[MadDHer]

I was reading a magazine w/ an article on Duncan Rifle's tuck, and the guys is very into it. He even rides on some aerodynamic leather shoes.
What about handlebars? Do you guys recommend some smaller, skinnier bars so there isn't much wind resistance?

Taking the visor off the helmet really helps? I heard about tights and all but not very sure if I should get a set.

 

[SuspectDevice]

Do you work for H3? Somebody trace this IP and I bet it comes from either H3 or Hi-Torque....

 

[konabiker]

I remember reading this article in BIKE magazine(I think it was atleast) about Nico V with Bossard. Bossard was talking about this one race where Nico tucked and conserved energy in a section where everyone else was sprinting their asses off, and how he won. I don't really remember it, but maybe someone else can chime in.

Here's my view on the aerodynamic ****. It you are amoung the top riders in the world, looking for every advantage you can get, I think it makes sense. Every fraction of a second counts for them. However, for Average Joe DH racer it's just not going to make enough of a difference, and looking pimp is waaaay more important

 

[Alpha Kenny Body]

I remember reading this article in BIKE magazine(I think it was atleast) about Nico V with Bossard. Bossard was talking about this one race where Nico tucked and conserved energy in a section where everyone else was sprinting their asses off, and how he won. I don't really remember it, but maybe someone else can chime in.

Here's my view on the aerodynamic ****. It you are amoung the top riders in the world, looking for every advantage you can get, I think it makes sense. Every fraction of a second counts for them. However, for Average Joe DH racer it's just not going to make enough of a difference, and looking pimp is waaaay more important

Dam!!! Now i got no excuse for using spandex...:bomb:

 

[c2001]

Do you work for H3? Somebody trace this IP and I bet it comes from either H3 or Hi-Torque....

if he worked for h3 he'd know it was NOT about "duncan's tuck" - duncan was just used as the prop in the studio.

 

[Radarr]

Wait, you guys mean you don't wear spandex when you're riding?

 

[SuspectDevice]

Wait, you guys mean you don't wear spandex when you're riding?

On no, **** yes I wear Spandex, **** man I wear spandex to miter tubes in the shop!

Sometime you just NEED the hooded Gimp suit.

 

[Bicyclist]

I remember reading this article in BIKE magazine(I think it was atleast) about Nico V with Bossard. Bossard was talking about this one race where Nico tucked and conserved energy in a section where everyone else was sprinting their asses off, and how he won. I don't really remember it, but maybe someone else can chime in.

Yeah, it was in Dirt. The reason he was faster is he conserved energy and was able to ride a lower tech section faster w/ more energy. The point of that article was that he used telemetry to determine time losses/gains w/ different techiques.

 

[TheInedibleHulk]

I tried the "egg tuck" as explained in Dirt on the fireroad at Bootleg this weekend when I realized my front brake was missing a bolt. Short of a fireroad I cant imagine a DH trail where you could really do that safely. Bascially all your weight is on the front wheel. The position duncan is in in that pick will get somebody killed. Also it tires your arms out pretty quick. I use the knees-in, sit back tuck alot for high speed sections like at anglefire and keystone. Try it with another rider of comprable weight on a fast section, one tucked and one not, and you will see what a difference it makes. Usually tucked and doing nothing is faster than sitting up and pedaling.

 

[Transcend]

It's a gimmick account judging by all the nonsense he is posting. Now to see if the real owner can be tracked down...

 

[greg447]

It's a gimmick account judging by all the nonsense he is posting. Now to see if the real owner can be tracked down...

I agree.

 

[Kevin]

Yeah, it was in Dirt. The reason he was faster is he conserved energy and was able to ride a lower tech section faster w/ more energy. The point of that article was that he used telemetry to determine time losses/gains w/ different techiques.

The article was about Nico pedalling a certain section and later coasting the same section to save power for the bottom part of the run.Had nothing to do with spandex.
I find it pretty hard to believe that a skinsuit will make an actuall difference since world cups arent decided on miliseconds 99% of the time. Let alone normal DH races.

 

[sayndesyn]

The Duncan thing is from the new Decline I believe... Just picked it up. The Nico thing had nothing to do with Spandex as Kevin said. It had to do with how well he handled a technical section with his heartrate pegged from sprinting into it, or going in without a sprint then riding the technical section faster. I think the point was that the tean was serious enough about winning to come at it from different strategies instead of just the typical shoot from the hip approach. I hate lycra, but have settled on spraying myself down with Pam before each run. So slippery and it smells tasty..

 

[Secret Squirrel]

The Duncan thing is from the new Decline I believe... Just picked it up. The Nico thing had nothing to do with Spandex as Kevin said. It had to do with how well he handled a technical section with his heartrate pegged from sprinting into it, or going in without a sprint then riding the technical section faster. I think the point was that the tean was serious enough about winning to come at it from different strategies instead of just the typical shoot from the hip approach. I hate lycra, but have settled on spraying myself down with Pam before each run. So slippery and it smells tasty..

"Watch out!! She's a squirter!!"

 

[Radarr]

The Duncan thing is from the new Decline I believe... Just picked it up. The Nico thing had nothing to do with Spandex as Kevin said. It had to do with how well he handled a technical section with his heartrate pegged from sprinting into it, or going in without a sprint then riding the technical section faster. I think the point was that the tean was serious enough about winning to come at it from different strategies instead of just the typical shoot from the hip approach. I hate lycra, but have settled on spraying myself down with Pam before each run. So slippery and it smells tasty..

And you don't stick to the frying pan, either.

 

[Eggzoi]

I was reading a magazine, somewhere. Dirt, MBUK, something like that.
Was an interview with one of the World Cup racers, once again I can't remember who.
Anyway, they said they did some timing and over one of the courses a skinsuit was about a 5 second advantage. This was a rider who doesn't wear skinsuits, I just can't remember who the hell it was.

 

[sayndesyn]

Gracia has said that before, not sure if it was him that time. Talking about Austria I believe..

 

[MadDHer]

Thanks guys! I will bring some tight jersey and maybe even shorts, depends on what the competition is wearing.

The problem now is the weather at Sea Otter. If it rains, I might end up riding in a rain jacket, and that could be just like a sail, but oh well.

 

[AR_]

Aslong as all Downhillers agree not to wear skinsuits, no-one will have a 5 second advantage, and everyone will have the advantage of not looking like a ponce.

 

[3D.]

Most downhillers lose all their time in the turns and rock sections, not the straights. Get fast in the the sections that really count, and then worry about the weeny suite.

 

[black noise]

Most downhillers lose all their time in the turns and rock sections, not the straights. Get fast in the the sections that really count, and then worry about the weeny suite.

Exactly. Honestly MadDHer, unless you're racing in a class where getting on the podium is decided by less than a second, get over it. Work on fitness and skill in slow-speed sections before you get a skinsuit. As someone said earlier, looking cool is way more important if you're not a world cup racer.

 

[Jm_]

I was reading a magazine w/ an article on Duncan Rifle's tuck, and the guys is very into it. He even rides on some aerodynamic leather shoes.
What about handlebars? Do you guys recommend some smaller, skinnier bars so there isn't much wind resistance?

Taking the visor off the helmet really helps? I heard about tights and all but not very sure if I should get a set.

No, not all of these things help. Some shapes that are "smooth" like cylinders and spheres can have a lot of drag due to the airflow seperating behind it, so "smoother" doesn't always mean less drag.

In some cases, rougher surfaces can cause the boundry layer airflow to be turbulant, and delay the seperation. That could cause less overall drag.

 

[Bicyclist]

No, not all of these things help. Some shapes that are "smooth" like cylinders and spheres can have a lot of drag due to the airflow seperating behind it, so "smoother" doesn't always mean less drag.

In some cases, rougher surfaces can cause the boundry layer airflow to be turbulant, and delay the seperation. That could cause less overall drag.

Yep. Lance's jersey was golf-ball patterned to reduce drag. There was a projected time savings of like 5 min. over the whole Tour. Most people never think of that, but it's the biggest factor in aerodynamics.

 

[zedro]

Yep. Lance's jersey was golf-ball patterned to reduce drag. There was a projected time savings of like 5 min. over the whole Tour. Most people never think of that, but it's the biggest factor in aerodynamics.

same deal with those new 'shark skin' bathing suits; those things smashed about every world record when introduced.

I wouldnt be wearing a big tarp to the races; face it, there is a point where you could create needless drag wearing the latest baggy fashions, but yeah a skin suit is pushing it the other way

 

[Transcend]

same deal with those new 'shark skin' bathing suits; those things smashed about every world record when introduced.

I wouldnt be wearing a big tarp to the races; face it, there is a point where you could create needless drag wearing the latest baggy fashions, but yeah a skin suit is pushing it the other way

Check out the speed skating suits. They use about 4 different materials, including an external elastic exo skeleton type thing on some of them to increase fast twitch muscle speed. It is ridiculous. The biathlon and XC guys also wear the weird exo suits.

 

[black noise]

Check out the speed skating suits. They use about 4 different materials, including an external elastic exo skeleton type thing on some of them to increase fast twitch muscle speed. It is ridiculous. The biathlon and XC guys also wear the weird exo suits.

Thats crazy... but when does it go from just clothing to machinery?

 

[zedro]

Thats crazy... but when does it go from just clothing to machinery?

when the cloathing becomes self-powered? I can picture the military comming up with movement amplifier garments to be able to endure carrying lots of gear.....oh wait i just saw that on Discovery....

 

[Jm_]

Yep. Lance's jersey was golf-ball patterned to reduce drag. There was a projected time savings of like 5 min. over the whole Tour. Most people never think of that, but it's the biggest factor in aerodynamics.

I know my aero. Laminar, turbulant, seperated. Profile drag, parasite drag, interfearance drag, induced drag. Lift equations, drag equations, etc.

It's funny when I see cars with "drag devices" like "wings" and other things, that might work at certain speeds to produce downforce, but can produce horrendous drag at slower speeds due to that seperated airflow.

 

[Alpha Kenny Body]

I was reading a magazine, somewhere. Dirt, MBUK, something like that.
Was an interview with one of the World Cup racers, once again I can't remember who.
Anyway, they said they did some timing and over one of the courses a skinsuit was about a 5 second advantage. This was a rider who doesn't wear skinsuits, I just can't remember who the hell it was.

I think it was Shawn (SP) Palmer, he said maybe it was a mistake to run with the baggy clothes instead of the spandex suit.

 

[DHCorky]

IIt's funny when I see cars with "drag devices" like "wings" and other things, that might work at certain speeds to produce downforce, but can produce horrendous drag at slower speeds due to that seperated airflow.

But those spoilers add horsepower so it makes up for the excess drag.

Wearing the tight spandex outfits can help but to how much effect is the big question. The guys wearing the GS suits ski racing in MI are fools do they really think they are saving time on a 30 second run?

This is something that needs considered like every upgrade. Is the lighter fork going to make you fast enough to justify the upgrade cost? Same goes for the spandex, part of the cost would be the fashion statement you make.

 

[sanjuro]

same deal with those new 'shark skin' bathing suits; those things smashed about every world record when introduced.

I wouldnt be wearing a big tarp to the races; face it, there is a point where you could create needless drag wearing the latest baggy fashions, but yeah a skin suit is pushing it the other way

I doubt aerodynamics make such a huge difference in a race where pedaling is almost secondary.

But not to use every advantage because you don't look cool is ridiculous.

 

[Alpha Kenny Body]

SF - Will you've riding Lycra or normal race kit in 2003, will you be signing up to the peaks on helmets rule again?

CG - I told Peat we should make a rule for the clothing too, no ****ing lycra anymore, we look like gays.

SF - What languages do you speak?

CG - Spanish, good French, bad French, really bad english and porno language in any language.

 

[Alpha Kenny Body]

sorry but here's a very good one:
SF - Rumours are rife, who will you be riding for in 2003, which co-sponsors?

CG - Right now, I ride whit my finger in my ass for 2003 because everybody are sheep !!!

 

[zedro]

I doubt aerodynamics make such a huge difference in a race where pedaling is almost secondary.

But not to use every advantage because you don't look cool is ridiculous.

well imagine the impact of a big puffy pirate shirt catching wind!

i'm thinking it could (maybe endurance wise) on real long and fast courses, but i think bulky cloathing wouldnt hamper more than just aero anyways.

 

[zedro]

It's funny when I see cars with "drag devices" like "wings" and other things, that might work at certain speeds to produce downforce, but can produce horrendous drag at slower speeds due to that seperated airflow.

or worse, lots of them actually produce lift instead. All those little import modders dont use wind tunnels, so they have no clue how it's working with the whole car in mind. It's practically pointless if you are not considering the airflow under the car, since thats how the downforce is actually produced....

wait were we talking about bike spoilers?

 

[Zutroy]

same deal with those new 'shark skin' bathing suits; those things smashed about every world record when introduced.

I wouldnt be wearing a big tarp to the races; face it, there is a point where you could create needless drag wearing the latest baggy fashions, but yeah a skin suit is pushing it the other way

Actually those things don't make a hill of difference it was a whole marketing gimic. The drag difference between a normal suit and one of superfabric ones it almost un measureable.

The world records got smashed A) cause the pool is one of the fastest ever built, and B) WR in swimming get broken in cycles and 96 was a "due" year for them to get broken.

It ranks up there with the dimples on a zipp when and the $1000 bearings you can get for them. The dimples don't do anything above 20mph and the bearings give you up to a whole whopping 1 watt over an normal bearing.

 

[HaveFaith]

or worse, lots of them actually produce lift instead. All those little import modders dont use wind tunnels, so they have no clue how it's working with the whole car in mind. It's practically pointless if you are not considering the airflow under the car, since thats how the downforce is actually produced....

wait were we talking about bike spoilers?

I may take offense to this, since my car is a 'little import tuner car' with a big 'wing'. However mine has been tuned in a wind tunnel to produce downforce and little drag. Plus, its made of CF goodness.

 

[sanjuro]

Actually those things don't make a hill of difference it was a whole marketing gimic. The drag difference between a normal suit and one of superfabric ones it almost un measureable.

The world records got smashed A) cause the pool is one of the fastest ever built, and B) WR in swimming get broken in cycles and 96 was a "due" year for them to get broken.

It ranks up there with the dimples on a zipp when and the $1000 bearings you can get for them. The dimples don't do anything above 20mph and the bearings give you up to a whole whopping 1 watt over an normal bearing.

Bullsh*t they don't.

1. Marketing gimmick? Tell me where one could buy a Nike Swift Spin Time Trial outfit, just like Lance uses in the Tour De France?

2. While aerodynamics might be secondary in downhill, it is the most important factor in time trialing next to power output.

A quote from the NY Times:

It is possible for the Nike Swift suit to trim as much as 90 seconds in a 34-mile time trial, said Rick MacDonald, one of the Swift Spin designers

3. Do you think Lance spent all that time in the wind tunnel because he thought it was just marketing?

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/19/sports/othersports/19LANC.html?ex=1397707200&en=5c5101cb385ad4a7&ei=5007&partner=USERLAND

 

[Transcend]

Bullsh*t they don't.

1. Marketing gimmick? Tell me where one could buy a Nike Swift Spin Time Trial outfit, just like Lance uses in the Tour De France?

2. While aerodynamics might be secondary in downhill, it is the most important factor in time trialing next to power output.

A quote from the NY Times:


3. Do you think Lance spent all that time in the wind tunnel because he thought it was just marketing?

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/19/sports/othersports/19LANC.html?ex=1397707200&en=5c5101cb385ad4a7&ei=5007&partner=USERLAND

I gotta agree with you. Those speedskating outfits WILL shave time over a 5km. They are all windtunnel tested, I watched an entire 2 hour long program on the development of them.

 

[The Kadvang]

Bullsh*t they don't.

1. Marketing gimmick? Tell me where one could buy a Nike Swift Spin Time Trial outfit, just like Lance uses in the Tour De France?

2. While aerodynamics might be secondary in downhill, it is the most important factor in time trialing next to power output.

A quote from the NY Times:


3. Do you think Lance spent all that time in the wind tunnel because he thought it was just marketing?

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/19/sports/othersports/19LANC.html?ex=1397707200&en=5c5101cb385ad4a7&ei=5007&partner=USERLAND

You obviously don't know too much about swimming... 90 seconds over 34 miles isnt **** in the majority of races... sure it makes a difference but not nearly as much as the pool...