with the Fork is that it states there are 16 click of articulation for the HSC while in reality, I get 28-30 clicks to go from full closed to open.

I really appreciate everyone's insight and advice. I suppose my main concern is why the fork is behaving so differently than what the factory settings should indicate, especially when it comes to initial sag setup. For my weight they recommend 93 PSI to get 15% sag when I'd likely have to be nearer 120 PSI. Perhaps I'm placing far too much importance on the manual.

Re the rebound, You want the suspension to recover between obstacles. A, so that you will be in the softer initial part of the stroke not held deeper where its stiffer. B, so that you have full travel avaliable.

Infact you want the rebound as fast as you can without the side effects, front Bounce on landings, rear bucking, quick braking allowing really fast rear extension(rear)[almost more of a moto issue] and coming off the brake the front can extend quickly and screw up the like through the corner (usually the fork has to be soft on comp and or spring or blown to get this one)

Setting rebound on the faster side can feel plusher, setting the rebound a little slower can feel more predictable.

 

[englertracing]

Reguarding the comp
The piston is dished,
The intent of the hs adjuster is to ram the center of the shim down into the piston lower than the perimeter of the shim or to preload it
The beauty of a shim stack is that it has no preload and actually begins to deflect with essentially no force and is generally linear.

Preloading a shim stack on a dished piston creates a degressive curve, but it does so by creating a threshold, the preload force must be overcome before any fluid may pass.

So, progressive damping blows,
Mushy on braking, harsh on chatter.

Next is degressive ore regressive,
Firm low speed, soft high speed
Sounds awsome stiff for braking and cornering, soft for sharp edges
NOPE! on the sharp edges the wheel doesnt instantly accelerate into the high speed regon, the tire rolls up the sharp obstscle the suspension had mass that must accelerate, the low speed damping is encountered at initiation of high speed event and a disperportionate amount of low speed will be harsh on high speed events.

Linear
Its for the guys who have run the other two setups lol....
Straight and tapered single stage non preloaded shim stacks...

So back to the grip 2
Preloading the shim stack.... Mostly moves the bend on the degressive curve higher...
15 or 16 is no preload, more lets the shims lift right off. Its not supposed to go more than 16 or 18 clicks out... Infact theres a place to put more shims when its apart to prevent it from going "freeloaded". Fox failed to install them on some which lets you go like a shit load of clicks out.

 

[Jeremy R]

Bet youve got a volume spacer?
What do you weigh
What pressure are you running

I am running whatever came in the fork stock.
I weigh around 185.
And pressure wise, I run it close to Fox’s recommendation.
Now that i think about it, I have probably screwed around with this fork
less than any other I have owned. It just works for me.

 

[englertracing]

I am running whatever came in the fork stock.
I weigh around 185.
And pressure wise, I run it close to Fox’s recommendation.
Now that i think about it, I have probably screwed around with this fork
less than any other I have owned. It just works for me.

Step 1
Dump air pressure
Step 2
Grab your 32mm chamferless socket
Step 4
Unscrew cap
Step 5
Slide off spacer
Step 6
Put spacer in toilet and flush it
Step 7
Install fork cap
Step 8
Pressurize fork
Step 9
Enjoy a better working fork....

Im dead serious
Ive taken them out of all of my friends forks and they all love it....

 

[Flo33]

I got a better solution - install Vorsprung Smashpot and never look back...

 

[buckoW]

Enjoy a better working fork....

Im dead serious
Ive taken them out of all of my friends forks and they all love it....

It's funny how my friends with 4+ spacers complain of joint irritation and wallowy but still harsh forks and don't want to question the volume spacers. How did those things get so popular?

 

[Westy]

It's funny how my friends with 4+ spacers complain of joint irritation and wallowy but still harsh forks and don't want to question the volume spacers. How did those things get so popular?

I recently bought a used bike for cheap because the previous owner hated the suspension. It was full of spacers on both ends, and it was a harsh wollowy mess.

 

[englertracing]

It's funny how my friends with 4+ spacers complain of joint irritation and wallowy but still harsh forks and don't want to question the volume spacers. How did those things get so popular?

I think fox includes them in the fork rather than with the fork because it wont get lost that way

Maybe 1 or 2 might be approptiate for some people

Buy johnny derp who thinks hes fast and gets his suspension settings from the interwebz figures "well it comes with two and im like fast and shit and i doo big ass hucks so I need moar spacers than the average guy" ie i think moar spacers seems cool to derps, like "yeah man i go big i got 4 spacers"

 

[jonKranked]

I think fox includes them in the fork rather than with the fork because it wont get lost that way

Maybe 1 or 2 might be approptiate for some people

Buy johnny derp who thinks hes fast and gets his suspension settings from the interwebz figures "well it comes with two and im like fast and shit and i doo big ass hucks so I need moar spacers than the average guy" ie i think moar spacers seems cool to derps, like "yeah man i go big i got 4 spacers"

so "moar spacers" is the new "moar shimz"? @buckoW can you confirm?

 

[Blown240]

Any help or insight appreciated!

So I weigh about 10 pounds more than you and have the exact same for on an SB150. Here is my setup

96 psi
16 clicks HSC
8-9 clicks LSC

8 clicks HSR
10 clicks LSR

NO TOKENS

I am able to get travel up onto the Kashima logo on big hits, and the fork feels great climbing and on normal bumps.

 

[englertracing]

So I weigh about 10 pounds more than you and have the exact same for on an SB150. Here is my setup

96 psi
16 clicks HSC
8-9 clicks LSC

8 clicks HSR
10 clicks LSR

NO TOKENS

I am able to get travel up onto the Kashima logo on big hits, and the fork feels great climbing and on normal bumps.

Are those rebound settings from closed?

 

[Flo33]

Are those rebound settings from closed?

I doubt it, would be really fast.

 

[englertracing]

I doubt it, would be really fast.

Yeah especially with 96psi

 

[Blown240]

Those are from open... Sorry...

 

[englertracing]

Those are from open... Sorry...

for a handful of reasons suspension professionals count from fully closed.

 

[CMangrum]

Ran across this thread because I'm always looking for ways to improve ride. I'm 235ish lbs with the following settings on a 2020 grip2 170mm fork:

100psi
No tokens
Hsc 10
Lsc 6
Hsr 5
Lsr 7

Originally set to 20% sag, I've had to let out 10 psi to increase sag trying to get more travel. The settings above leave me with about 1.5 inches unused travel on downhill bike park trails. No huge drops or super hard landings, so it seems about right.
If I could change one thing it would be to soften up braking bump and small rock chatter. Just not sure what to change for that.

 

[englertracing]

Ran across this thread because I'm always looking for ways to improve ride. I'm 235ish lbs with the following settings on a 2020 grip2 170mm fork:

100psi
No tokens
Hsc 10
Lsc 6
Hsr 5
Lsr 7

Originally set to 20% sag, I've had to let out 10 psi to increase sag trying to get more travel. The settings above leave me with about 1.5 inches unused travel on downhill bike park trails. No huge drops or super hard landings, so it seems about right.
If I could change one thing it would be to soften up braking bump and small rock chatter. Just not sure what to change for that.

Ok no volume spacers,
Good start!
If you have the spares throwing them in your neighbors yard helps..

If I were you...
I would....
Back the hsc out, the hsc adjuster on these preloads shims, preloaded shims increases dampening through the whole range, and create a spike at low speed which must be encountered as all high speed movements begin as a low speed movement. Shoulda called it an "all speed except bleed adjuster", or "digressive piston preload adjuster"

So about that high speed adjuster, having it out more makes the shim stack behave in a more desirable linear fashion, this occurs somewhere in the 12-15 range somewhere 16 -18 or beyond the adjuster allows the stack to lift off the piston, meaning you no longer have any compression damping at all... and the lsc adjuster does nothing at all.

The other reason they can be choppy and or harsh is the design of the air spring, ive heard of tight pistons, and massively over greased negative chambers contributing to a bad feeling fork as well

You may find more Appropriate settings are
Putting your pressure back up to obtain sag
12 - 14 hsc
8-10 lsc
5-6 hsr
5-6 lsr

Just the observations I've made having a few of them apart and riding one for 2 years.

 

[Andeh]

Does the Vorsprung Luftkappe also deserved to be pitched into the neighbor's yard? According to Vorsprung, it's roughly equal to 1.5 tokens. Or does it's increased negative volume make it worth it?

My 160 GRIP2 with a Luftkappe feels fine but to be honest I never rode it without it. I put it on right when I got it since it felt good on my previous fork.
riding weight: ~175? dunno. 165 without gear
75 psi = 15% sag
6 HSR
9 LSR
6 HSC
6 LSC
(all from closed)

 

[CMangrum]

Ok no volume spacers,
Good start!
If you have the spares throwing them in your neighbors yard helps..

If I were you...
I would....
Back the hsc out, the hsc adjuster on these preloads shims, preloaded shims increases dampening through the whole range, and create a spike at low speed which must be encountered as all high speed movements begin as a low speed movement. Shoulda called it an "all speed except bleed adjuster", or "digressive piston preload adjuster"

So about that high speed adjuster, having it out more makes the shim stack behave in a more desirable linear fashion, this occurs somewhere in the 12-15 range somewhere 16 -18 or beyond the adjuster allows the stack to lift off the piston, meaning you no longer have any compression damping at all... and the lsc adjuster does nothing at all.

The other reason they can be choppy and or harsh is the design of the air spring, ive heard of tight pistons, and massively over greased negative chambers contributing to a bad feeling fork as well

You may find more Appropriate settings are
Putting your pressure back up to obtain sag
12 - 14 hsc
8-10 lsc
5-6 hsr
5-6 lsr

Just the observations I've made having a few of them apart and riding one for 2 years.

Right on, thanks for the recommendations. I'll give them a go and see how it feels!

 

[CMangrum]

Thanks again for the recommendations. I've put about 25 miles on these settings and here's what I've ended up with. This gives me pretty much full travel under heavy hits while still being supportive under regular riding. I'm 6'2" and 235lbs.

95psi (25% sag)
No tokens
Hsc 14
Lsc 10
Hsr 5
Lsr 6

 

[bmgseth]

@englertracing you are saving me brain damage with this beta! I just picked up brand new 2020 Megatower CCXO1 with the 36 - did the Enchilada for the "break in" ride and had the worst new bike day ever b/c of that fork. Was getting 3" of travel... awesome for Porcupine Rim right.
I get down to town and have the boys open her up to find 5, count em' FIVE goddamn tokens... C'Mon FOX!
Currently have 1 token left that I will now remove & throw at neighbor as Rx'd. But still not getting full travel. Other down side is the pedal bob on climbs, even if I crank the HSC tight for the climb. Also, I have 32 clicks available in the HSC (wtf)
I am 200lbs, bike is XL, I run snappy fast rebound and a reasonable "pop" to get front end up. Last 2 bikes were Bronsons with Pike's that were the lowest maintenance / one click here or there forks I ever had. Been riding 20yrs.
Do I work out the kinks on this 36 or start looking at a Lyrik or Zeb?
Thanks in advance, i will buy you a sandwich

 

[Jm_]

So pedal bob/diving if the LSC and HSC are maxed out? That's probably also being exacerbated by fast rebound, but you can only go so slow on most before it's packing bad. In many cases, you need a significant amount of HSC to make the LSC effective, but fluid will usually pass easier through the LSC circuit.

 

[Westy]

HSC isn't going to help you with pedal Bob, it will make it hard to get full travel.


Ditch any setting you had with all the spacers and start with the recommended ones.

 

[englertracing]

hey looks like you have some good advice I’ve been struggling with my 36 grip 2 for a while now, no mater what I do I’m holding on for dear life cause of how harsh it is , finally after reading some of your previous comments I have put this setting in seems a bit better but still a fairly harsh I’m a bit lighter then the other riders , any help appreciated.

megatower xl
Weight 75kg
25% sag
0 tokens
14 hsc
10 lsc
4 hsr
4 lsr

now using most of my travel possible I’ll need to add air for places with bigger drops. Any help appreciated.

If your 150lbs 4/4 seems really slow for the pressure your likely using.
I'd probably try hsr at least 6 but probably 7
And lsr at 6
Or 7

 

[Adventurous]

Reguarding the comp
The piston is dished,
The intent of the hs adjuster is to ram the center of the shim down into the piston lower than the perimeter of the shim or to preload it
The beauty of a shim stack is that it has no preload and actually begins to deflect with essentially no force and is generally linear.

Preloading a shim stack on a dished piston creates a degressive curve, but it does so by creating a threshold, the preload force must be overcome before any fluid may pass.

So, progressive damping blows,
Mushy on braking, harsh on chatter.

Next is degressive ore regressive,
Firm low speed, soft high speed
Sounds awsome stiff for braking and cornering, soft for sharp edges
NOPE! on the sharp edges the wheel doesnt instantly accelerate into the high speed regon, the tire rolls up the sharp obstscle the suspension had mass that must accelerate, the low speed damping is encountered at initiation of high speed event and a disperportionate amount of low speed will be harsh on high speed events.

Linear
Its for the guys who have run the other two setups lol....
Straight and tapered single stage non preloaded shim stacks...

So back to the grip 2
Preloading the shim stack.... Mostly moves the bend on the degressive curve higher...
15 or 16 is no preload, more lets the shims lift right off. Its not supposed to go more than 16 or 18 clicks out... Infact theres a place to put more shims when its apart to prevent it from going "freeloaded". Fox failed to install them on some which lets you go like a shit load of clicks out.

I think I'm fighting this same thing with the DPX2 on the rear of my SB5. The bike originally came with a DPS Float, that had practically no small bump compliance and was challenging pedaling through rough stuff. If I set it up for the right sag, there was no way I'd use full travel and it had no small bump compliance. Set for full travel and it had a little bit more small bump (but still a surprising lack) compliance but I could achieve full travel.

So I swapped on the DPX2, with a "lighter" damping profile, but it still isn't right. Small bump compliance is much better, but it wants to blow through its travel. I have the largest volume spacers in there and it still doesn't seem to help. 175 lbs geared up, for reference.

Setup:
160 psi
30% sag
2 clicks rebound
4 clicks compression
Largest volume spacer
Open damping setting
Evolv can

Not sure where to take it from here. 8 clicks compression? Rebuild & re-valve? It's better in the initial stroke, but blows through the mid/end stroke faster than it should, IMO.